UKM Eligibility

Original .....
I have her birth certification registration from Kenya,Nakuru

and

British Passport showing "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northens Ireland"

This is in INDIA with her .I have only copies.

vinny wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 27, 2020 4:05 pm

Probably sequential, if the same original documents are submitted to different places.

I'd suggest applying for Form NS first, because that will tell whether or not the mother can apply for CoE-RoA at all.

mslibraoctww wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 27, 2020 5:18 pm

Original .....
I have her birth certification registration from Kenya,Nakuru

and

British Passport showing "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northens Ireland"

This is in INDIA with her .I have only copies.

You'd want both that and the documentation proof of your grandparents registering in the UK, your mother's stay in the UK between 1967 and 1970, etc. You'd want to build up the case for her possibly having RoA (though, as I have advised earlier, I do not see any evidence of the same).

Without RoA, she can only apply for a BOC passport. You might as well as save on the cost of a Form NS (£250; the fees for a CoE-RoA are £372 and the fees for a British passport are ~£100 - £75.50 for the passport and £19.95 for submitting biometrics).

Here is a useful thread on another forum that has images of British passports issued to British nationals, including British citizens. The main (and mostly only) difference generally is the Category "Nationality" on the first page of the passport.

But that can impact the visa status of the individual. For instance, BOCs require visas to travel to both the UK and the US, while British citizens can apply for an ESTA to travel to the US.

Also see "Nationality Classes" on the right-hand side of the Wikipedia page on British Nationality Law.

As you are in the US and your mother is planning to travel there anyway, you can ask her to bring the original documents along with her.

@secret.simon

I checked the images .Her's was issued in 1970 and were handwritten then. But Yes, under Nationality field rubber stamp shows "British Subject: Citizen of United Kingdom and Colonies". I am sure if she would have renewed in 1980 , i would know what nationality status actually she had that time.

She can't travel to US without a passport ,so i am here looking for answers to start the process. I would definitely want to know firstly what type of nationality status she gonna have on her british passport to avoid any problems she might have after having british overseas passport.

mslibraoctww wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:52 pm

She can't travel to US without a passport

Does she not have any other passport (of any other country) at the moment?

mslibraoctww wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:52 pm

I would definitely want to know firstly what type of nationality status she gonna have on her british passport to avoid any problems she might have after having british overseas passport.

She would have had CUKC status till 1982, because British nationality classes only changed on 1st January 1983.

Yes, She dint make any as she never renounced british citizenship. She has a valid card to stay in India. But now we need her passport for travel reasons.

So she hasn't claimed Indian citizenship? If so, what is the basis for her residence in India? OCI? Doesn't that require a foreign passport?

I am just trying to understand her situation, because as I mentioned, if she is granted a BOC passport, that may impact her right to reside in India as well. And she will have no right to reside in the UK.

She may be, in the grand scheme of things, be better off applying for an Indian passport if she is entitled to one and travel on that.

She has a national card on basis of marriage to my dad. All indians don't make passport:)

be better off applying for an Indian passport if she is entitled to one and travel on that.

so she shouldn't try UK passport ?

Think the consequences through.

Prima facie, she has the right to a BOC passport and will likely get it if she applies for it.

However, as I mentioned earlier, if she gets a BOC passport, she will not have the right to reside in the UK. India may not allow her back there without an Indian visa or Indian passport.

A lot depends on what is the basis of her residence in India. Has she taken up Indian citizenship based on a spousal connection? Is she on an Indian visa? If so, what passport was that visa given on?

The long and short of it is that she will get a BOC passport if she applies for one, but then she may be homeless. She needs to decide where she is going to go after her trip to the US and tell us what her precise personal circumstances (such as right to reside in India) are for us to guide you and her any further.

Thanks for wider pic. Now i really need a lawyer i guess.

mslibraoctww wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:35 am

Thanks for wider pic. Now i really need a lawyer i guess.

More than a lawyer, you need a precise understanding of your mother's right to reside in India.

And as for a lawyer, you likely need an Indian lawyer more than a British lawyer.

As I mentioned earlier, she has a right to a BOC passport. But that right conflicts with Indian law. It is her choice as to whether to exercise that right and face the consequences under Indian law or whether to not exercise that right at all.

yup. Thanks. i will look into this.

SO UKM requirement:

You will be entitled to registration if you meet all of these requirements:
1• you were born before 1 January 1983
2• you would have become a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by descent if, before 1 January 1983, women had been able to pass on citizenship to their children in the same way as men at the time of your birth
3• you would have acquired a right of abode in the UK because:
o your mother was, at the time of your birth, a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by birth, legal adoption, naturalisation or registration* in the United Kingdom, Channel Islands or Isle of Man, or


I believe 1 is fulfilled, 2nd is fullfilled on the basis of NOtes in UKM guide as below:

The second requirement above is that you would have become a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by descent if women had been able to pass on citizenship to their children in the same way as men. You will meet this requirement if at the time of your birth:
• your mother was:
o born, adopted, naturalised or registered in the United Kingdom and Colonies, or
o a British subject before 1 January 1949 and was born in a British protectorate, protected state or United Kingdom trust territory, or

She was born in kenya protectorate 1947 and was british subject then - so this is fulfilled


3rd requirement: If she has made a passport in HMPO in Liverpool UK then there should not be requirement of registartion separately when she herself made a valid British Passport .

Any comments:

mslibraoctww wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:40 pm

3rd requirement: If she has made a passport in HMPO in Liverpool UK then there should not be requirement of registartion separately when she herself made a valid British Passport .

She was entitled to a CUKC passport in 1970 without registration as she was born a CUKC by birth in Kenya.

But a CUKC passport issued in Liverpool does not give her RoA. The requirements for her acquiring RoA in 1971 are laid out in Section 2 of the Immigration Act 1971 (as enacted).

She does not meet any of the requirements listed there and therefore does not have RoA in 1983.

You, her child, do not have RoA either. And the requirement to apply on Form UKM is that you, her child, the applicant have RoA.

Also see this brief (out-of-date as it does not include the Immigration Acts 2014 & 2016) history of the Immigration Acts, of the history of British nationality and British Nationality Acts through the ages on the Gov.UK website.

Further Reading
British Nationality Act 1948 (as enacted)
Immigration Act 1971 (as enacted) - Pay particular attention to Section 2
British Nationality Act 1981

I got response from a lawyer

"Yes, I confirm that your mother would receive a full British passport.
This would open the UKM route to registering as a British citizen for you and your brother."

@secret.simon -Do you think i can ask him any question to validate that it will work.

mslibraoctww wrote: ↑

Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:49 pm

@secret.simon-Do you think i can ask him any question to validate that it will work.

(a) Ask them to go through this thread. Let us know their thoughts. After all, I could learn something new. In particular, I would be interested in knowing in their thinking of how your mother and you acquired RoA before 1983.
(b) Apply for a British passport in your mother's name and keep us posted of what she gets.
(c) Citizenship through Form UKM is relatively cheap (only £80 for the citizenship ceremony), so you have nothing to lose in trying.

sounds good .Thanks.

Hi ,
I just checked with my mom's broher who is in states now.
He showed me my grandfather's registration certificate in liverpool in 1969.
What is possibility of my mom's full british passport and my UKM eligibility now .Any ancestral visa ?

On top of that ,my grandfathers registration certificate shows ,he was in crown service since 1947 (before mom's birth.

That may be important.

@Vinny:
I read the whole thread. Do you suggest my grandpa's crown service in kenya makes my mom british by birth or by descent. Also does she need to apply for CoE before renewing her british passport. o it can benefit her children.

If 14

(2) A person born outside the United Kingdom before commencement is not a British citizen “by descent” by virtue of subsection (1)(b) or (e) if his father was at the time of his birth serving outside the United Kingdom—

(a)in service of a description mentioned in subsection (3), his recruitment for the service in question having taken place in the United Kingdom; or

(b)in service under a [F5EU] institution, his recruitment for that service having taken place in a country which at the time of the recruitment was a member of the Communities.

applies, then I believe she is British otherwise than by descent.

I also checked:PLs check 2nd paragraph 1st line that means my mom is british by birth not descent?


At least one parent must be a British citizen otherwise than by descent.
1.As a general rule, an unmarried father cannot pass on British citizenship automatically in the case of a child born before 1 July 2006. If the parents marry subsequent to the birth, the child normally becomes a British citizen at that point if legitimated by the marriage and the father was eligible to pass on British citizenship. If the unmarried British father was residing in a country that treated (at the date of birth of the child born before 1 July 2006) a child born to unmarried parents in the same way as a child born to married parents, then the father passed on British citizenship automatically to his child, even though the child was born before 1 July 2006 to unmarried parents.[17] Such countries are listed in the UK Home Office Immigration and Passport Services publication "Legitimation and Domicile".[18]
Where the parent is a British citizen by descent, additional requirements apply. In the most common scenario, the parent is normally expected to have lived in the UK for three consecutive years and apply to register the child as a British citizen while the child is a minor (clause 43, Borders, Citizenship and Immigration Act 2009, effective from 13 January 2010). Prior to this date, the age limit was 12 months.
Before 21 May 2002, all British Overseas Territories except two were treated as 'overseas' for nationality purposes. The exceptions were Gibraltar, where residents are eligible to register as British citizens under section 5 of the British Nationality Act 1981; and the Falkland Islands, granted British citizenship following the Falklands War under the British Nationality (Falkland Islands) Act 1983. Hence, children born to such parents on a British Overseas Territory other than those listed above acquired British citizenship by descent if they were born prior to 21 May 2002, while children born on or after that day on a British Overseas Territory (other than Akrotiri and Dhekelia) acquired British citizenship otherwise than by descent as UK-born children.

2, Children born overseas to parents on Crown Service are normally granted British citizenship otherwise than by descent, so their status is the same as it would have been had they been born in the UK.
In exceptional cases, the Home Secretary may register a child of parents who are British by descent as a British citizen under discretionary provisions, for example if the child is stateless, or a second or subsequent generation born abroad into a British citizen family with strong links with the UK, or in 'compassionate circumstances'.[19]

source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_nationality_law

@secret.simon:my grandfather was in crown service in Kenya before my mom's birth 1946-1964 and it's mentioned in his UK registration certificate from 1969
Does it help my mom to be british by birth and not by descent.