Benefits : affecting ILR? Read before starting new topic.

John · Post by **John** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:56 pm

Just to be clear - the accepted way here is to claim HB and CTB as a single applicant and not complete the partner side of the forms.

And then at the end of the forms, where it asks for additional information enter my spouses NI number etc and any earnings?

I like it! And totally endorse that methodology.

What then about single persons discount for the Council Tax? I suppose I would not then qualify for this.

Not unless, for example, the newly-arrived spouse becomes a student. Apart from that, as soon as that person moves in there is a requirement to tell the Council that the 25% discount needs to be stopped.

When my own wife first came to the UK in 2001 she was indeed a full-time student, as defined, for a few months, further improving her already good English. For that period I did indeed claim the 25% discount.

Siren · Post by **Siren** » Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:44 pm

Thank you John for clarifying that - that helps a lot

Your suggestion to involve my councillor, too, is looking hopeful. Below, is a copy of the message sent to him and forwarded to the housing benefit office. Next step failing this - my MP!

Heartiest regards,

Simon

Hi Councillor xyz,

Subject: Housing benefit claim where applicants wife has spouse visa with "no recourse to public funds".

Further to your telephone chat, I would be grateful if you could help me with this issue.

My local council are insisting according to their DWP Housing Benefit guidelines (for partners of applicants on a spouse visa with no recourse to public funds) that I, the sponsoring UK national, am required to submit my housing benefit claim with the name and details of both my wife and I fully included on the HB form just as would be the case for a married couple with no immigration restrictions.

However, this would result in me receiving an increase in Housing Benefit payments which would mean my wife would be in breach of her "no recourse to public funds" visa restriction, as outlined in Border Agency Home office Immigration Law (see relevant sections copied below). According to Border Agency guidelines, this would result in the denial of my wife's residency application 2 years down the line at the end of her spouse visa probationary period.

I have copied the relevant section from the above link showing Housing benefit and Council Tax Benefit listed as Public Funds (my highlight in bold):

"public funds" means

(b) attendance allowance, severe disablement allowance, carer's allowance and disability living allowance under Part III of the Social Security Contribution and Benefits Act 1992;, income support, council tax benefit and housing benefit under Part VII of that Act; a social fund payment under Part VIII of that Act; child benefit under Part IX of that Act; income based jobseeker's allowance under the Jobseekers Act 1995, income related allowance under Part 1 of the Welfare Reform Act 2007 (employment and support allowance) state pension credit under the State Pension Credit Act 2002; or child tax credit and working tax credit under Part 1 of the Tax Credits Act 2002.

Clarification of recourse to public funds is provided in 6A - 6C at the end of the page linked above:

6A. For the purpose of these Rules, a person (P) is not to be regarded as having (or potentially having) recourse to public funds merely because P is (or will be) reliant in whole or in part on public funds provided to P's sponsor unless, as a result of P's presence in the United Kingdom, the sponsor is (or would be) entitled to increased or additional public funds (save where such entitlement to increased or additional public funds is by virtue of P and the sponsor's joint entitlement to benefits under the regulations referred to in paragraph 6B).

6B. Subject to paragraph 6C, a person (P) shall not be regarded as having recourse to public funds if P is entitled to benefits specified under section 115 of the Immigration and Asylum Act 1999 by virtue of regulations made under sub-sections (3) and (4) of that section or section 42 of the Tax Credits Act 2002.

6C. A person (P) making an application from outside the United Kingdom will be regarded as having recourse to public funds where P relies upon the future entitlement to any public funds that would be payable to P or to P's sponsor as a result of P's presence in the United Kingdom, (including those benefits to which P or the sponsor would be entitled as a result of P's presence in the United Kingdom under the regulations referred to in to paragraph 6B)".

The Border Agency also explain the same guidelines in a document "Public Funds" - which outlines what UK public funds foreign nationals can claim.

On Page 46 it states:

"Most categories in the Immigration Rules require people to be able to maintain and accommodate themselves without having recourse to public funds. A person should not necessarily be refused leave if their sponsor relies on public funds.

You must check if the applicant has declared on their application form that their sponsor is claiming public funds. You must then check with the relevant issuing authority whether the amount of funds the sponsor receives would increase as a result of the applicant joining them.

Paragraphs 6A-6C of the Immigration Rules explains what the position is when an applicant is not claiming public funds themselves but their sponsor relies on public funds

If a sponsor needs to claim more public funds to support the applicant, you must refuse the application. For example, if the sponsor claims income-based jobseeker’s allowance and this would increase if their dependant was granted leave as their spouse. You must refuse the application under the relevant paragraph of the category under which leave is being sought with reference to paragraph 6A of the rules.

If the sponsor needs to claim more public funds to support the applicant but these are funds that the sponsor and dependant would be jointly entitled to you must not refuse the application. For example, if the increased funds fall under the tax credits regulations, such as Working or Child Tax Credits, then you must not regard the applicant as having accessed public funds."

In order to avoid this breach of the "no recourse to public funds" restriction with housing benefit applications, it has been shown several times by others in the same or similar situations up and down the land that the accepted defacto standard here is to apply as a single person while informing the local authority of any income or savings the partner has. For the sake of securing my future with my wife here in the UK and not undoing the considerable work done to get this far, this is what I would like to do. Your assistance is greatly appreciated.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... d01f96083d

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... 67b7fe1ed7

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=26916

Many thanks for helping.

Simon

Siren · Post by **Siren** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:39 am

John and all,

I think it could be helpful, to encourage my local council (Carlisle) to grant me housing benefit as a single person only while including my wife's NI number and any income and savings in the recommended way, to provide examples of councils who have already done this.

So, if you have experience of this with a council or know of a council who has implemented this please could you name that council and if possible provide a name and contact number (even if privately to me) of the person in that council who either did this or, generally, can testify that the council have done so.

The more examples that can be shown to my local council, which, maybe could call these councils which have implemented this policy the more chance I think there is of them following suit.

By refusing to do this, Carlisle council are it seems to me, refusing me my, legitimate, right to not claim that portion of benefit I am entitled to (ie for me wife). If I wish to claim for me and not my wife why should I not be permitted to do so?

Thank you John / guys.

Simon

Siren · Post by **Siren** » Sat Jul 14, 2012 12:00 am

Subj: RE: HB claim where applicants wife has spouse visa with "no recourse to publ...

Dear Cllr M

Thank you for the attached query.

As Simon quite rightly states a ‘person will be regarded as having recourse to public funds if someone else’s benefit is increased because of their presence’.

For Income Support, income-based Jobseeker’s Allowance and income-based Employment & Support allowance, when one member of a couple is a ‘person subject to immigration control’ there is a modified applicable amount (what the law says you need to live on) which makes it impossible for the claimant to receive more benefit: at most the partner’s presence is neutral or if they have any income or capital or if they work full-time they may reduce or cancel benefit entitlement.

Unfortunately, Housing & Council Tax Benefit legislation does not have these modified applicable amounts, so a partner who is a ‘person subject to immigration control’ can have an advantageous effect on the means test and, in the case of Council Tax benefit, the loss of the Council Tax single person discount can technically increase the amount of benefit paid. I understand that there has been a case of someone being refused Indefinite Leave to Remain because of this very fact.

The advice given by the Child Poverty Action Group is ‘If the amount of Housing & Council Tax Benefit payable is more than it would have been had the family member(s) not been included in the claim, no claim should be made’

It is possible that some Local Authorities are prepared to act outside the law and assess such claimants as ‘single people’, however, I do not know if this is common practice. However, as stated above, there is no modification of Housing & Council Tax Benefit legislation to allow the Authority to assess Simon as a single claimant and this is also reflected in Paragraph 4.218 of The Housing and Council Tax Guidance Manual that can be found on www.dwp.gov.uk.

Even if Simon were allowed to claim as a single person, declaring his own and his Wife’s income on the claim, it is possible, because his Council Tax Liability will be that of a couple rather than a single person with a 25% discount, that he could inadvertently increase his Council Tax Benefit entitlement as a result of his Wife’s presence. Note I have said may because it would depend on his actual entitlement which I cannot calculate without details of his income, capital and Council Tax Liability.

I think in the circumstances you are right to suggest Simon contacts his MP, since it would appear that a change in the law is the only remedy for the current situation as regards his Housing and Council Tax Benefit entitlement/recourse to public funds.

Hope this is of some assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any queries.

Regards

Karen O
Welfare Advice Services Manager

John · Post by **John** » Sat Jul 14, 2012 7:04 am

That is of course very disappointing. As suggested I would now contact your MP in an endeavour to get the regulations changed.

Siren · Post by **Siren** » Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:02 pm

Frustrating that some councils are prepared to adopt a more pragmatic approach and, in the view of my replyer, operate outside the law...

Actually that reply is from the councils benefit advice centre rather than the benefit issuing office itself and, I wonder whether there's any chance my council would be amenable to permitting my single claim if they were able to talk to a council who have adopted such a practice?

Failing that, my wife could always live next door with my parents but this would, of course, mean we would not be eligible for the married persons working tax premium. Maybe I should work out which is more valuable to me, WTC or HB?

Meanwhile I have requested my MP to look into it but, of course, going down a change in law path is not going to help us in our situation.

Szilvi · Post by **Szilvi** » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:49 pm

It's been established several times in this forum (by moderators and alike) that CTC, WTC and CB WILL NOT HINDER AN ILR APPLICATION
IF
the claimant is a british citizen (it is their right to claim it).

Hi, what if I'm an EEA citizen? Can I still apply for these? We also got a council house recently. My husband got permanent residence card which will expire in 2015. After that we want to aplly for ILR. I started to read the topic but I all spouse was british citizen.

John · Post by **John** » Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:44 pm

You are an EEA Citizen? Your spouse is currently a non-EEA citizen, here in the UK on a Residence Card? If so neither of you is within the definition of "person subject to immigration control", and as long as you are not exercising Treaty Rights as a self-sufficient person, those benefit claims are no a problem.

You mention applying for ILR. Suspect you actually mean PR ..... Permanent Residence.

Szilvi · Post by **Szilvi** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:15 am

Thanks a lot.
Sorry, my english is not very good. Could you explain what "exercising Treaty Rights as a self-sufficient person" mean? I've lived in the UK for 5 years and worked for 4 years. I'm on maternity leave untill end of September (I take 56 weeks).

He's got residence card of a family member of an eea national(I was wrong, it's not permanent) and we would like to apply for British citizenship.

We've receiving WTC, CTC and CB.

John · Post by **John** » Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:17 am

Based upon what you have posted, even though you are currently on maternity leave, you are still classed for Treaty purposes as a "Worker", that is, as an employed person.

Accordingly there is no problem you and your husband claiming the benefits that you mention.

hi5 · Post by **hi5** » Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:01 pm

Hi all ,

Me and my wife just received ILR . my wife is house wife , can we claim child benift. child age is 18month ?

Many thanks in advance for your help !

John · Post by **John** » Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:09 pm

Now that both of you have your ILRs, there is no problem benefit claims being made for any benefits that your personal circumstances dictate you are entitled to.

This will certainly include Child Benefit, and also Tax Credits if the family income is not too high.

hi5 · Post by **hi5** » Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:16 pm

John wrote:Now that both of you have your ILRs, there is no problem benefit claims being made for any benefits that your personal circumstances dictate you are entitled to.

This will certainly include Child Benefit, and also Tax Credits if the family income is not too high.

many thanks john

rekameohs · Post by **rekameohs** » Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:04 am

Hey, I was just granted ILR, my husband is a British citizen, we have been going through some rough times with money due to my carpal tunnel syndrome (CTS) and he wanted to know since I now have ILR he wanted to know what benefits I myself can claim. I have worked in the UK over about 98% of my time living here. I just need some advice and some pointers on where to go about all this.

Thanks everyone.

John · Post by **John** » Sat Aug 11, 2012 7:57 am

Are you working now? Your husband working? Any children in your household?

These are factors that will determine what sort of benefits might be claimable.

rekameohs · Post by **rekameohs** » Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:53 am

My husband works part time with a 20 hour contract, I am currently unemployed. But my husband is on sick leave at the moment.

John · Post by **John** » Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:34 am

In the UK there is no unemployment benefit, and there has not been for many years. What there is is Job Seeker's Allowance. Are you job seeking? Signing on at the Job Centre +?

Or are you medically unfit for work, and therefore not able to job seek? In which case you might be entitled to another benefit.

Given the complexity of this, you and your husband might want to contact an organisation such as Citizens Advice Bureau, and get them to run through the benefits that the two of you might be entitled to.

rekameohs · Post by **rekameohs** » Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:09 am

Thank you very much, I will call the CAB tomorrow

I really appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions.

virenque · Post by **virenque** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:18 pm

OK, hope I'm posting this in the right place and not upsetting anybody

I've basically being having a tough time of it the last couple of years and have done very little work, leaving me in this situation. Which I completely accept is of my own doing

I've read this forum as a lurker before and tried to take information in as best I can, so without further ado, my situation:

My wife applied for ILR (Set(M)) at the end of April (She entered in 2008, which makes us applying under the old rules, I think?), we have two children and I have been claiming CTC(Jointly), CB(My name), LHA(Jointly I think, but council are fully aware my wife has no recourse to public funds. We have two children and are receiving the allowance for two bedrooms, so my wife doesn't change the award in anyway) and CTB(same situation). I'm correct in thinking that none of these benefits will affect the application aren't I?
We received the Biometrics letter in June and followed that procedure as instructed. We've now been asked for council tax bills, tax credits letters for next year, current account statements (I sent details of our savings account first time around) and a further 5 official documents addressed to both of us. Does this just sound like the caseworker wanting to check that I am receiving the benefits that I claimed I was and whether it is sufficient to live on? (We also have £10000 saved in the previously submitted savings account if this helps)
Reading this thread http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=104025 makes me worry as I am not not getting £1000 after rent has been paid, we actually get less than half of that

But I think that only applies to those wanting leave to enter the uk, so not applicable to our situation hopefully?
I'm trying not to stress out too much at this stage, but when the stakes are so high, it's hard not to

My wife's friend was in a similar situation (without the savings) and only received FLR in february, as she had failed to complete the LITUK test. So I was expecting things to be easier for us, but apparently not.

John · Post by **John** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:17 am

virenque, when the SET(M) application was made, what evidence of the two of you living together did you provide?

Just trying to understand the background as to why they are requesting documents at this time.

virenque · Post by **virenque** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:44 am

To be honest the usual types of letters, I tend to keep things in my name only, but tenancy agreements(my name), utility bills(my name), tax credit awards(joint), NHS letter(Wife's). The same kinds of letters I sent for the previous two successful applications really. I have nothing to hide, so I'm not too concerned about that aspect of it. It's more the financial side of things I'm worrying about.

Greenie · Post by **Greenie** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:55 am

It sounds like they are more interested in evidence of living together to me. What exactly does the letter say?

virenque · Post by **virenque** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:10 am

It just asks for additional documents to further consider the application. I've got a few more jointly addressed letters to send from official sources, but to be honest I can't imagine my application is particularly weak in that regard. Like I said, I have nothing to hide, so that side of things is more an annoyance than a problem .

Greenie · Post by **Greenie** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:18 am

From the documents you have listed above only one was in your wife's name which is probably why they have asked for more documents in joint names.

virenque · Post by **virenque** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:01 am

Ok, thanks for the feedback, I have another 5 jointly addressed documents to send in, so I should be fine in that aspect. How about my other questions? I'm entitled to claim the benefits aren't I? Is the financial side something to worry about or will it probably not be an issue? Would it be a good idea to include a cover letter and if so what should I include in it?

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Benefits : affecting ILR? Read before starting new topic.

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