UKM application experience and timeline

Triathlete · Post by **Triathlete** » Mon Nov 27, 2023 12:59 am

Any day now you will get an email with a letter appointment for Biometrics. After you go to the appointment and send in your documents what about 6 months. No further emails or notices. You will receive your documents and a response in about 6 months.

natkins · Post by **natkins** » Fri Dec 15, 2023 7:10 am

Greetings all,

After reading the many helpful posts here, I've been preparing for the UKM process for a while now, and thought I had everything lined up, including British referees. However, I've run into an unexpected snag with document notarization, and would appreciate comments from those of you who have been through this.

Brief background: my mother was born in the UK to British-citizen parents. I intend to send the British passport issued to her in the early 1960s (listing me as her child on it) as well as my original Canadian full birth certificate. I *had* also planned to provide certified copies of her UK birth certificate (fragile), my parents' UK marriage certificate (ditto), and my current passports, of which I need the originals for upcoming international travel. Unfortunately, the notaries I've so far consulted here in the state of New Mexico (USA) are not willing to certify photocopies of *any* official documents. I understand that birth and marriage certificates are technically government-issued copies of "vital records" and may have restrictions, but to my surprise they would not certify my own passport photocopies, either.

One of the notaries I spoke to referred to the Hague Convention of 1961, to which the UK, the US, and Canada are all signatories. But is the highly formalized "Apostilles and Authentication Certificate" agreement truly applicable in this context? The most the notaries would do is sign and stamp an affidavit saying that the copy I provided was a true copy of the original document I also presented. This *might* have been OK, except the notary who did that didn't state which document that was, and since the affidavit is on a separate page, I'm skeptical that would be acceptable in support of the UKM.

I'm a bit confused because numerous posts here indicate that the UK office which processes these registration applications has accepted certified/notarized copies of these documents. So if that worked for you, how did you handle this issue? Are there different types of notary in the US? Do I need to ask a lawyer who specializes in this? Or some other sort of official I should contact? Note that, except for my US passport, none of these are US-issued documents. If need be I'll provide originals of most things, but I cannot risk sending my real passports and not getting them back again for weeks or longer.

Thank you!

Triathlete · Post by **Triathlete** » Fri Dec 15, 2023 2:45 pm

Based on my experience:
1. Originals of birth certificates are useless. You need easily obtainable official copies. Contact the registrar of births and obtain official copies. Send either the originals or good color photo copies. British birth certificates are often easier to obtain than American or Canadian, but all can be obtained. You will probably have to prove your relationship to your mother to obtain hers. I received my grandfathers and grandmothers British and Irish birth certificates in less than 2 weeks from paying and applying for them. You need the full length official copy that lists both parents.
2. Same for passport. Color copies of all pages, including blank ones, front and back will suffice.
3. No need to have any of those notarized.

natkins · Post by **natkins** » Sat Dec 16, 2023 11:26 pm

Triathlete wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 15, 2023 2:45 pm
Based on my experience:
1. Originals of birth certificates are useless. You need easily obtainable official copies. [...] You need the full length official copy [of your own] that lists both parents.
2. Same for passport. Color copies of all pages, including blank ones, front and back will suffice.
3. No need to have any of those notarized.

Thank you so much for your quick response.

Sorry, when I said "original" birth and marriage certificates, I meant official ones issued decades ago by the UK records office, which I realize are technically copies certified by the government even though people mostly don't think of them that way. I do also have my own official full birth certificate, issued by the provincial government shortly after I was born there and showing both my parents' names.

Are these not the "official copies" you refer to?

I really appreciate hearing your experience that the passport copies don't need to be notarized. That would be a big relief. I've also found a post here from about a year ago which said that, in addition to a complete (uncertified?) photocopy of their current passport, they included the original of their most recently expired one. Maybe not necessary, but no harm? And no great loss if it comes to that.

Thanks again!

Triathlete · Post by **Triathlete** » Sun Dec 17, 2023 3:27 am

Don’t worry too much. If they need originals they will email you and tell you, but I had no issue with color photocopies. However, mine were new and recent. I recommend new and recent because they now use anti-counterfeit paper which they did not have 15 years ago. It is going to take just around 6 months anyway, so apply and send more documents later. They are really good at this. Just be patient and it will happen. Cheers.

natkins · Post by **natkins** » Tue Jan 09, 2024 11:43 pm

Submitted the online part and paid fee.

Re sending documents to the UKVI: I'm using FedEx from the US because one of the enclosed documents is irreplaceable (mother's expired British passport) and postal mail is generally less reliable than courier. The address I was given in my UKVI checklist is:

Department 265
UKVI
The Capital
New Hall Place
Liverpool
L3 9PP

However FedEx requires a telephone number for the recipient as well as for the sender, and none was provided. Does anyone know what number I should use for this purpose? The closest one I could find online was for the UKVI Liverpool "Premium Service Centre" (+44 333 344 5675). Is that a reasonable number to use? I would think there must be many deliveries there but I can't generate a shipping label without one.

At least one other person has noted that the above address was considered by the UK end of the courier service to be an "incomplete address". Any experience with that?

Thank you very much.

Triathlete · Post by **Triathlete** » Wed Jan 10, 2024 3:36 am

Sorry but you are over-worrying. Send it USPS, it will be fine. I sent mine no problem. Also old documents are more trouble than they are worth. I got new official copies from the UK in less than 2 weeks and they were perfectly fine.

Triathlete · Post by **Triathlete** » Wed Jan 10, 2024 5:17 am

You really only need good color photocopies without notarization. Just send them in. If they want originals they will ask. They will still make a decision within 6 months. They are very good at keeping the process moving. So do not sweat things. If the tired old documents you have don’t copy well, get new ones, they send them within a matter of days and you can order them online from the registry. good luck and cheers. You should have a decision by the 4th of July!

Triathlete · Post by **Triathlete** » Wed Jan 10, 2024 5:20 am

natkins wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 15, 2023 7:10 am
Greetings all,

After reading the many helpful posts here, I've been preparing for the UKM process for a while now, and thought I had everything lined up, including British referees. However, I've run into an unexpected snag with document notarization, and would appreciate comments from those of you who have been through this.

Brief background: my mother was born in the UK to British-citizen parents. I intend to send the British passport issued to her in the early 1960s (listing me as her child on it) as well as my original Canadian full birth certificate. I *had* also planned to provide certified copies of her UK birth certificate (fragile), my parents' UK marriage certificate (ditto), and my current passports, of which I need the originals for upcoming international travel. Unfortunately, the notaries I've so far consulted here in the state of New Mexico (USA) are not willing to certify photocopies of *any* official documents. I understand that birth and marriage certificates are technically government-issued copies of "vital records" and may have restrictions, but to my surprise they would not certify my own passport photocopies, either.

One of the notaries I spoke to referred to the Hague Convention of 1961, to which the UK, the US, and Canada are all signatories. But is the highly formalized "Apostilles and Authentication Certificate" agreement truly applicable in this context? The most the notaries would do is sign and stamp an affidavit saying that the copy I provided was a true copy of the original document I also presented. This *might* have been OK, except the notary who did that didn't state which document that was, and since the affidavit is on a separate page, I'm skeptical that would be acceptable in support of the UKM.

I'm a bit confused because numerous posts here indicate that the UK office which processes these registration applications has accepted certified/notarized copies of these documents. So if that worked for you, how did you handle this issue? Are there different types of notary in the US? Do I need to ask a lawyer who specializes in this? Or some other sort of official I should contact? Note that, except for my US passport, none of these are US-issued documents. If need be I'll provide originals of most things, but I cannot risk sending my real passports and not getting them back again for weeks or longer.

Thank you!

Also after reading your history, it would appear that you can apply for a passport directly. No need to do the UKM process. All you need is your mother’s birth certificate, color copies of her passport, your birth certificate, color copies of you passport and maybe your mother’s marriage certificate.
Since your mother was British, born in the UK, you are British. Ancestry by descent goes for one generation.

natkins · Post by **natkins** » Wed Jan 10, 2024 10:27 am

Thanks, I agree that USPS/Royal Mail are *mostly* fine, but more than one person has reported here that documents were lost that way. Commercial services tend to be more accountable. Also, I'm pretty sure that when I've sent stuff by USPS priority international, they likewise required a contact number for the recipient.

Unfortunately, there is no way I'm aware of to get a new official copy of a British passport that expired decades ago.

A record exists that it was issued, but it is not an actual copy.

I was born outside the UK before 1983. Even now, in these circumstances, British citizenship is only automatically recognized when it comes through your British father. My claim comes from my British mother. https://www.gov.uk/apply-citizenship-br ... efore-1983 So yes, I am eligible to claim it, but I have to go through the citizenship registration process before I can apply for a UK passport. They have fixed the criteria to *qualify* for citizenship by descent to come from either parent, but they have not fixed the differences in the process for demonstrating it to the Passport Office.

Triathlete · Post by **Triathlete** » Mon Jan 22, 2024 7:21 pm

My Journey
20-04-23 Application submitted online
03-05-23 Biometric Appointment Letter
15-05-23 Biometric Appointment (refused because I did not have passport-submitted with application)
24-05-23 Biometrics Completed
22-09-23 Date of Approval
13-10-23 Documents returned
06-12-23 Citizenship Ceremony (in person San Francisco consulate)
07-12-23 applied for passport online
13-12-23 Documents received
24-12-23 Requested another countersigner (1st was licensed contractor, they require white collar professional)
01-15-24 Passport received

I sent color copies of some documents (like passport) not certified or notarized. They were acceptable apparently. I had to send an additional document, Deed Post name change that they requested by email and I sent by mail. Process took 5 months for approval then a couple of months for passport.
Don’t sweat the details. Apply, they will tell you what documents to send once you apply (it is part of the form), send the documents, wait for Biometric appointment. Don’t worry if that takes 2-3 months. Biometrics approvals are pretty quick.
Wait for UKVI to contract you if you need additional documents, or they will send approval in the mail (via DHL in my case). Then you will get an email about citizenship ceremony. Then apply for passport. Passport is pretty quick if you apply on-line. It generally takes less than 15 days. Mine was longer due to holidays and need for another counter-signer.
Good luck and don’t worry. Don’t delay. You have about 6 months from when they receive your documents until you get notice. They are pretty on-time about it.

Suzy1969 · Post by **Suzy1969** » Tue Apr 23, 2024 5:03 pm

Hello,

I am wondering if anyone here can help me. Does anyone have contact name/email address for the Biometrics department? Reason being, I applied for citizenship via my british mother, mailed everything and then received a letter in the mail from John at the UK Nationality exceptions team at the Capital Building in Liverpool that my email address is bouncing. And that I need to email; UKNationalityAppointmentsUS@homeoffice.gov.uk to give them times for them to set up my Biometric appointment. Then they would email me back with a letter and time to go to my local App center office.

Its been a month and no word. Ive emailed them 2x now. Im going out of country for several weeks very soon and im afraid it will all expire. I tried calling 300 790 6268 but they just pass me around? I need to confirm that my email is working and that I can get a biometric letter quickly. If I have persons name or the phone number of the Biometric appointment setting department for out of country applicants thats be great. Or a better number to call for help. Thank you so much!

Triathlete · Post by **Triathlete** » Tue Apr 23, 2024 6:25 pm

I used:
NationalityBiometricsOverseas@homeoffice.gov.uk

But perhaps you should use a different email to send it just in case.
Do you have an appointment letter at all? My experience is that you can take the appointment letter for Biometrics to any USCIS service center and they can squeeze you in. If you don’t have an appointment letter yet don’t worry. You have plenty of time. Biometrics review takes only about a week or so in most cases and your case will not even be looked at until 5 months after they received your documents.
Email them and just wait. They really are good at getting it all done. Don’t worry. You have plenty of time.

Triathlete · Post by **Triathlete** » Tue Apr 23, 2024 6:27 pm

P.S. don’t call them. You’ll never get an answer. They use an off site service center and they don’t actually have any relationship to the Home Office. Just email and wait.

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UKM application experience and timeline

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