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UKM application experience and timeline

A section for posts relating to applications for Naturalisation or Registration as a British Citizen. Naturalisation

Moderators: Casa, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, meself2, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe

Ballet
Junior Member
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:08 am
South Africa

Re: UKM application experience and timeline

Post by Ballet » Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:43 am

jkproperties wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:40 pm
I have been stressing about deleting my junk mail and am taking extra care to double check everything.

Ok, I’m also in Johannesburg,
Is your booking in Fredman drv?

Best of luck.
The sender is MMST FCT Callnotes, which meant nothing to me and I’m not even sure what it stands for. I have seen others ask the question in other topics on this website but I haven’t seen any answers.

This email contains a pdf with your unique reference number which you need to book your appointment. The link in the letter is incomplete and for Johannesburg you should use this link:

https://hmpo.uk.tlsconnect.com/za/JNB/register.php

From here you can select to make an appointment for biometric enrolment as an overseas citizen. Appointments are available daily at 10h00 and 11h00. They are at the Fredman Drive centre.

Good luck! I hope your email comes through soon.

Ballet
Junior Member
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:08 am
South Africa

Re: UKM application experience and timeline

Post by Ballet » Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:22 am


JeanieW
Newly Registered
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2019 4:24 pm
South Africa

Re: UKM application experience and timeline

Post by JeanieW » Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:41 pm

Eligibility Criteria: UKM double descent through Romein
Nationality: South African
Applying from: South Africa
Method of Application: agency
Application sent to UK agency: 26/2/19 (DHL)
Application posted to HO: 01/03/2019
Date of acknowledgement email: 04/03/19
Email requesting biometrics: 07/03/19
Biometrics done: 29/03/19 (Trying to make an appointment with TLS was hopeless - I eventually popped in at Menlyn offices to physically make the appt, and they did the biometrics straight away)
Date of approval letter: 29/4/19 (posted to the agency, and emailed to me)
Date of ceremony: pending
I’m a bit nervous about the correspondence regarding the ceremony. If they post it to me I might never get it - the postal service is shocking. The agency said I would be contacted directly.

jkproperties
Member
Posts: 150
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:15 pm

Re: UKM application experience and timeline

Post by jkproperties » Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:56 pm

Thank you so much for the information.
Have a great day,
Ballet wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:43 am
jkproperties wrote:
Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:40 pm
I have been stressing about deleting my junk mail and am taking extra care to double check everything.

Ok, I’m also in Johannesburg,
Is your booking in Fredman drv?

Best of luck.
The sender is MMST FCT Callnotes, which meant nothing to me and I’m not even sure what it stands for. I have seen others ask the question in other topics on this website but I haven’t seen any answers.

This email contains a pdf with your unique reference number which you need to book your appointment. The link in the letter is incomplete and for Johannesburg you should use this link:

https://hmpo.uk.tlsconnect.com/za/JNB/register.php

From here you can select to make an appointment for biometric enrolment as an overseas citizen. Appointments are available daily at 10h00 and 11h00. They are at the Fredman Drive centre.

Good luck! I hope your email comes through soon.

pblackman
Newly Registered
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:20 pm
Brazil

Re: UKM application experience and timeline

Post by pblackman » Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:44 pm

Dear all,

I´ve been going through almost all messages in this forum, which is an amazing source of information. I believe I may apply for British citizenship through the UKM route, as a person born before 1983 to a British mother.
I was born in 1972 in Brazil to a British mother who was born in 1948 also in Brazil and registered in the British consulate.
The national status in her UK passport is "British Citizen".
Her father was also born in Brazil and registered in the British consulate, and his national status in his UK passport is "British subject by Birth".
Her paternal grandfather was born in Kent, UK.
Please let me know your opinion on this matter.
Thanks

jellybean19
Newbie
Posts: 36
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2019 2:39 pm

Re: UKM application experience and timeline

Post by jellybean19 » Fri Jun 07, 2019 12:41 pm

keh723 wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:31 am
***Update***
I’m officially a British citizen!!! My sister and I had our ceremony together this morning in Atlanta. It was wonderful. Very intimate and emotional. My family was there to witness this lovely event. So incredibly happy!!

Eligibility criteria: UKM ( By descent )
Nationality: American
Applying from: US
Method of application: Paperform
Date sent to UKVI - 1/24 USPS Priority Intl
UKVI in Liverpool received my Form & Docs - 2/1
Payment method: Debit Card
Date of fee debit: 2/11
Email with case number : 2/12
Date of acknowledgement by email : 2/12
Date of email requesting biometrics: 2/11
Biometrics done: 2/27
Date of approval: 3/12/19
Ceremony Invite received: 5/1/19
Date of ceremony: 5/31/19
Date applied for passports: ASAP 🇬🇧
Aww, Congratulations to you and your sister. I dropped in to see if you'd updated us. So,pleased to see you have. It's such a emotional day isn't it. Over in the UK you can only have two people with you for the ceremony due to space. Wait til you get your passport, I kept looking at mine for first week before I put it away. I've booked a holiday and will be filling in my API details with my British passport details . No landing card for me. Anyway, congrats to you both x

jkproperties
Member
Posts: 150
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:15 pm

Re: UKM application experience and timeline

Post by jkproperties » Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:29 pm

This thread is for Timelines only,
Maybe start a new thread?
Or check the U.K. website.
pblackman wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:44 pm
Dear all,

I´ve been going through almost all messages in this forum, which is an amazing source of information. I believe I may apply for British citizenship through the UKM route, as a person born before 1983 to a British mother.
I was born in 1972 in Brazil to a British mother who was born in 1948 also in Brazil and registered in the British consulate.
The national status in her UK passport is "British Citizen".
Her father was also born in Brazil and registered in the British consulate, and his national status in his UK passport is "British subject by Birth".
Her paternal grandfather was born in Kent, UK.
Please let me know your opinion on this matter.
Thanks

pblackman
Newly Registered
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:20 pm
Brazil

Re: UKM application experience and timeline

Post by pblackman » Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:40 pm

Hi jkproperties, thanks for your answer.

However, it´s a bit surprising, as I can see in this same thread several similar questions from other users which were replied as well - including some discussions on Romein´s case.
I don´t understand why my question would be treated differently.

Thanks
jkproperties wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:29 pm
This thread is for Timelines only,
Maybe start a new thread?
Or check the U.K. website.
pblackman wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:44 pm
Dear all,

I´ve been going through almost all messages in this forum, which is an amazing source of information. I believe I may apply for British citizenship through the UKM route, as a person born before 1983 to a British mother.
I was born in 1972 in Brazil to a British mother who was born in 1948 also in Brazil and registered in the British consulate.
The national status in her UK passport is "British Citizen".
Her father was also born in Brazil and registered in the British consulate, and his national status in his UK passport is "British subject by Birth".
Her paternal grandfather was born in Kent, UK.
Please let me know your opinion on this matter.
Thanks

bletchlypark
Junior Member
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:48 pm
United States of America

Re: UKM application experience and timeline

Post by bletchlypark » Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:50 pm

pblackman wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:44 pm
Dear all,

I´ve been going through almost all messages in this forum, which is an amazing source of information. I believe I may apply for British citizenship through the UKM route, as a person born before 1983 to a British mother.
I was born in 1972 in Brazil to a British mother who was born in 1948 also in Brazil and registered in the British consulate.
The national status in her UK passport is "British Citizen".
Her father was also born in Brazil and registered in the British consulate, and his national status in his UK passport is "British subject by Birth".
Her paternal grandfather was born in Kent, UK.
Please let me know your opinion on this matter.
Thanks
So your mother was born a British citizen. I think you are going to have to find the record of overseas births to prove that, aside from that it seems you have a good UKM case. Have you read this? https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... de_UKM.pdf

Ballet
Junior Member
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:08 am
South Africa

Re: UKM application experience and timeline

Post by Ballet » Sat Jun 08, 2019 6:45 am

jellybean19 wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 12:41 pm
Aww, Congratulations to you and your sister. I dropped in to see if you'd updated us. So,pleased to see you have. It's such a emotional day isn't it. Over in the UK you can only have two people with you for the ceremony due to space. Wait til you get your passport, I kept looking at mine for first week before I put it away. I've booked a holiday and will be filling in my API details with my British passport details . No landing card for me. Anyway, congrats to you both x
I was also looking forward to not having to fill in a landing card but that day came before citizenship! There is no longer a requirement for them; I had to fill one in in March but this requirement stopped between then and the middle of May when I took my last trip.

pblackman
Newly Registered
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:20 pm
Brazil

Re: UKM application experience and timeline

Post by pblackman » Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:22 pm

Hi bletchlypark. I've read the UKM guide. It seems that I meet the requirements. I've requested on GRO site new copies of both my mother and my grandfather birth certificates since the original ones didn't have a registration number. I received them this week. I also have their original (expired) UK passports. I still haven´t decided whether I will use an advisor or not. And there is also the problem of finding the two referees.
bletchlypark wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:50 pm
pblackman wrote:
Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:44 pm
Dear all,

I´ve been going through almost all messages in this forum, which is an amazing source of information. I believe I may apply for British citizenship through the UKM route, as a person born before 1983 to a British mother.
I was born in 1972 in Brazil to a British mother who was born in 1948 also in Brazil and registered in the British consulate.
The national status in her UK passport is "British Citizen".
Her father was also born in Brazil and registered in the British consulate, and his national status in his UK passport is "British subject by Birth".
Her paternal grandfather was born in Kent, UK.
Please let me know your opinion on this matter.
Thanks
So your mother was born a British citizen. I think you are going to have to find the record of overseas births to prove that, aside from that it seems you have a good UKM case. Have you read this? https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... de_UKM.pdf

bletchlypark
Junior Member
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:48 pm
United States of America

Re: UKM application experience and timeline

Post by bletchlypark » Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:05 pm

pblackman wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:22 pm
Hi bletchlypark. I've read the UKM guide. It seems that I meet the requirements. I've requested on GRO site new copies of both my mother and my grandfather birth certificates since the original ones didn't have a registration number. I received them this week. I also have their original (expired) UK passports. I still haven´t decided whether I will use an advisor or not. And there is also the problem of finding the two referees.
If you have a clear UKM case I don't think you need to use a solicitor. Sounds like you are making good progress already. Just make sure you read all the questions carefully and provide everything they need. If you don't know a British citizen who qualifies you can use two others, one of them has to qualify as a professional. I used two US citizens for my application.

pblackman
Newly Registered
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:20 pm
Brazil

Re: UKM application experience and timeline

Post by pblackman » Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:18 pm

I´m still not sure if I´m eligible. My mother, although born in Brazil, has a "British citizen" passport issued in 1984. Probably she was considered a CUKC with Right of Abode on Dec 31 1982, and so was given that status (she never lived in the UK).

The problem is that my grandfather was also born in Brazil. I believe my only hope is related to the Romein decision. I´ve read somewhere in this forum that The Court ruled that as there would be no evidence of registration attempt, all children of British citizen by descent mothers are eligible for registration using Form UKM. That´s the enigma I need to solve.

I don´t want to disturb this forum, please let me know if I´m in the right topic or should I post the details on a new thread.
Thanks!

bletchlypark wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:05 pm
pblackman wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:22 pm
Hi bletchlypark. I've read the UKM guide. It seems that I meet the requirements. I've requested on GRO site new copies of both my mother and my grandfather birth certificates since the original ones didn't have a registration number. I received them this week. I also have their original (expired) UK passports. I still haven´t decided whether I will use an advisor or not. And there is also the problem of finding the two referees.
If you have a clear UKM case I don't think you need to use a solicitor. Sounds like you are making good progress already. Just make sure you read all the questions carefully and provide everything they need. If you don't know a British citizen who qualifies you can use two others, one of them has to qualify as a professional. I used two US citizens for my application.

jkproperties
Member
Posts: 150
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:15 pm

Re: UKM application experience and timeline

Post by jkproperties » Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:13 pm

I have already told you you are posting in the wrong place, I don't think the admin members monitor this thread as it is only for information on timelines.

As far as I understand the Romein requires that your grandfather needs to have been born in the UK, start a new thread and ask your question you will have far more replies that way.

The only people that come into this thread are people that are going through the process or are about to, I don't think any of us have the knowledge or experience to guide you, as there are so many differences to our circumstances, My Grand Parents and my mother was born in the UK, also there are different options for people in my country as far as I understand.

Do yourself a favour and listen to the advice I gave you on Friday, start a new thread, you would have had an answer to your question by now.
pblackman wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:18 pm
I´m still not sure if I´m eligible. My mother, although born in Brazil, has a "British citizen" passport issued in 1984. Probably she was considered a CUKC with Right of Abode on Dec 31 1982, and so was given that status (she never lived in the UK).

The problem is that my grandfather was also born in Brazil. I believe my only hope is related to the Romein decision. I´ve read somewhere in this forum that The Court ruled that as there would be no evidence of registration attempt, all children of British citizen by descent mothers are eligible for registration using Form UKM. That´s the enigma I need to solve.

I don´t want to disturb this forum, please let me know if I´m in the right topic or should I post the details on a new thread.
Thanks!

bletchlypark wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:05 pm
pblackman wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:22 pm
Hi bletchlypark. I've read the UKM guide. It seems that I meet the requirements. I've requested on GRO site new copies of both my mother and my grandfather birth certificates since the original ones didn't have a registration number. I received them this week. I also have their original (expired) UK passports. I still haven´t decided whether I will use an advisor or not. And there is also the problem of finding the two referees.
If you have a clear UKM case I don't think you need to use a solicitor. Sounds like you are making good progress already. Just make sure you read all the questions carefully and provide everything they need. If you don't know a British citizen who qualifies you can use two others, one of them has to qualify as a professional. I used two US citizens for my application.

bletchlypark
Junior Member
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:48 pm
United States of America

Re: UKM application experience and timeline

Post by bletchlypark » Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:22 pm

pblackman wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:18 pm
I´m still not sure if I´m eligible. My mother, although born in Brazil, has a "British citizen" passport issued in 1984. Probably she was considered a CUKC with Right of Abode on Dec 31 1982, and so was given that status (she never lived in the UK).

The problem is that my grandfather was also born in Brazil. I believe my only hope is related to the Romein decision. I´ve read somewhere in this forum that The Court ruled that as there would be no evidence of registration attempt, all children of British citizen by descent mothers are eligible for registration using Form UKM. That´s the enigma I need to solve.

I don´t want to disturb this forum, please let me know if I´m in the right topic or should I post the details on a new thread.
Thanks!
I think you can feel free to talk about your process here. But this is mostly a thread for those who have applied already and want to discuss their timelines. If you are going with a Romein case and not a clear cut UKM case then I would recommend hiring someone to help you with the process.

There might be another thread where Romein is specifically discussed in detail. I am not sure as I had a clear case (Mum born UK Citizen).

Conky2a
Junior Member
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:47 pm
Mood:

Re: UKM application experience and timeline

Post by Conky2a » Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:16 pm

bletchlypark wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:22 pm
pblackman wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:18 pm
I´m still not sure if I´m eligible. My mother, although born in Brazil, has a "British citizen" passport issued in 1984. Probably she was considered a CUKC with Right of Abode on Dec 31 1982, and so was given that status (she never lived in the UK).

The problem is that my grandfather was also born in Brazil. I believe my only hope is related to the Romein decision. I´ve read somewhere in this forum that The Court ruled that as there would be no evidence of registration attempt, all children of British citizen by descent mothers are eligible for registration using Form UKM. That´s the enigma I need to solve.

I don´t want to disturb this forum, please let me know if I´m in the right topic or should I post the details on a new thread.
Thanks!
I think you can feel free to talk about your process here. But this is mostly a thread for those who have applied already and want to discuss their timelines. If you are going with a Romein case and not a clear cut UKM case then I would recommend hiring someone to help you with the process.

There might be another thread where Romein is specifically discussed in detail. I am not sure as I had a clear case (Mum born UK Citizen).
Here is one such thread, but i think best you start a new one....

british-citizenship/ukm-application-rom ... 63617.html

sunburn
Member
Posts: 172
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:50 pm
United States of America

Re: UKM application experience and timeline

Post by sunburn » Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:11 am

pblackman wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:22 pm
Hi bletchlypark. I've read the UKM guide. It seems that I meet the requirements. I've requested on GRO site new copies of both my mother and my grandfather birth certificates since the original ones didn't have a registration number. I received them this week. I also have their original (expired) UK passports. I still haven´t decided whether I will use an advisor or not. And there is also the problem of finding the two referees.
Here is the Guide UKM link. Please describe which permutation of four required conditions you meet. For simplicity, they are:
1. Must be born before 1983: True
2. Would have been a CUKC by descent if women could pass their citizenship the same way as men: To be determined
3. You have right of abode at birth because of one of four listed conditions: To be determined
4. Are of good moral character: Assume true

For (2), the next page offers conditions:
2.a.1) Was your mother born, adopted, naturalized or registered in the UK ? No
2.a.2) a British subject before 1949, and born within some form of British territory ? No, Brazil wasn't British territory
2.b.1 you were born, or your mother was born, in a British protectorate, protected state, mandated territory or trust territory or in any foreign place in which British subjects came under British extraterritorial jurisdiction: No
2.b.2) you were born in a non-Commonwealth country and your birth was registered, within one year of its occurrence, at a British consulate : Depends - were you registered within one year of birth ?
2.b.3) your mother was in Crown service under the United Kingdom government at
the time of your birth: Was she ?
2.b.4) you were born in Ceylon/Sri Lanka.No

For 3:
* your mother was, at the time of your birth, a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by birth, legal adoption, naturalisation or registration* in the United Kingdom, Channel Islands or Isle of Man: No, she was registered in Brazil
* one of your mother’s parents (the definition of “parent” here excludes the father, but includes the mother, of an illegitimate child) was a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by birth, legal adoption, naturalisation or registration* in the United Kingdom, Channel Islands or Isle of Man at the time of her birth, or No, your maternal grandfather is Brazilian born
* one of your father’s parents (the definition of “father” and “parent” excludes the father of an illegitimate child) was a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by birth, legal adoption, naturalisation or registration* in the United Kingdom, Channel Islands or Isle of Man at the time of his birth, We don't know of father's side of family, but assume no
* you were resident in the United Kingdom for a continuous period of 5 years before1983 and had become settled in the United Kingdom by the end of that 5 year period, or Were you ?
* you are a woman who, before 1 January 1983, was or had been married to a man with the right of abode in the United Kingdom: No, you'd be 11 then

So it's clear that we can't answer you question for you. However, you can, by answering the above.

pblackman
Newly Registered
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:20 pm
Brazil

Re: UKM application experience and timeline

Post by pblackman » Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:04 am

Hi, sunburn,

Thanks for your time detailing guide UKM requirements. I know it may sound silly at first to consider that I'm eligible, but allow me to explain why I believe I have a valid claim:

My grandfather was born in 1920 when the British Nationality and Status of Aliens Act 1914 (amended in 1918) was in force. He was considered a "natural-born British subject" under section 1(b)i and v.

My mother was registered under section 1(2)(b) of the British Act 1943. In 1984 she requested a British passport and got one with "British Citizen" status (not "British Overseas" or else).
She is a British Citizen by descent and it´s reasonable to infer that she got that status because my grandfather was considered a CUKC by birth.

Last, my birth wasn´t registered but AFAIU the Romein case created jurisprudence on such situations where the mother wasn't able to register her son because it wasn´t possible by the time Act 1948 was in force. "The solution is to treat the registration condition in section 5(1)(b) as inapplicable in applications for citizenship by descent from the mother" - quote from the Romein case press summary.

Once again, thanks for your time helping me with this matter.
sunburn wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:11 am
pblackman wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:22 pm
Hi bletchlypark. I've read the UKM guide. It seems that I meet the requirements. I've requested on GRO site new copies of both my mother and my grandfather birth certificates since the original ones didn't have a registration number. I received them this week. I also have their original (expired) UK passports. I still haven´t decided whether I will use an advisor or not. And there is also the problem of finding the two referees.
Here is the Guide UKM link. Please describe which permutation of four required conditions you meet. For simplicity, they are:
1. Must be born before 1983: True
2. Would have been a CUKC by descent if women could pass their citizenship the same way as men: To be determined
3. You have right of abode at birth because of one of four listed conditions: To be determined
4. Are of good moral character: Assume true

For (2), the next page offers conditions:
2.a.1) Was your mother born, adopted, naturalized or registered in the UK ? No
2.a.2) a British subject before 1949, and born within some form of British territory ? No, Brazil wasn't British territory
2.b.1 you were born, or your mother was born, in a British protectorate, protected state, mandated territory or trust territory or in any foreign place in which British subjects came under British extraterritorial jurisdiction: No
2.b.2) you were born in a non-Commonwealth country and your birth was registered, within one year of its occurrence, at a British consulate : Depends - were you registered within one year of birth ?
2.b.3) your mother was in Crown service under the United Kingdom government at
the time of your birth: Was she ?
2.b.4) you were born in Ceylon/Sri Lanka.No

For 3:
* your mother was, at the time of your birth, a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by birth, legal adoption, naturalisation or registration* in the United Kingdom, Channel Islands or Isle of Man: No, she was registered in Brazil
* one of your mother’s parents (the definition of “parent” here excludes the father, but includes the mother, of an illegitimate child) was a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by birth, legal adoption, naturalisation or registration* in the United Kingdom, Channel Islands or Isle of Man at the time of her birth, or No, your maternal grandfather is Brazilian born
* one of your father’s parents (the definition of “father” and “parent” excludes the father of an illegitimate child) was a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by birth, legal adoption, naturalisation or registration* in the United Kingdom, Channel Islands or Isle of Man at the time of his birth, We don't know of father's side of family, but assume no
* you were resident in the United Kingdom for a continuous period of 5 years before1983 and had become settled in the United Kingdom by the end of that 5 year period, or Were you ?
* you are a woman who, before 1 January 1983, was or had been married to a man with the right of abode in the United Kingdom: No, you'd be 11 then

So it's clear that we can't answer you question for you. However, you can, by answering the above.

sunburn
Member
Posts: 172
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:50 pm
United States of America

Re: UKM application experience and timeline

Post by sunburn » Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:44 am

You’re asking about qualification under Form UKM guidelines . This is a restrictive basis under which citizenship by descent is granted through registration only if certain clearly laid out conditions are met . I’ve listed all of them in my previous post . The latest Guide UKM as far as I know holds amendments for the Romein case .

You will have to answer all ambiguous points with supporting case law . None of us can do it for you since there are several pieces of information missing in your description.

Prior to 1948, there was no British citizenship as such - everyone in the colonies or born to British subject father was a British subject. However British nationality law in general does not grant British citizenship by descent to more than one generation born abroad - you are a second generation.

You haven’t answered any questions about your mothers or your residency in UK . During which periods were each of you resident in UK prior to 1983 ? Her obtaining BC rather than BOC does not prove that she (or you) had right of abode at the time of your birth. Her status in 1984 doesn’t prove her status in 1972.

Therefore please try to answer every condition in the Guide UKM checklist explicitly .

Conky2a
Junior Member
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:47 pm
Mood:

Re: UKM application experience and timeline

Post by Conky2a » Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:25 am

sunburn wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:44 am
You’re asking about qualification under Form UKM guidelines . This is a restrictive basis under which citizenship by descent is granted through registration only if certain clearly laid out conditions are met . I’ve listed all of them in my previous post . The latest Guide UKM as far as I know holds amendments for the Romein case .

You will have to answer all ambiguous points with supporting case law . None of us can do it for you since there are several pieces of information missing in your description.

Prior to 1948, there was no British citizenship as such - everyone in the colonies or born to British subject father was a British subject. However British nationality law in general does not grant British citizenship by descent to more than one generation born abroad - you are a second generation.

You haven’t answered any questions about your mothers or your residency in UK . During which periods were each of you resident in UK prior to 1983 ? Her obtaining BC rather than BOC does not prove that she (or you) had right of abode at the time of your birth. Her status in 1984 doesn’t prove her status in 1972.

Therefore please try to answer every condition in the Guide UKM checklist explicitly .
Hi sunburn,

According to pblackman’s post of 10 june, his mother never lived in the UK.....

pblackman
Newly Registered
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:20 pm
Brazil

Re: UKM application experience and timeline

Post by pblackman » Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:44 am

Conky2a wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:25 am
sunburn wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:44 am
You’re asking about qualification under Form UKM guidelines . This is a restrictive basis under which citizenship by descent is granted through registration only if certain clearly laid out conditions are met . I’ve listed all of them in my previous post . The latest Guide UKM as far as I know holds amendments for the Romein case .

You will have to answer all ambiguous points with supporting case law . None of us can do it for you since there are several pieces of information missing in your description.

Prior to 1948, there was no British citizenship as such - everyone in the colonies or born to British subject father was a British subject. However British nationality law in general does not grant British citizenship by descent to more than one generation born abroad - you are a second generation.

You haven’t answered any questions about your mothers or your residency in UK . During which periods were each of you resident in UK prior to 1983 ? Her obtaining BC rather than BOC does not prove that she (or you) had right of abode at the time of your birth. Her status in 1984 doesn’t prove her status in 1972.

Therefore please try to answer every condition in the Guide UKM checklist explicitly .
Hi sunburn,

According to pblackman’s post of 10 june, his mother never lived in the UK.....
Right. The remaining answers are:
- My mother wasn´t in Crown service under the UK government at any time
- I was not resident in the UK for a continuous period of 5 years before 1983
- I wasn´t registered within one year of birth

My mother, in fact, was the 2nd generation born abroad. So she wasn´t supposed to receive a "British Citizen" passport in 1984, unless his father was considered British other than through descent at that time. That´s why i believed I had a chance.

sunburn
Member
Posts: 172
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:50 pm
United States of America

Re: UKM application experience and timeline

Post by sunburn » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:29 pm

The Romein case is difficult to use in this context because pblackman is the third generation born abroad. While it is true that prior to BNA 1949, everyone born within British colonies and UK mainland were considered British subjects, it is not true to say that this means such people were considered as natural born citizens; INA 1971 later defined the concept of patriality or right of abode, based upon direct ties to the UK from one or at most two generations. Without this, upwards of a billion people would have right to British citizenship due to a British subject grandparent.

For example, the standard UKM case is one where a person is born abroad to a mother born in UK (I fell under this). The Romein case applies where the mother is foreign born, but to UK-born grandparents were able to register the mother, who subsequently could not pass citizenship forward as she was therefore a citizen by descent. Ms Romein's maternal grandparents were both UK born.

In pblackman's case, the applicant is the third generation born abroad. British citizenship historically has not been accorded to a third generation born outside UK, whether by UKM route or any other. I've personally never seen such a case - UK nationality law expects successive generations to take on the nationality of the land they live in.

UKM has two distinct requirements:
* Prove applicant eligibility through the maternal line
* Prove applicant right of abode
These are not the same, and more importantly, just because the parent had right of abode, it doesn't immediately follow that it could be passed to the applicant at the time of the applicant's birth.

The concept of descent and otherwise than by descent, did not exist at the time of the applicant's grandfather's birth. The Form UKM doesn't distinguish this either - it does specifically ask if the mother or the grandfather was born/naturalized/registed in the UK.

pblackman
Newly Registered
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:20 pm
Brazil

Re: UKM application experience and timeline

Post by pblackman » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:49 pm

sunburn wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:29 pm
The Romein case is difficult to use in this context because pblackman is the third generation born abroad. While it is true that prior to BNA 1949, everyone born within British colonies and UK mainland were considered British subjects, it is not true to say that this means such people were considered as natural born citizens; INA 1971 later defined the concept of patriality or right of abode, based upon direct ties to the UK from one or at most two generations. Without this, upwards of a billion people would have right to British citizenship due to a British subject grandparent.

For example, the standard UKM case is one where a person is born abroad to a mother born in UK (I fell under this). The Romein case applies where the mother is foreign born, but to UK-born grandparents were able to register the mother, who subsequently could not pass citizenship forward as she was therefore a citizen by descent. Ms Romein's maternal grandparents were both UK born.

In pblackman's case, the applicant is the third generation born abroad. British citizenship historically has not been accorded to a third generation born outside UK, whether by UKM route or any other. I've personally never seen such a case - UK nationality law expects successive generations to take on the nationality of the land they live in.

UKM has two distinct requirements:
* Prove applicant eligibility through the maternal line
* Prove applicant right of abode
These are not the same, and more importantly, just because the parent had right of abode, it doesn't immediately follow that it could be passed to the applicant at the time of the applicant's birth.

The concept of descent and otherwise than by descent, did not exist at the time of the applicant's grandfather's birth. The Form UKM doesn't distinguish this either - it does specifically ask if the mother or the grandfather was born/naturalized/registed in the UK.
It seems I incorrectly assumed that being "British subject by birth" (my grandfather status in 1944) would mean he was a CUKC by birth in 1948, whether or not he was actually born in England.
Thanks again for your time.

Ballet
Junior Member
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:08 am
South Africa

Re: UKM application experience and timeline

Post by Ballet » Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:38 am

Update:

Eligibility criteria: UKM
Nationality: South African
Applying from: South Africa
Method of application: Online
Date of application: 8 March 2019
Payment method: Credit card (8 March 2019)
Date of acknowledgement: 11 March 2019
Documents sent by courier: 11 March 2019
Date of receipt by UKVI (DHL notified): 14 March 2019
Date of biometric appt invitation: 4 June 2019
Date of biometrics appt confirmation: 5 June 2019
Biometrics done: 6 June 2019
Application to retain SA citizenship: 14 June 2019 (advised to return in 4 weeks)
SA citizenship retention granted by DHA:
Date of UK citizenship approval:
Date of ceremony:
Date applied for passport:
Passport Application received:
Passport Application Marked Dispatched:
Date passport received:

allthemadmen
Newly Registered
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:26 pm

Re: UKM application experience and timeline

Post by allthemadmen » Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:45 am

Update!

Eligibility criteria: UKM (Born in the US to British mother in 1973)
Nationality: United States
Applying from: Unites States
Method of application: online
Date of application: 22nd October 2018
Payment method: Credit card
Date of receipt by UKVI: (Documents received by UPS) 12th November 2018
Date money gone off account: 22nd October 2018
Date of acknowledgement: 22nd October 2018 (email)
Date of biometric appt. invitation: 4th December 2018 (email)
Date biometrics appt confirmation: 7th December 2018 (email)
Biometrics done: 19th December 2018
Date of approval: 5th March 2019 (postal mail, registered, with documents)
Date of ceremony: 8th May, 2019. Invitation received by email 29th April.
Date applied for passports: Online, 2nd June 2019. Plan to send documents in coming days (single confirmation of identity required). Application and payment confirmed by email immediately.
Various emails regarding receipt of documents: June 2nd, June 4th, June 13th (sent UPS overnight), Approval email June 14th.
Date passports received: Scheduled for June 19th (DHL, documents also in separate package).
An email, "SIGN YOUR PASSPORT" arrived June 18th :)

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