Vitals Questions on Naturalization/British Citizenship.

Good morning and happy Sunday to the experts here.

1. Is there any major difference between the Naturalization approval and being a British Citizen and having a British Passport?

2. If spouse received Naturalization approval (no ceremony, & no British passport yet) on 01-01-2022, and the partner receives ILR on 01-02-2022, can the partner immediately apply for Naturalization approval as from after 01-02-2022?

3. In terms of Referees for the Naturalization application, do you have to use someone with a British passport, or the Naturalization approval is okay?

4. Could there be discretion applied by the HO if one is applying for Naturalization if ILR is less than 12 moths based on health reasons.

GeneralGeorgina wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 9:39 am

1. Is there any major difference between the Naturalization approval and being a British Citizen and having a British Passport?

Naturalisation approval is a step leading towards British citizenship, but you only become a British citizen after the citizenship ceremony and being issued a naturalisation certificate.

GeneralGeorgina wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 9:39 am

2. If spouse received Naturalization approval (no ceremony, & no British passport yet) on 01-01-2022, and the partner receives ILR on 01-02-2022, can the partner immediately apply for Naturalization approval as from after 01-02-2022?

No. They can apply on or after the date of the spouses's citizenship ceremony/naturalisation certificate. The date of naturalisation approval is irrelevant.

GeneralGeorgina wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 9:39 am

3. In terms of Referees for the Naturalization application, do you have to use someone with a British passport, or the Naturalization approval is okay?

I believe that the requirements is specifically for somebody with a British passport i.e. even a British citizen without a passport can't be a referee.

GeneralGeorgina wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 9:39 am

4. Could there be discretion applied by the HO if one is applying for Naturalization if ILR is less than 12 moths based on health reasons.

There is discretion to disregard the 12 months requirement, but you will have to give a good reason why they can't wait the 12 months. You may have to explain why the health reasons would matter.

Thank you very much secret.simon for swift the responses.

So is it possible to be a British citizen without a British passport?

GeneralGeorgina wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 9:56 am

So is it possible to be a British citizen without a British passport?

Yes, if they do not travel abroad, or travel abroad on a non-British passport with a CoE-RoA or a visa-free non-British passport.

Also do we have same day services for Naturalization application

GeneralGeorgina wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 9:58 am

Also do we have same day services for Naturalization application

No.

It can take many months for the naturalisation approval to come through and then many more weeks till the citizenship ceremony. I'd budget about six-eight months for the whole process.

Thank you very much secret.simon.

GeneralGeorgina wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 9:56 am

Thank you very much secret.simon for swift the responses.

So is it possible to be a British citizen without a British passport?

I'd like to step in here since this one seems to be quite a usual misunderstanding.

Just think about your own original nationality. When did you get your first passport? Were you a citizen of your home country before you were issued your first passport?

It might not be the case of everyone, but it would not be unreasonable to assume that most people around the world get their first passport when they first travel abroad. For wealthy people this might happen when they are a child, for poor people this might never happen. Think about it.

That is to say that citizenship and a document that proves that citizenship abroad (a passport) are obviously not the same thing. From that follows:

1. You can be a citizen of a country without a passport from that country.
2. The fact that you obtain citizenship from a country doesn't mean you will automatically have a passport issued from that country.


The above means that the process of getting Citizenship of any country is separate from the process of obtaining a passport from that country. Just as with the passport of your home country, you have to specifically apply for it! And it's not mandatory. You can perfectly decide to stop the process after getting Citizenship and never apply for a passport. That's not illegal. However, obviously, if you want to be identified as a British citizen abroad and when traveling back to the UK, then you need a British passport, and that's why people usually apply for it right after their citizenship process. But if you never intend to travel and all you want is to live your life in the UK, then no one will force you to have a British passport. That's why the Windrush scandal happened.

Thank you very much kamoe.

Based on your response, and I know that secret.simon has responded perfectly already.

I am just wondering why the Referees for the Naturalization application has to be someone with British passport rather than some with Naturalization certificate.

GeneralGeorgina wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 10:57 am

Thank you very much kamoe.

Based on your response, and I know that secret.simon has responded perfectly already.

I am just wondering why the Referees for the Naturalization application has to be someone with British passport rather than some with Naturalization certificate.

Yeah, good question. Maybe to have a document to check signatures against? Or since there isn't a national identity card, the easiest way is to have a numerical ID.

But it could be argued that a naturalisation certificate or driving license could work. Another layer of arbitrary selection, I guess. The Home Office are not particularly known for making things easy.

GeneralGeorgina wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 10:57 am

I am just wondering why the Referees for the Naturalization application has to be someone with British passport rather than some with Naturalization certificate.

The way it was explained to me by my own referee (and they had refereed many people in the organisation that I work in) is that the requirements are such that the referee can be punished if it turns out that they lied during the referral.

Thus a professional referee can be punished through their professional organisation (so, a solicitor could be sanctioned through the Law Society, for instance) or through an action that prevents them from carrying out their formal role (a minister of religion could have their license to marry, etc, revoked, for instance).

A British citizen with a passport could have their passport withdrawn or an adverse entry placed against it that can cause further scrutiny of a passport renewal.

Note that this is not official government advice, merely what my own referee told me. And they may well be wrong.

Thank you very much secret.simon & kamoe for your professional wisdom.

I am just wondering why a referee will lie during the referral process.

In fact, there is no provision for such that will warrant such lies.

GeneralGeorgina wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 13, 2022 11:15 am

I am just wondering why a referee will lie during the referral process.

For the same reason sham marriages take place. In theory one could set up a business of referral service for people you've never met. At least in the legacy imaginary of the Home Office.

Okey dokey.
That makes sence. Thank you guys.

secret.simon wrote,

"There is discretion to disregard the 12 months requirement, but you will have to give a good reason why they can't wait the 12 months. You may have to explain why the health reasons would matter."

2 Questions:

1. Please could you kindly provide HO email address where one can ask specific questions regarding the discretion to disregard the 12 months requirement before applying.

2. Can discretion to disregard the 12 months be based on the fact that someone has spent 15 years in UK.

GeneralGeorgina wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 19, 2022 9:41 am

secret.simon wrote,

"There is discretion to disregard the 12 months requirement, but you will have to give a good reason why they can't wait the 12 months. You may have to explain why the health reasons would matter."

2 Questions:

1. Please could you kindly provide HO email address where one can ask specific questions regarding the discretion to disregard the 12 months requirement before applying.
These are the addresses widely quoted:
Citizenship.Support@homeoffice.gov.uk
nationalityenquiries@homeoffice.gov.uk
I doubt you would get any direct/definitive answer with regard to "discretion" - whilst there are some rules around discretion any decision in the end is still by discretion ....

2. Can discretion to disregard the 12 months be based on the fact that someone has spent 15 years in UK.
From what I know long residency counts for very little, for example you still have to take an English test after 30 years in this country .... so I'd say not.

NB. re your earlier question on referees, being a member of a professional body I see members being taken before disciplinary committees for even minor issues. Lying to the government is a major one though with being being struck off, fined and of course criminal proceedings ....

Good afternoon everyone and happy Sunday to the experts here.
Thank you very much alterhase58.

Another Question:

Please is it possible to travel out of UK for a short visit when the Naturalization application is still in progress with the home office?

You are free to travel.

Please would the home offce not require the passport at some point?

GeneralGeorgina wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 27, 2022 2:52 pm

Please would the home offce not require the passport at some point?

No.

Thank you very much CR001

Does being a Permanent residence of another country prevent the UK naturalisation process?

GeneralGeorgina wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 27, 2022 4:37 pm

Does being a Permanent residence of another country prevent the UK naturalisation process?

It shouldn't.

Hi experts,

If Life in the UK test, English language, etc were already satisfied during the ILR application.
I am just wondering why these are subsequently needed during the naturalisation application again.

Thanks.

GeneralGeorgina wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 05, 2022 2:41 pm

Hi experts,

If Life in the UK test, English language, etc were already satisfied during the ILR application.
I am just wondering why these are subsequently needed during the naturalisation application again.

Thanks.

They do not need to be taken again, if that is your question.