church

lacey · Post by **lacey** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:42 pm

after speaking to my lawyer she told me that me and partner who has overtstayed his visa can get married in a n anglican chruch as they do not ask for proof of idenity and then apply for a marriage visa with that marriage certificate does anyone else have any information on this?

immigration1 · Post by **immigration1** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:05 pm

Yes you could get married in the Church of England without the need of a 'Certificate of Approval' from the HO and your partner could then apply for an FLR (M), theoretically. However, as he is an overstayer I doubt the HO will grant him 2 years 'probationary' leave to remain unless there are exceptional circumstances... He'd loose the fee. Why can't he return to his country of origin and make an application for a fiancee visa?

avjones · Post by **avjones** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:11 pm

Expect a vicar to ask some questions, it's not a turn-up-and-marry thing.

Are you both Anglicans? Members of a C of E church?

Depending which country he is from, he is very unlikely to get leave to remain without going home to apply for it.

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:21 pm

Agreed with all - it's not gonna give him a valid visa without going home and applying...

avjones · Post by **avjones** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:44 pm

Unless he's from a country where the AIT has stated (or there is STRONG evidence and no AIT case) where it is unreasonable to expect someone to return to make an application for entry clearance.

There is such as case in force for Afghanistan, for example, at the moment.

lacey · Post by **lacey** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:03 am

thanks guys. i undersatnd that its not a trunnup and marry thing. my lawyer said we should go to curch for a month and make our faces known and build up a relationship with the church members. after getting the marriage certifficate we can then apply for a spouse visa over here insted of going back to africa as we are afriad that if he goes home he will not be allowed back.
this is all causing alot of stress as we are so worried we will not be together and we dont have to money to go to africa and marry there

VictoriaS · Post by **VictoriaS** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:12 pm

But in-country switches are not being allowed either!

This is a terrible Catch 22...

Victoria

avjones · Post by **avjones** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:49 pm

[quote="lacey"] after getting the marriage certifficate we can then apply for a spouse visa over here insted of going back to africa as we are afriad that if he goes home he will not be allowed back./quote]

You can apply for a spouse visa here, but unless there are very special circumstances, he won't get it. He'll be told to go home and apply from there.

lacey · Post by **lacey** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:09 pm

how can we apply for a spouse visa if we are not married?!
our first plan was to go to his country get married there and apply for the spouse bisa but as my lawyer said there might be a chance to get married here it was worth trying as we are then leaglly married and can apply for the visa.
well i guess everyones cases are differnt and depends on their circumstances

avjones · Post by **avjones** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 1:59 am

I mean that after you are married, although you can apply in-country for a spouse visa, the overwhelming likelihood, unless very special circumstances apply, is that you will be told he has to go home and apply for entry clearance.

avjones · Post by **avjones** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:36 am

This was set out in the case of Mahmood.

In that case, an illegal entrant applied for leave to remain on the basis of his marriage. Laws LJ said at paragraph 23:

Firm immigration control requires consistency of treatment between one aspiring immigrant and another. If the established rule is to the effect as it is - that a person seeking rights of residence here on grounds of marriage (not being someone who already enjoys a leave, albeit limited, to remain in the UK) must obtain an entry clearance in his country of origin, then a waiver of that requirement in the case of someone who has found his way here without an entry clearance and then seeks to remain on marriage grounds, having no other legitimate claim to enter, would, in the absence of exceptional circumstances to justify the waiver, disrupt and undermine firm immigration control because it would be manifestly unfair to other would-be entrants who are content to take their place in the entry clearance queue in their country of origin.

VictoriaS · Post by **VictoriaS** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 1:42 pm

Amanda - what about the argument that now that ECO's are refusing people who have overstayed refusal of an in-country application will be a breach of article 8, as an out of country application is doomed to failure? Can't the guarantee of failure at the consulate be deemed as exceptional?

Okay, I'm grasping at straws now. I think that overstayers are stuffed.

Victoria

avjones · Post by **avjones** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 5:29 pm

Ive been thinking about trying to work up an argument along those lines.

The trouble is, the case law says the chances of entry clearance succeeding aren't relevant.

Mind you, I think it will go to proportionality under A 8(2)

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