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Unsuccessful applications

A section for posts relating to applications for Naturalisation or Registration as a British Citizen. Naturalisation

Moderators: Casa, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, meself2, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe

IcikePicike
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Re: Unsuccessful applications

Post by IcikePicike » Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:35 pm

PaulaB29 wrote:
Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:15 pm
Hello again
I am going through the PR card application and it says I need to provide documents to prove I have continuously live in Uk from the end of the qualifying year which means I need to prove I am still living in UK.. does it means I have to send documents from work for example up to 2017? If so I am concerned they will work out the qualifying years up to 2017 and I will have to wait another 12 months to apply for the citizenship.. I am applying from 2006 to 2012 but since 2010 I work as a self employed .Yes I can apply also from 2007 to 2013 /2014 but Do I need to send my latest tax return documents? That's where I don't understand.
Can you still help?
Thank you ,
Paula
Hi Paula,

there is a different section on this messaging board regarding permanent residency but I'd really just advise you to contact a solicitor. I know people say here that it's a waste of money but from all the complaints I've seen, relying on NCS is false economy and causes a lot of grief. I mean it's the useless council, why on earth is anyone surprised.

Anyway, please post in the EEA PR card application forum.

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Re: Unsuccessful applications

Post by TMaddy » Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:15 pm

Hi all,

MY naturalization is refused sying I didn't had valid visa in 2008 till 2010. this is totally home office error. as I was on valid visa( entry Clarence ). I have copy of visa as well.

Seniors please advised what I have to send with RN form.. I will send copy of visa for that period and explaining decision was made in error.

I have initially applied from NCS. just to confirm I don't have to send original passport, ILR etc.. only I have to send copy of visa to confirm I had valid visa.

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Re: Unsuccessful applications

Post by CR001 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:29 pm

TMaddy wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:15 pm
Hi all,

MY naturalization is refused sying I didn't had valid visa in 2008 till 2010. this is totally home office error. as I was on valid visa( entry Clarence ). I have copy of visa as well.

Seniors please advised what I have to send with RN form.. I will send copy of visa for that period and explaining decision was made in error.

I have initially applied from NCS. just to confirm I don't have to send original passport, ILR etc.. only I have to send copy of visa to confirm I had valid visa.
What visa did you hold at that time?

What is your full immigration history??
Char (CR001 not Casa)
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Re: Unsuccessful applications

Post by TMaddy » Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:05 pm

CR001 wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:29 pm
TMaddy wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:15 pm
Hi all,

MY naturalization is refused sying I didn't had valid visa in 2008 till 2010. this is totally home office error. as I was on valid visa( entry Clarence ). I have copy of visa as well.

Seniors please advised what I have to send with RN form.. I will send copy of visa for that period and explaining decision was made in error.

I have initially applied from NCS. just to confirm I don't have to send original passport, ILR etc.. only I have to send copy of visa to confirm I had valid visa.
What visa did you hold at that time?

What is your full immigration history??

from 2005-2008 student visa
2008-2010 student dependent
2010-2012 psw Tier1 dependent
2011-2013 tier1 dependent
2013-2016 tier 1 ext dependent
april 2016 ILR as tier1 dependent

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CR001
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Re: Unsuccessful applications

Post by CR001 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:14 pm

TMaddy wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:05 pm
CR001 wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:29 pm
TMaddy wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:15 pm
Hi all,

MY naturalization is refused sying I didn't had valid visa in 2008 till 2010. this is totally home office error. as I was on valid visa( entry Clarence ). I have copy of visa as well.

Seniors please advised what I have to send with RN form.. I will send copy of visa for that period and explaining decision was made in error.

I have initially applied from NCS. just to confirm I don't have to send original passport, ILR etc.. only I have to send copy of visa to confirm I had valid visa.
What visa did you hold at that time?

What is your full immigration history??

from 2005-2008 student visa
2008-2010 student dependent
2010-2012 psw Tier1 dependent
2011-2013 tier1 dependent
2013-2016 tier 1 ext dependent
april 2016 ILR as tier1 dependent
What was the exact wording of the refusal letter you received (taking out all personal details)?

Your partner who had the student visa that you were dependent on, their visa was curtailed or anything like that?
Char (CR001 not Casa)
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louisbrighton
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Re: Unsuccessful applications

Post by louisbrighton » Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:32 pm

hello!
after almost 2 years of hard work I have finally received the letter confirming my BC.

Applied for RC in May 2016 got it in October 2016
Applied for BC in Nov 2016 got a letter back in Feb 2017 refusing due to not holding RC for 12 months prior application.
Applied for Reconsideration in Feb 2017
Got a letter in May 2017 to confirm my application was been reconsiderated
Today 02/02/2018 Got a letter confirming reconsideration has been successfully accepted!

I am very happy and hope you all get the same result. This group has been very helpful and I would like to thanks everyone for being part of it. God bless!

PaulaB29
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Re: Unsuccessful applications

Post by PaulaB29 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:34 pm

Hello thank you for sharing.
Did you apply for reconsideration meaning starting a new fresh application or after one year can you aply for reconsideration just paying a fee of £231?
Maybe if my PR arrives in 2/3 months do you think I could apply for reconsideration instead of starting tge application all over again?
Basically my application was refused in middle January 2018 because I had the Residence Certificate Card and not the PR Card.
Thanks again, Paula

chiefengineer
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Re: Unsuccessful applications

Post by chiefengineer » Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:26 pm

So, as I understand reconsideration can take about 10 months?

Londoner11
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Re: Unsuccessful applications

Post by Londoner11 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:07 pm

Hello!

I just got rejected my citizenship application and I am not sure why. I applied November 27, 17. I applied under section 6(1) based on residency.

The decision letter states "As you were subject to a time limit on your stay in the United Kingdom until 6th April 2018, you do not meet the requirement to have been free from any time restrictions on your stay for the whole of the twelve months prior to your application."

My PR documentation was issued on Sept 5, 2017 and the corresponding letter of the HO states "the date on you which are deemed to have acquired permanent residence in the UK is: 06 April 2016."

I am wondering where the date "6th April 2018" comes from on the rejection letter. What residency requirements could I have not satisfied?

Many thanks!

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Re: Unsuccessful applications

Post by smallpie » Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:27 pm

@ Londoner11

You may need to query the decision, with all your evidences,correspondences and reasons..

But if you got issued PR Sept 2017, u will av to wait till Sept 2018 ( to clock 12months as a PR holder, before you apply for naturalisation).

Look into more details and informations regarding this..
CITIZENSHIP confirmed.

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Re: Unsuccessful applications

Post by CR001 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:50 am

smallpie wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:27 pm
@ Londoner11

You may need to query the decision, with all your evidences,correspondences and reasons..

But if you got issued PR Sept 2017, u will av to wait till Sept 2018 ( to clock 12months as a PR holder, before you apply for naturalisation).

Look into more details and informations regarding this..
The user has clearly stated that the letter indicates the date PR was acquired in 2016. This is different to the date of the card and the 12 months counts from the acquired date not the card date.
Char (CR001 not Casa)
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Re: Unsuccessful applications

Post by smallpie » Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:32 am

@ cr001

I clearly see that the user indicated the letter says PR aquired 2016.

But am just looking at it maybe HO uses the actual date of PR card physically issued to applicants as their starting counting date towards the 12months.

My SAR shows am deemed for PR since 2014, but I actually applied for it physically in 2016, and waited 12months after that before applying for naturalisation.
Am sure if I had applied for naturalisation in 2016, it would have been refused..with same reason as the user above.

But i maybe wrong..with my assumption.

Maybe the user can query the decision or seek reconsideration.
CITIZENSHIP confirmed.

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Re: Unsuccessful applications

Post by ALFI » Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:53 pm

smallpie wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:32 am
@ cr001

I clearly see that the user indicated the letter says PR aquired 2016.

But am just looking at it maybe HO uses the actual date of PR card physically issued to applicants as their starting counting date towards the 12months.

My SAR shows am deemed for PR since 2014, but I actually applied for it physically in 2016, and waited 12months after that before applying for naturalisation.
Am sure if I had applied for naturalisation in 2016, it would have been refused..with same reason as the user above.

But i maybe wrong..with my assumption.

Maybe the user can query the decision or seek reconsideration.
My wife applied just 1 month after the PR was physically issued and she got approval. The date of "acquiring" the PR is what is important, not when it was issued.
But you never know when someone new at Home Office could make a mistake on that.

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Re: Unsuccessful applications

Post by smallpie » Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:04 pm

@ alfi,
Thanks for the additional clarification.
Which means the previous user above, can challenge the refusal or reconsideration.
CITIZENSHIP confirmed.

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Re: Unsuccessful applications

Post by louisbrighton » Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:43 pm

Londoner11 wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:07 pm
Hello!

I just got rejected my citizenship application and I am not sure why. I applied November 27, 17. I applied under section 6(1) based on residency.

The decision letter states "As you were subject to a time limit on your stay in the United Kingdom until 6th April 2018, you do not meet the requirement to have been free from any time restrictions on your stay for the whole of the twelve months prior to your application."

My PR documentation was issued on Sept 5, 2017 and the corresponding letter of the HO states "the date on you which are deemed to have acquired permanent residence in the UK is: 06 April 2016."

I am wondering where the date "6th April 2018" comes from on the rejection letter. What residency requirements could I have not satisfied?

Many thanks!

when did you arrive in the UK?

I have been tru the same issue one year ago, I've got here in 2006 but they have refused my application because I didn't wait for 12 months (after getting the RC) to apply. Your case might be similar to mine, I just got my BC approved a week ago, after 1 year waiting to hear against their decision.

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Re: Unsuccessful applications

Post by ALFI » Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:27 am

Londoner11 wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:07 pm
Hello!

I just got rejected my citizenship application and I am not sure why. I applied November 27, 17. I applied under section 6(1) based on residency.

The decision letter states "As you were subject to a time limit on your stay in the United Kingdom until 6th April 2018, you do not meet the requirement to have been free from any time restrictions on your stay for the whole of the twelve months prior to your application."

My PR documentation was issued on Sept 5, 2017 and the corresponding letter of the HO states "the date on you which are deemed to have acquired permanent residence in the UK is: 06 April 2016."

I am wondering where the date "6th April 2018" comes from on the rejection letter. What residency requirements could I have not satisfied?

Many thanks!
Hmmmm.... this look like a mistake by the person that reviewed your case. They should use the date you "acquired permanent residency" and NOT the date you received the physical document confirming it.
If that is the reason, you should immediately challenge the refusal.

Before you do so, make sure you didn't breach any of the other residency requirements. For example "absence from UK" (been away too many days) in the past 12 months as PR holder.

If that is not the case, then there are two possible reasons:
1) Genuine mistake by the case worker (misread/miscalculated the dates)
2) Home Office is using all possible opportunities to get rid of us (EU) as part of the Brexit ........

And to give you a proof to use against them, look at this official response from Home Office on that subject:

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... us_over_12
Specifically the following paragraph:
>>>A person acquires permanent residence following 5 years’ residence in accordance with the EEA Regulations, not on the date they obtain a residence card. We would therefore encourage a person who has been resident in the UK for some time to send evidence that they were resident in the UK for a 5 year period ending at least 12 months before they want to apply for citizenship, so that they can meet the relevant requirement. This will mean that they can then immediately apply for citizenship. The date that they were deemed to have acquired permanent residence will be recorded on UKVI’s database and so will be clear to the nationality caseworker. We have amended our customer guidance to try and make this easier to understand for potential applicants.<<<

Both EU and HO documents are quite clear on that topic.

Btw, my wife and myself are in exactly the same situation like you. Both of use applied immediately after getting the physical document without waiting 12 months. She already got approval letter 2 months ago, I am waiting for my decision to arrive in the coming days/weeks.

Unless we see a huge amount of people rejected for that (which will point to #2 above) then it is probably just a mistake by your case worker.

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Re: Unsuccessful applications

Post by Londoner11 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:31 pm

Dear all:

Many thanks for your thoughts. Indeed, it seems like a mistake by the HO.

Cheers!

chiefengineer
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Re: Unsuccessful applications

Post by chiefengineer » Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:18 pm

Please advise waiting time for reconsideration.

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Re: Unsuccessful applications

Post by CR001 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:20 pm

chiefengineer wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:18 pm
Please advise waiting time for reconsideration.
There is no stipulated timeline or timeframe. It can take a few months, it can take over a year.
Char (CR001 not Casa)
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chiefengineer
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Re: Unsuccessful applications

Post by chiefengineer » Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:36 pm

CR001 wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:20 pm
chiefengineer wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:18 pm
Please advise waiting time for reconsideration.
There is no stipulated timeline or timeframe. It can take a few months, it can take over a year.
Thanks for reply. So, after 8 months better to submit new application?

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Re: Unsuccessful applications

Post by CR001 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:40 pm

chiefengineer wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:36 pm
CR001 wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:20 pm
chiefengineer wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:18 pm
Please advise waiting time for reconsideration.
There is no stipulated timeline or timeframe. It can take a few months, it can take over a year.
Thanks for reply. So, after 8 months better to submit new application?
The reason you were refused is not 'discretionary'. It is a mandatory requirement to be physically present at the start of the qualifying period.
secret.simon wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:45 pm
chiefengineer wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:33 pm
I was refused, because I was absent 5 years ago on the date they get my application.
May be because everything were correct in my application and they simply need to refuse some quantity of applications.
I apply for reconsideration last week. Actually I was in UK offshore waters near Southwold, I don't think it is absence from UK.
But what a crazy reasons for refusal. (I have been living 10 years in UK)
No point in applying for reconsideration. It will be refused, because the original refusal was correct.

The "physically present in the UK at the start of the five year period" is a non-negotiable requirement for naturalisation, over which the Home Office has no discretion. If the applicant was not physically in the UK at the start of the five year period, the application must fail. It is the one condition which the Home Office has no discretion to disregard. It is because of this one requirement that I believe that Meghan Markle may need a personal Act of Parliament to become a British citizen.

As for the being on an oil rig in UK Continental Shelf (the 200 mile exclusive economic zone), working on oil installations outside UK territorial waters (the 12 mile zone around the UK) is not subject to UK Immigration Rules, but to international conventions. Hence it is not considered being physically present in the UK for the purpose of nationality law either.

Therefore the refusal of the Home Office was not only correct, the refusal was a requirement of the law (i.e. no discretion was afforded to the Home Office to overlook this shortcoming).

Did you go through the NCS when making the application? They should have caught that you did not meet this very specific requirement.
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Re: Unsuccessful applications

Post by secret.simon » Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:29 pm

chiefengineer wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:23 pm
No, I didn't go through NCS. But I found that I worked in UK territorial waters (12 miles zone), so I shouldn't declare it as absence. For seaman;s it's complicated to calculate absence.
For example now I working one month on the ship and one month at home. While I don't stay on ground UK land, I think I am in UK. It is UK waters.
So they should except photocopy of seaman's book that showing working area Southwold.
Many thanks for your kind reply.
Your case is quite complicated because you were normally based on a ship. Was there any period of time five years ago when you were wholly based on UK land (such as if you were sick or you went on a hiking vacation, for instance)? Do you have proof of such a period?

Franman's British Nationality Law discusses cases of ships based in UK territorial waters (within 12 nautical miles from the coast) on Pages 81-85. It concludes that ships within these limits should be included as being in the UK, but also points out that the Nationality Instructions disagrees and does not include such ships in the definition of the United Kingdom for the purposes of naturalisation.

There is a reasonably good chance that you may have to take the Home Office to court (a judicial review) in order to have a judicial ruling as to whether ships in UK territorial waters should be considered as being in the UK for the purposes of naturalisation.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

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Re: Unsuccessful applications

Post by chiefengineer » Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:56 pm

Thanks for kind reply. I suggest my home established in London, there I live with my family. Every time I finish my contract I return back in London, there I have been living for 10 years. I registered with Council on that address. My car is registered to this address.
I got an answer from Home Office that working in 12 miles is not absence from UK. I did a mistake, when I completed my application.
I submitted with Reconsideration form photocopy of my discharge book that showing I was in Southwold area on that month. But because it was my mistake logically I should wait for decision I think before to go for the court?

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Re: Unsuccessful applications

Post by chiefengineer » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:31 am

Do you know any way to speed up application for reconsideration?

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Re: Unsuccessful applications

Post by ALFI » Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:58 am

Londoner11 wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:31 pm
Dear all:

Many thanks for your thoughts. Indeed, it seems like a mistake by the HO.

Cheers!
As mentioned earlier on this thread, I was waiting for a decision with the exactly the same case as you (in terms of how long I had the physical PR document for). Just got the approval, and so did two of my friends.
It looks very unlikely for this to be a deliberate attempt to lower the approvals, it is just a one-off mistake the the HO.

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