Unsuccessful applications

smallpie · Post by **smallpie** » Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:04 am

vinz420 wrote: ↑
Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:55 am

smallpie wrote: ↑
Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:43 am

vinz420 wrote: ↑
Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:23 am

smallpie wrote: ↑
Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:56 am

Hi, do they give you chance to appeal?
Yes they have and both immigration lawyers I've spoken with said I have a 99% chance of winning because they looked like the Officer who looked after my son's application thought he was seeking asylum rather than just wanting to migrate with his British family. The trouble is, it already took them 8 months to make this decision (original application was 11th March) and when I spoke with the UK Tribunal regarding the appeal, they said realistically, it can take another 9-12 months for the appeal to happen.

Hi, i think you definitely have the chance of winning too, your son is a minor, so I don't see any reason he can't be with his family here.

Throw everything you can at them, during the appeal. Although as they said, it takes longer to hear the case, I av a friend who went through same, trying to bring his 15yrs old son here last year, application was refused, but appeal granted few months ago this year.

Wish you all the best..
Would you happen to know how long their appeal took in total?

Not sure, but I know it took months, abt 9-10mnths.
Will find out and update you here. Hopefully it will help as a time frame guidance.

Bless.

CR001 · Post by **CR001** » Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:48 am

smallpie wrote: ↑
Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:04 am

vinz420 wrote: ↑
Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:55 am

To both users 'vinz420' and 'smallpie' : this topic is for CITIZENSHIP refusal posts ONLY. 'vinz420', please continue your questions in your existing visa refusal topic you already have where you are receiving advice.

smallpie · Post by **smallpie** » Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:34 pm

CR001 wrote: ↑
Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:48 am

smallpie wrote: ↑
Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:04 am

vinz420 wrote: ↑
Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:55 am

To both users 'vinz420' and 'smallpie' : this topic is for CITIZENSHIP refusal posts ONLY. 'vinz420', please continue your questions in your existing visa refusal topic you already have where you are receiving advice.

Noted

babe_khyber · Post by **babe_khyber** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:37 pm

Hi there,
My reconsideration application has been refused on 30 October 2017. But I received in end of November. How long time I have to lodge Judicial review application and what is fees of barrister in these days. What is the chances of JR if the home office delayed decision for 2 and half years at initial stage first decision and 18 month for reconsideration decision. Both were decided by the same person and just copy the previous refusal letter and pest it with the new date and option for reconsideration ones again. Is there any organisation or law firm to represent refugees at court or other kind of helpful information then please reply me if you know some one . Thank you.
Regards.
Babe khyber

kiks · Post by **kiks** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:55 am

Hello guys,
I am sorry to hear/read some of the refusal stories. But I would like to find out - if you guys applied via NCS JCAP way- did they collected fee for you passport as well and not returned it when AN was rejected? I'm only asking as they collect first fee for Naturalisation and then after 1 week or so for passport? Maybe that would be indication if the application will succeed? Please share your experience.
Kind Regards

mrgs1 · Post by **mrgs1** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:06 am

kiks wrote: ↑
Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:55 am
Hello guys,
I am sorry to hear/read some of the refusal stories. But I would like to find out - if you guys applied via NCS JCAP way- did they collected fee for you passport as well and not returned it when AN was rejected? I'm only asking as they collect first fee for Naturalisation and then after 1 week or so for passport? Maybe that would be indication if the application will succeed? Please share your experience.
Kind Regards

The collection of fees is standard procedure, no indication that application is successful. The only fee returned is Ceremony fee.

CR001 · Post by **CR001** » Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:40 am

Can members PLEASE only post in this topic IF your application has been refused. This is NOT a general 'what if' question topic.

chiefengineer · Post by **chiefengineer** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:33 pm

Hi,
I was refused, because I was absent 5 years ago on the date they get my application.
May be because everything were correct in my application and they simply need to refuse some quantity of applications.
I apply for reconsideration last week. Actually I was in UK offshore waters near Southwold, I don't think it is absence from UK.
But what a crazy reasons for refusal. (I have been living 10 years in UK)

secret.simon · Post by **secret.simon** » Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:45 pm

chiefengineer wrote: ↑
Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:33 pm
I was refused, because I was absent 5 years ago on the date they get my application.
May be because everything were correct in my application and they simply need to refuse some quantity of applications.
I apply for reconsideration last week. Actually I was in UK offshore waters near Southwold, I don't think it is absence from UK.
But what a crazy reasons for refusal. (I have been living 10 years in UK)

No point in applying for reconsideration. It will be refused, because the original refusal was correct.

The "physically present in the UK at the start of the five year period" is a non-negotiable requirement for naturalisation, over which the Home Office has no discretion. If the applicant was not physically in the UK at the start of the five year period, the application must fail. It is the one condition which the Home Office has no discretion to disregard. It is because of this one requirement that I believe that Meghan Markle may need a personal Act of Parliament to become a British citizen.

As for the being on an oil rig in UK Continental Shelf (the 200 mile exclusive economic zone), working on oil installations outside UK territorial waters (the 12 mile zone around the UK) is not subject to UK Immigration Rules, but to international conventions. Hence it is not considered being physically present in the UK for the purpose of nationality law either.

Therefore the refusal of the Home Office was not only correct, the refusal was a requirement of the law (i.e. no discretion was afforded to the Home Office to overlook this shortcoming).

Did you go through the NCS when making the application? They should have caught that you did not meet this very specific requirement.

chiefengineer · Post by **chiefengineer** » Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:23 pm

No, I didn't go through NCS. But I found that I worked in UK territorial waters (12 miles zone), so I shouldn't declare it as absence. For seaman;s it's complicated to calculate absence.
For example now I working one month on the ship and one month at home. While I don't stay on ground UK land, I think I am in UK. It is UK waters.
So they should except photocopy of seaman's book that showing working area Southwold.
Many thanks for your kind reply.

PaulaB29 · Post by **PaulaB29** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:36 pm

Hello
I wonder if anyone can help me. I made my application for the British citizenship throughout NCS and had two appointments. On the first appointment I was seen by a senior advisor and a trainee. On this application the senior advisor spotted there was a document missing and I decided to cancel my application and came back two weeks later with all the documents. On my final visit I was seen only by the person who was the trainee on the first appointment and he didn’t spot I had the residence certificate instead of the permanent residence card - yesterday i got a letter from HO saying my application has been refused because I didn’t have the correct card.
I am very frustrated as you can imagine and wonder if I can try to get the NCS to reimburse me the application fee of £1280 I lost.
Also I live in Uk for 21 years . Do I still have to wait for 12 months to apply for the citizenship again once I get the permanent residence card? They say once you have the card I need to wait for another 12 months to prove I am settled in Uk. But I live here for 21 years and not only 5 years...
I paid for the NCS trusting they would have the knowledge to advise me if my papers were correct as by the HO requirements and to be able to keep the originals.. clearly I was wrong..
Can anyone advise please?
All the best, Paula

smallpie · Post by **smallpie** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:40 pm

@ paula

Are u EU citizen or non - EU?

iffi786 · Post by **iffi786** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:29 pm

When did u applied and when u got refused latter .

PaulaB29 · Post by **PaulaB29** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:41 pm

Hi
I applied on 13/11/17 and received the letter yesterday 17/01/18
I am Italian.
Thank you

iffi786 wrote: ↑
Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:29 pm
When did u applied and when u got refused latter .

smallpie wrote: ↑
Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:40 pm
@ paula

Are u EU citizen or non - EU?

secret.simon wrote: ↑
Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:40 pm
CR001's advice is spot-on.

Your first port of call should be your old passports to see if there is an ILR stamp or vignette in them. If you do have such a stamp, you may be home scot-free and the discussion below should not affect you (unless you have been away from the UK for two years).

From your description, you submitted a Residence Certificate, the outcome of an EEA(QP) application. That card certifies that you were an EEA citizen exercising treaty rights as of the date of the application.

What you need for naturalisation is a DCPR, a Document Certifying Permament Residence. To get that, you need to submit an EEA(PR) form, along with proof of five continuous years of working (in your case). The oldest five years that you can prove would be the best.

Here is an image I found online that may help.

If you notice, in the vignette on the right of the image, you will notice the words "Registration Certificate". If that is the kind of document that you submitted, it was the wrong document and the naturalisation application must fail.

However, if you had an identical blue card, but with the words "Document Certifying Permanent Residence", then the Home Office has made a mistake, not you and you should get naturalisation.

This is what the vignette on a blue card for a DCPR would look like.

So, if you look at the blue card that you have, what does the vignette look like? The first example or the second example?

Slightly off-topic; Santa Claus/Saint Nicholas would likely have been issued a DCPR through Mrs Claus, whos is likely an EEA (Norwegian??) citizen. St. Nick of course has a Canadian postal address - Santa Claus, North Pole, Canada, H0H 0H0 (it is an actual postal address).

PaulaB29 · Post by **PaulaB29** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:44 pm

iffi786 wrote: ↑
Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:29 pm
When did u applied and when u got refused latter .

Hi
I applied through the NCS on 13/11/17 and received the letter yesterday 17/01/18

If I make the permanent residence card do I still need to wait for 12 months to apply again even though I like in UK for 21 years?
Thank you
Paula

PaulaB29 · Post by **PaulaB29** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:47 pm

smallpie wrote: ↑
Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:40 pm
@ paula

Are u EU citizen or non - EU?

I am italian and live in UK for 21 years. Clearly I made the incorrect card . If I make the permanent residence card do I still have to wait for 12 months for my next application?
I am mad with the NSC as I believe they should have the knowledge to spot I had the residence certificate and not the permanent residence card.
I am still in shock, must say
Kind regards
Paula

smallpie · Post by **smallpie** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:45 pm

@ paula, quoted from the homeoffice website :

For EU citizens living in the UK

"Using your document to apply for citizenship"

You can only use your permanent residence document to apply for British citizenship after you’ve lived in the UK for 6 years.

That means you must wait another 12 months if you’ve only lived in the UK for 5 years when you get your document.

But you can apply immediately if:
you’ve already lived in the UK for 6 years when you get your document.

So In your situation paula, you don't av to wait 12months, you can apply immediately for citizenship, once you got your permanent document.

And provided other requirements are met i.e life in the UK and test of English.

smallpie · Post by **smallpie** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:49 pm

@ paula.

You can have a look at this link for detailed information, hope it helps.

https://www.gov.uk/eea-registration-cer ... -residence

PaulaB29 · Post by **PaulaB29** » Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:31 am

Thank you so much , at least a good news after all.
Yes I got the test life in Uk and the English test.
Now would you be able to advise if I can try to get Camdem NSC to reimburse
me the money I lost with the lack of knowledge from their staff in not been able to spot a had the incorrect residence card? In the case I had the residence certificate and not the residence permanent card. In my defence I though the residence certificate was the permanent card as in the letter it came with it says the card is a permanent card, so I missed interpreted ....
Thank you for all your help,
Have a lovely day
Paula

smallpie wrote: ↑
Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:45 pm
@ paula, quoted from the homeoffice website :

For EU citizens living in the UK

"Using your document to apply for citizenship"

You can only use your permanent residence document to apply for British citizenship after you’ve lived in the UK for 6 years.

That means you must wait another 12 months if you’ve only lived in the UK for 5 years when you get your document.

But you can apply immediately if:
you’ve already lived in the UK for 6 years when you get your document.

So In your situation paula, you don't av to wait 12months, you can apply immediately for citizenship, once you got your permanent document.

And provided other requirements are met i.e life in the UK and test of English.

smallpie · Post by **smallpie** » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:49 am

@ paula,

You can give it a try to query the NCS, Regarding their service and not spotting the issues before you submit it. And they even charge you for the service.

Worth trying..

demis1981 · Post by **demis1981** » Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:33 pm

Hi Paula,

You can apply for permanent resident card which costs £65 for any of the years that you were here starting from 2006 (when the treaty was signed for the permanent residence). For instance I have been in the UK since 2000 ( I am EU citizen). So in my PR application I provided them documents from 2006 to 2011 and my PR card was issued stating that I acquired permanent residence in 2012. However in my AN application I had to provide them evidence from 2012 until 2017 and my PR card

. So I suggest you make a permanent resident application and include for instance documents from 2010 to 2015.

PaulaB29 · Post by **PaulaB29** » Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:03 pm

Hello
Thank you for your reply. But why can’t I apply for the permanent card as from 2006 to 2011? I don’t want to wait 12 months to aply for the British Citizenship... some how I don’t quite understand..
I applied for the citizenship from 2010 to 2017 I think and I didn’t have any issues with that..
Would you mind clarifying it please?
Thank you again,
Paula
22

demis1981 wrote: ↑
Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:33 pm
Hi Paula,

You can apply for permanent resident card which costs £65 for any of the years that you were here starting from 2006 (when the treaty was signed for the permanent residence). For instance I have been in the UK since 2000 ( I am EU citizen). So in my PR application I provided them documents from 2006 to 2011 and my PR card was issued stating that I acquired permanent residence in 2012. However in my AN application I had to provide them evidence from 2012 until 2017 and my PR card . So I suggest you make a permanent resident application and include for instance documents from 2010 to 2015.

demis1981 · Post by **demis1981** » Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:16 pm

To be able to apply for naturalization as an EEA resident the requirement is that you first have to apply for permanent resident card (PR CARD). You need to have the PR card stating that you acquired residence 12 months prior to the AN application.
If you apply now for the PR card and you provide them evidence from example 2012-2017 then your PR card will state that you acquired Permanent residency in 2018 and then you will have to wait 12 months to apply in 2019..... But if you provide them evidence for any 5 year period after 2006 for example 2007 to 2012 then you will acquire permanent residence in 2013 and then you can go and apply for the AN because from 2013 until 2018 its over than 12 months!
I know Its very annoying because I had to go through the same. The PR card takes average 4 months to issue (mine took around 3 months)

PaulaB29 · Post by **PaulaB29** » Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:43 pm

Thank you for the explanation , I understand now.
I will then apply for the PR Card from 2007 to 2012.
It s more clear now.
all the best,
Paula

demis1981 wrote: ↑
Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:16 pm
To be able to apply for naturalization as an EEA resident the requirement is that you first have to apply for permanent resident card (PR CARD). You need to have the PR card stating that you acquired residence 12 months prior to the AN application.
If you apply now for the PR card and you provide them evidence from example 2012-2017 then your PR card will state that you acquired Permanent residency in 2018 and then you will have to wait 12 months to apply in 2019..... But if you provide them evidence for any 5 year period after 2006 for example 2007 to 2012 then you will acquire permanent residence in 2013 and then you can go and apply for the AN because from 2013 until 2018 its over than 12 months!
I know Its very annoying because I had to go through the same. The PR card takes average 4 months to issue (mine took around 3 months)

PaulaB29 · Post by **PaulaB29** » Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:15 pm

Hello again
I am going through the PR card application and it says I need to provide documents to prove I have continuously live in Uk from the end of the qualifying year which means I need to prove I am still living in UK.. does it means I have to send documents from work for example up to 2017? If so I am concerned they will work out the qualifying years up to 2017 and I will have to wait another 12 months to apply for the citizenship.. I am applying from 2006 to 2012 but since 2010 I work as a self employed .Yes I can apply also from 2007 to 2013 /2014 but Do I need to send my latest tax return documents? That's where I don't understand.
Can you still help?
Thank you ,
Paula

demis1981 wrote: ↑
Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:16 pm
To be able to apply for naturalization as an EEA resident the requirement is that you first have to apply for permanent resident card (PR CARD). You need to have the PR card stating that you acquired residence 12 months prior to the AN application.
If you apply now for the PR card and you provide them evidence from example 2012-2017 then your PR card will state that you acquired Permanent residency in 2018 and then you will have to wait 12 months to apply in 2019..... But if you provide them evidence for any 5 year period after 2006 for example 2007 to 2012 then you will acquire permanent residence in 2013 and then you can go and apply for the AN because from 2013 until 2018 its over than 12 months!
I know Its very annoying because I had to go through the same. The PR card takes average 4 months to issue (mine took around 3 months)

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