1st Extension Granted with NRPF

Miss_tito · Post by **Miss_tito** » Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:09 am

Hi All,

Last week,my application for further leave to remain as the parent of a British child(Single parent) was granted but it came with a NRPF condition.

My first application was granted with recourse to public funds and my son was already claiming 30hrs of childcare prior to my recent application(1st extension) and child benefit(I have cancelled the child benefit)

My question is as follows:
- Is the 30hrs of nursery classified as public funds?
- If yes, what do I have to do to cancel it?
- Can I apply for 15hrs of free childcare or swap 30hrs for 15hrs?
- My leave was granted early last week but my son has been attending Nursery since Monday(after half term-Last week)
- Have I already breached the conditions of my visa by not cancelling the 30hrs yet since my recent visa was granted?

vinny · Post by **vinny** » Thu Nov 04, 2021 3:52 am

If the claimed item is not on the list of Public funds, then claiming it does not breach the NRPF condition.

Miss_tito · Post by **Miss_tito** » Thu Nov 04, 2021 8:42 am

vinny wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 04, 2021 3:52 am
If the claimed item is not on the list of Public funds, then claiming it does not breach the NRPF condition.

Thank you Vinny for your prompt response.
I have seen some threads about 30hrs of Childcare being classified as public fund and 15hrs not classified as public fund.

Has this changed? In my approval letter from the HO,there was a link to the various types of public funds but there was nothing about 30hrs of childcare there.

vinny · Post by **vinny** » Thu Nov 04, 2021 9:02 am

If childcare is not on the list, then claiming it does not breach the NRPF requirement. I’m unsure why the childcare hours would matter? Can you give a link to the other threads?

JB007 · Post by **JB007** » Thu Nov 04, 2021 11:38 am

Miss_tito wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 04, 2021 8:42 am
I have seen some threads about 30hrs of Childcare being classified as public fund and 15hrs not classified as public fund.

Perhaps best to read the government site?

30 hours free childcare
...

Eligibility

Your eligibility depends on:

if you are working
your income (and your partner’s income, if you have one)
your child’s age and circumstances
your immigration status
...

Your immigration status

To be eligible for 30 hours free childcare, you (or your partner if you have one) must have a National Insurance number and at least one of the following:

British or Irish citizenship
settled or pre-settled status, or you have applied and you’re waiting for a decision
permission to access public funds - your UK residence card will tell you if you cannot do this

https://www.gov.uk/30-hours-free-childcare

JB007 · Post by **JB007** » Thu Nov 04, 2021 11:56 am

JB007 wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 04, 2021 11:38 am

Miss_tito wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 04, 2021 8:42 am
I have seen some threads about 30hrs of Childcare being classified as public fund and 15hrs not classified as public fund.
Perhaps best to read the government site?

30 hours free childcare
...

Eligibility

Your eligibility depends on:

if you are working
your income (and your partner’s income, if you have one)
your child’s age and circumstances
your immigration status
...

Your immigration status

To be eligible for 30 hours free childcare, you (or your partner if you have one) must have a National Insurance number and at least one of the following:

British or Irish citizenship
settled or pre-settled status, or you have applied and you’re waiting for a decision
permission to access public funds - your UK residence card will tell you if you cannot do this

https://www.gov.uk/30-hours-free-childcare

The above about the 30 hours and it being public funds in some circumstances, is for England. If you live in the other nations of the UK (Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales) the above link gives a link to their childcare schemes.

JB007 · Post by **JB007** » Thu Nov 04, 2021 12:07 pm

No mention if the 15 hours being a public fund on that gov.uk link for England (as it does for the 30 hours free childcare in England).

15 hours free childcare for 3 and 4-year-olds

All 3 to 4-year-olds in England can get 570 free hours per year. It’s usually taken as 15 hours a week for 38 weeks of the year, but you can choose to take fewer hours over more weeks, for example.
https://www.gov.uk/help-with-childcare- ... -year-olds

Again, the above link has links to the NI, Scotland and Wales schemes.

vinny · Post by **vinny** » Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:07 pm

Thanks. See also the NRPF website. I wonder why they did not include this prohibition in the Public funds list nor guidance?

Miss_tito · Post by **Miss_tito** » Fri Nov 05, 2021 1:22 pm

JB007 wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 04, 2021 12:07 pm
No mention if the 15 hours being a public fund on that gov.uk link for England (as it does for the 30 hours free childcare in England).

15 hours free childcare for 3 and 4-year-olds

All 3 to 4-year-olds in England can get 570 free hours per year. It’s usually taken as 15 hours a week for 38 weeks of the year, but you can choose to take fewer hours over more weeks, for example.
https://www.gov.uk/help-with-childcare- ... -year-olds

Again, the above link has links to the NI, Scotland and Wales schemes.

Thank you JB007.
I spoke to HMRC on the phone yesterday and was told the 30hrs childcare is a public fund and that my child will be best suited to go for 15hrs a week since 3-4yrs olds are all entitled to that. In other words, the 15hrs childcare isn’t a public fund but 30hrs is.

I have since cancelled the 30hrs and my child will only go in for 15hrs a week. For this week,I was told to pay the outstanding balance(3hrs) to the nursery who promised to send me an invoice later next week.

Miss_tito · Post by **Miss_tito** » Fri Nov 05, 2021 1:25 pm

vinny wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:07 pm
Thanks. See also the NRPF website. I wonder why they did not include this prohibition in the Public funds list nor guidance?

Vinny, my thoughts exactly.
I was wondering if there is any reason they failed to include this to the list of public funds. I am trying to avoid stories that touch when applying for my 2nd extension.

I’m hoping it doesn’t become an issue then since I’ll be paying for the extra 3hrs used this week

vinny · Post by **vinny** » Fri Nov 05, 2021 1:41 pm

If you had informed them that you were subject to the NRPF condition and they still gave you the benefit, then it’s not your fault. If they are no longer paying the benefit, then I think you should also be okay.

JB007 · Post by **JB007** » Fri Nov 05, 2021 3:04 pm

vinny wrote: ↑
Fri Nov 05, 2021 1:41 pm
If you had informed them that you were subject to the NRPF condition and they still gave you the benefit, then it’s not your fault. If they are no longer paying the benefit, then I think you should also be okay.

An admistrative error does not mean the claimant does not have to pay the money back.

To not affect the visa, it appears the claimant needs proof that they told the relevant agency that they were NRPF.

For some public funds, the claimant recieves a letter with the details held of their claim and it is up to the claimant to check those details are correct and tell the relevant agency that the details held are not correct: not doing so appears not to be an administative error.

JB007 · Post by **JB007** » Fri Nov 05, 2021 3:12 pm

Miss_tito wrote: ↑
Fri Nov 05, 2021 1:25 pm

vinny wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:07 pm
Thanks. See also the NRPF website. I wonder why they did not include this prohibition in the Public funds list nor guidance?
Vinny, my thoughts exactly.
I was wondering if there is any reason they failed to include this to the list of public funds. I am trying to avoid stories that touch when applying for my 2nd extension.

It was clearly mentioned that this is a public fund on the the gov.uk "30 hours free childcare", web page, as my quote above shows. That page also explained who can still have this if a partner is NRPF.

It's often just a case of looking on the gov.uk page to see who can have that benefit.

Citizen advice makes it quite clear that a claimant won't be told what they claimed is a public fund and that it is up to the vidsa holder to not take public funds if they are not allowed them, by talking to a specialist immigration advisor.

JB007 · Post by **JB007** » Fri Nov 05, 2021 3:34 pm

Miss_tito wrote: ↑
Fri Nov 05, 2021 1:25 pm

vinny wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:07 pm
Thanks. See also the NRPF website. I wonder why they did not include this prohibition in the Public funds list nor guidance?

That guidance states it is for immigration staff.

Immigration staff guidance for how to make decisions about what UK public funds foreign nationals can claim and what action it must take if they claim funds they are not entitled to.

At some point I guess they will realise they also have to check the 30 hours free childcare public fund too?

From Citizens Advice-

What you can apply for if you’re subject to immigration control for benefits and services

Don’t apply for anything included in ‘public funds’ - unless you know there’s an exception in your situation. If you do, you might be breaking the conditions of your stay (what you can and can’t do in the UK). You could be taken to court. You might be told you have to leave the UK - if you don't, you could be detained and deported.

You won’t be told if a benefit or service is included in public funds when you apply, so it’s important to check for yourself.
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/immig ... n-control/

The government clearly states the 30 free childcare as a public fund for those hoping to claim this.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/public-funds

vinny · Post by **vinny** » Sat Nov 06, 2021 4:07 am

JB007 wrote: ↑
Fri Nov 05, 2021 3:34 pm
The government clearly states the 30 free childcare as a public fund for those hoping to claim this.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/public-funds

Where in the Public Funds caseworker guidance did it clearly state that? Searching for “childcare” or “child care” did not find any matches?

vinny · Post by **vinny** » Sat Nov 06, 2021 8:51 am

To be absolutely certain, we may have to trawl through s115 of the Immigration and Asylum Act 1999 and the definition of Public funds in the rules.

Can you see any references to “childcare” being a Public fund for Immigration purposes?

We can also look at;

The Childcare (Early Years Provision Free of Charge) (Extended Entitlement) Regulations 2016 (law),

Guidance (interpretation of law) and

amendments, etc?

JB007 · Post by **JB007** » Sat Nov 06, 2021 10:31 am

vinny wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 06, 2021 8:51 am
To be absolutely certain, we may have to trawl through s115 of the Immigration and Asylum Act 1999 and the definition of Public funds in the rules.

Can you see any references to “childcare” being a Public fund for Immigration purposes?

We can also look at;

The Childcare (Early Years Provision Free of Charge) (Extended Entitlement) Regulations 2016 (law),

Guidance (interpretation of law) and

amendments, etc?

Instead of having to trawl through various things to see what you can take, the easiest way is look on the gov.uk site for the page of what you were hoping to take. In this case, a quick internet seach of the words gov.uk 30 hours free childcare brought up the answer to who is allowed to have this. Keep it simple. And always check for yourself.

vinny · Post by **vinny** » Sat Nov 06, 2021 10:41 am

If the Government website contains inconsistent information, then unsure which information is correct and lawful? Hence, may perhaps search through the various legislations to check and be certain. Unfortunately, there appears to be no current helpful judgments to guide us.

JB007 · Post by **JB007** » Sat Nov 06, 2021 11:13 am

JB007 wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 06, 2021 10:31 am

vinny wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 06, 2021 8:51 am
To be absolutely certain, we may have to trawl through s115 of the Immigration and Asylum Act 1999 and the definition of Public funds in the rules.

Can you see any references to “childcare” being a Public fund for Immigration purposes?

We can also look at;

The Childcare (Early Years Provision Free of Charge) (Extended Entitlement) Regulations 2016 (law),

Guidance (interpretation of law) and

amendments, etc?
Instead of having to trawl through various things to see what you can take, the easiest way is look on the gov.uk site for the page of what you were hoping to take. In this case, a quick internet seach of the words gov.uk 30 hours free childcare brought up the answer to who is allowed to have this. Keep it simple. And always check for yourself.

Adding again to avoid confusion: this is for those living in England and that those migrants without settlement in the other 3 nations, should check the chilldcare schemes of the country they are living in to see if they are public funds.

JB007 · Post by **JB007** » Sat Nov 06, 2021 11:22 am

vinny wrote: ↑
Sat Nov 06, 2021 10:41 am
If the Government website contains inconsistent information, then unsure which information is correct and lawful? Hence, may perhaps search through the various legislations to check and be certain. Unfortunately, there appears to be no current helpful judgments to guide us.

If somebody if going to another country for what they can take, it might be better to do research before they travel? e.g. If its chlidcare you want for free, reasearch lots of countries.

vinny · Post by **vinny** » Sat Nov 06, 2021 1:44 pm

Ah, I think I see now.

Conditions to be met by the person making the declaration

11. The person who makes the declaration must—
[F1
(a) be—

(i) the parent with whom the young child in respect of whom the declaration is being made normally lives, or that parent's partner, or

(ii) the foster parent with whom the young child in respect of whom the declaration is being made is placed;]

(b) be in the United Kingdom (within the meaning provided in regulation 12) on the date of the declaration; and

(c) where the young child in respect of whom the declaration is being made is a child in respect of whom an active childcare account under section 17(3) of the Childcare Payments Act 2014 F2 is held, be the account-holder (within the meaning of section 15(10) of that Act) for that account.

Being in the United Kingdom

12.—
(1) Subject to paragraph (2), the following persons are treated for the purposes of regulation 11 as being in the United Kingdom—
(a) a person who is ordinarily resident in the United Kingdom;

(b) a resident of another EEA state who is in paid work in the United Kingdom;

(c) a person in the United Kingdom as a refugee within the definition in Article 1 of the Convention relating to the Status of Refugees done at Geneva on 28th July 1951, as extended by Article 1(2) of the Protocol relating to the Status of Refugees done at New York on 31st January 1967;

(d) a person in the United Kingdom who has been granted, or who is deemed to have been granted, leave outside the rules (the “Immigration Rules”) made under section 3(2) of the Immigration Act 1971 F1 where that leave is—

(i) discretionary leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom;

(ii) leave to remain under the Destitution Domestic Violence concession F2; or

(iii) leave deemed to have been granted by virtue of regulation 3 of the Displaced Persons (Temporary Protection) Regulations 2005 F3;

(e) a person in the United Kingdom who has humanitarian protection granted under the Immigration Rules;

(f) a person in the United Kingdom who has been deported, expelled or otherwise removed by compulsion of law from another country to the United Kingdom, but is not a person subject to immigration control.

(2) But the following persons are treated for the purposes of regulation 11 as not being in the United Kingdom—
(a) a person in the United Kingdom who—

(i) is resident in the United Kingdom but is taxed, by virtue of double taxation arrangements, as if they were not so resident; and

(ii) is not a resident of another EEA state who is in paid work in the United Kingdom;

(b) a person who is subject to immigration control.
(3) In this regulation—
“double taxation arrangements” means arrangements that have effect under section 2(1) of the Taxation (International and Other Provisions) Act 2010 F4 (giving effect to arrangements made in relation to other territories);
“person subject to immigration control” has the meaning in section 115(9) of the Immigration and Asylum Act 1999 F5.

Where 115(9)

“A person subject to immigration control” means a person F18... who—
(a) requires leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom but does not have it;

(b) has leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom which is subject to a condition that he does not have recourse to public funds;

(c) has leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom given as a result of a maintenance undertaking; or

(d) has leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom only as a result of paragraph 17 of Schedule 4.

The Childcare (Early Years Provision Free of Charge) (Extended Entitlement) Regulations 2016 considers a No Recourse to Public Funds (NRPF) claimant as not being in the UK and hence, cannot claim.

Eledumare · Post by **Eledumare** » Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:14 pm

Miss_tito wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:09 am
Hi All,

Last week,my application for further leave to remain as the parent of a British child(Single parent) was granted but it came with a NRPF condition.

My first application was granted with recourse to public funds and my son was already claiming 30hrs of childcare prior to my recent application(1st extension) and child benefit(I have cancelled the child benefit)

My question is as follows:
- Is the 30hrs of nursery classified as public funds?
- If yes, what do I have to do to cancel it?
- Can I apply for 15hrs of free childcare or swap 30hrs for 15hrs?
- My leave was granted early last week but my son has been attending Nursery since Monday(after half term-Last week)
- Have I already breached the conditions of my visa by not cancelling the 30hrs yet since my recent visa was granted?

Hi i'm just wondering, why you weren't granted access to public fund for your first exemption. Did you ask for it to be granted and they refused? or they made a decision without considering you were already receiving the public funds.

Miss_tito · Post by **Miss_tito** » Thu Jan 13, 2022 2:21 am

I asked that the recourse to public funds be granted for my extension but it was granted without it(I got the recourse to PF added to my initial visa during covid as I was on furlough at the time). I’m guessing the reason had more to do with my new pay at the time of my application which was £60k/PA. I believe that was factored in when deciding whether to approve it with either public funds or NRTPF

Eledumare wrote: ↑
Mon Jan 10, 2022 8:14 pm

Miss_tito wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:09 am
Hi All,

Last week,my application for further leave to remain as the parent of a British child(Single parent) was granted but it came with a NRPF condition.

My first application was granted with recourse to public funds and my son was already claiming 30hrs of childcare prior to my recent application(1st extension) and child benefit(I have cancelled the child benefit)

My question is as follows:
- Is the 30hrs of nursery classified as public funds?
- If yes, what do I have to do to cancel it?
- Can I apply for 15hrs of free childcare or swap 30hrs for 15hrs?
- My leave was granted early last week but my son has been attending Nursery since Monday(after half term-Last week)
- Have I already breached the conditions of my visa by not cancelling the 30hrs yet since my recent visa was granted?
Hi i'm just wondering, why you weren't granted access to public fund for your first exemption. Did you ask for it to be granted and they refused? or they made a decision without considering you were already receiving the public funds.

hussain1988 · Post by **hussain1988** » Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:45 pm

Hi

Miss_tito

When you was granted access to public funds did it state that on your brp card or they left it blank and say it on the decision letter.

Cause im confused my wife does not have anything Writtle on her brp card remarks section its blank bit on her decision letter it said she is eligible for benefits but i cant find the decision letter now.

Eledumare · Post by **Eledumare** » Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:11 pm

hussain1988 wrote: ↑
Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:45 pm
Hi

Miss_tito

When you was granted access to public funds did it state that on your brp card or they left it blank and say it on the decision letter.

Cause im confused my wife does not have anything Writtle on her brp card remarks section its blank bit on her decision letter it said she is eligible for benefits but i cant find the decision letter now.

I have recourse to public fund and my card is blank. i believe they state on the card if she didn't have access.

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