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Detailed Public Funds guidance

Questions and discussions about claiming benefits while living and working in the UK

Moderators: Casa, Amber, archigabe, batleykhan, ca.funke, ChetanOjha, EUsmileWEallsmile, JAJ, John, Obie, push, geriatrix, vinny, Zimba

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John
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Post by John » Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:29 pm

As regards the friend, I am not sure there is a problem. But please clarify, the friend's claim, is it in the joint names of him and his wife?
John

flick22
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claiming child benefit and child tax credit.

Post by flick22 » Fri Jan 13, 2012 6:37 pm

Thanks,yeah both names and the wife is also working.thanks for your quick response.we recieved a letter today saying that my wife details have now been ammended regards our recent changes to her claim, thanks to your advice.

SgtBellPepper
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Post by SgtBellPepper » Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:26 pm

Hi John,

First off, let me say a huge thanks for all the time and effort you spend on this forum helping people out.

I have read many of your posts with interest.

I know it's been covered a million times but perhaps you can put my wife's mind at rest.

I am a BC and married to a non-EU citizen. We have 3 children (2 BC and 1 non-BC). They are currently in the process of applying for ILR on SET(M) as spouse and child dependant.

We are currently in receipt of the following : CB, CTC, and HB.

I noted on the form under the question of public funds, yes, and ticked the relevant boxes under my name.

So to be very clear, as there seems to be confusion, and conflicting posts even on this forum.

Are we ok with having claimed the above, and was I right in ticking yes on the form and under my name only?

Again thanks for your patient help.

My kindest regards to you!

SgtBellPepper
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Post by SgtBellPepper » Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:28 pm

Hi John,

Can the silence be taken as I am correct in my assumption that all is ok?

Thanks.

John
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Post by John » Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:32 pm

I noted on the form under the question of public funds, yes, and ticked the relevant boxes under my name.
That is the action that has been taken by others, and it did not cause a problem for them.

The problem is that the form is badly-designed, and really does not cope with the actual legislation, so your action is probably the best in the circumstances.
John

fajr
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Post by fajr » Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:15 pm

John wrote: The problem is that the form is badly-designed, and really does not cope with the actual legislation, so your action is probably the best in the circumstances.
Thanks very much for your information. I had the same question and found the answers..

Though I take your words, but can you point me to the legislation that you have mentioned please? any weblink?

Reading what says in UKBA website is very confusing.

- you have adequate accommodation ... without needing public funds
- both of you can support yourselves ... without needing public funds

As like SgtBelPepper (and many others), I am (already in ILR) claiming benefits (CB & HB) under my name and CTC in joint name (but credit goes to my account) and applying for my wife's ILR.

My question is that why UKBA web information is different than what is in the legislation (that you have mentioned)?

Thanks for reassuring...

John
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Post by John » Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:13 pm

Your problem is that you are equating "benefits" and "public funds", but in fact not every benefit paid by the Government is within the definition of Public Funds.

The starting definition of Public Funds is in para 6 of the Immigration Rules, but even that is not the end of the story. Following para 6 are three short paras, 6A, 6B and 6C, which effectively alter the definition of Public Funds in specified circumstances.
John

fajr
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Post by fajr » Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:45 am

John wrote:Your problem is that you are equating "benefits" and "public funds", but in fact not every benefit paid by the Government is within the definition of Public Funds.
Thanks John for your expert reply. I read the Public Fund pdf document in UKBA website.

CTC, CB and HB are within public funds definition but with exceptions.

I hope that I am alright for claiming those benefits and won't affect my wife's ILR application..

John
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Post by John » Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:03 pm

As regards the claims for CB and CTC, those are covered by para 6B.

The HB is covered by para 6A, and it would be a problem if more HB was being paid because your wife is living there. However given that you clearly have child/children in your household, it is the case that it is impossible for more HB to be paid because your wife is there.

In short, those benefit claims are totally OK.
John

fajr
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Post by fajr » Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:19 pm

John wrote:
The HB is covered by para 6A, and it would be a problem if more HB was being paid because your wife is living there. However given that you clearly have child/children in your household, it is the case that it is impossible for more HB to be paid because your wife is there.

In short, those benefit claims are totally OK.
Thanks very much John, reassuring.. Now also I know where to refer to if case worker argue.. hope that will not be the case..

Siren
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Post by Siren » Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:42 am

Hi John,


Would the amount of public funds the sponsor be getting be still regarded as having increased if the sponsored partner subject to public funds restriction finds enough work to cancel out the increase in HB / CTB benefit due from a joint claim? Or would UKBA still say that the amount with the sponsored person working be more than the amount would be on a single claim if the sponsor had been working to earn the same amount as the sponsored person was earning?


Also, in any case I understand that if there were an increase in HB/CTB the future application for ILR would necessarily be declined. In that case do they allow you to extend your probationary period say with a FLR application if you are by that time working and not in receipt of extra public funds?


In any case, if we did decide to go ahead and claim the HB as a couple, would the resultant breach of public funds restriction be held against future applications for settlement further down the line ie an application made outside the UK after satisfying all the other conditions required in that case such as living together abroad for at least 4 years? Or would such an application stand or fall on its own merits regardless of previous probationary public funds access? Maybe they would pay extra attention when scrutinising future visa applications and there would be an additional burden of proof upon us to prove we would not be accessing public funds?


Our situation is that my wife has not yet found work and I am receipt of WTC and HB/CTB. We are considering living and working abroad but weighing up whether or not to access the increased HB as a result of claiming as a couple in the mean time. On the one hand we really could do with the extra funds while we get more work between us but on the other hand our goal is to live abroad with my spouse having a UK passport so that we dont have to apply for visa's every time she comes back to the UK and of course for her to be able to work here whenever we are home too. The reason for wanting to live abroad is that I have a health condition that leaves me incapacitated during the colder months here in the UK. If it wasn't for this I would be working here full time and we could successfully apply for settlement in 2 years.


Many thanks again,


Siren

wiggsy
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Post by wiggsy » Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:02 am

so universal credits is coming up...

this will replace the following benefits:

Tax credits (both CTC / WTC)
income support
JSA (IR)
ESA (IR)
Housing Benefit

So, knowing that DWP are administering UC i put a freedom of information request in...

Looks like many people will loose out:


If you have NRPF you wont be able to claim UC at the couple rate, even if you could claim TC at the couple rate...

UC wont give you the "if one has recourse, both have it" option.

my FOI request is here:
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/u ... rtner_wh_2
How will Universal Credits treat a couple which consists of one British Citizen with
Children, and their non-EEA national partner/wife ETC who has “No Recourse to Public
Funds”.

If someone who is eligible to claim Universal Credit has a partner who is a person subject to
immigration control with no recourse to public funds, only the eligible claimant will be entitled to
an award. However the partner’s income/capital will be taken into account when assessing the
means of the whole household, and this will affect the amount of the claimant’s award.

Siren
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Post by Siren » Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:35 am

Universal Credit will start to take new claims from unemployed people in October 2013. For people in work this process will begin in April 2014.

The remainder of current claims will be moved to Universal Credit from 2014, with the process being complete by 2017.

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/universal-credit-faqs.pdf

John
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Post by John » Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:58 am

wiggsy, that is interesting, but to my knowledge the detailed regulations have yet to be laid before Parliament. Looking at the way Tax Credits were introduced the regulations were laid about 2 or 3 months before Tax Credits started to be paid.

And it is the Tax Credits (Immigration) Regulations 2003 that are of interest to many readers of this board.
John

Siren
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WTC is now PUBLIC FUNDS! Rule Change-no second adult element

Post by Siren » Mon Mar 04, 2013 7:53 pm

Sorry John, did you see this..

Just had the following letter. So we are now £1500 down! Anyone know anything about this? I am assuming it is part and parcel of latest cuts. I will call them...

Dear Mr Siren

A change to tax credit rules

There has been a change to the tax credit entitlement rules that affects some customers who are subject to immigration control. Because of this, there is a change to your entitlement to Working Tax Credit.

As Mrs Siren has not yet established their right to stay permanently in the UK they will not have access to public funds in the same way as those who already have.

How this affects your tax credits entitlement

You are still entitled to claim tax credits and you will still need to claim as a couple. But, you are no longer entitled to the second adult element of Working Tax credit. This means that we may reduce the amount of your tax credits award from 25 June 2012.

I enclose a decision notice that sets out your new Working Tax Credit entitlement in more detail.

Your sincerely

Processing Officer.

John
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Post by John » Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:52 pm

Siren, that particular change was introduced 2 or 3 years ago.

I presume that the two of you have no children? I ask that because the restriction only applies to a couple who do not have children.
John

Siren
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Post by Siren » Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:29 pm

Hi John,

Thanks for that confirmation my friend.

Yes as of this time, we don't have children.

I don't know why I did not know about this in all my time on this board - all I read was that the foreign spouse would go on the WTC application - maybe I just assumed that with the spouse included, the couple premium would also follow. Maybe this was no where stated and all it has been saying is that the payment for the claimant part of WTC is not affected.

Oh well - I thought I had it but I lost it ! At least I still have my portion.

Thank you John,

Blessing, Siren

rachellynn1972
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Post by rachellynn1972 » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:15 am

I am sorry to ask this question here but i think i can get answer. do a family member of an eea holding a residence card need to pass the habitual residence test? in uk nearly all my life and have work for more than 15yrs before becoming permanentely incapacitated and my partner apply to be my carer and i am puting him into my income support but they are trying to interview him for habitual residence test which i think it is wrong. can i get an answer to this here as i think he should have the same right as i have.
beloved is the belief that there are inherent differences in people's traits and capacities that are entirely due to their race, however defined, and that, as a consequence, justify the different treatment of those people, both socially and legally.

wiggsy
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Post by wiggsy » Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:55 am

rachellynn1972 wrote:I am sorry to ask this question here but i think i can get answer. do a family member of an eea holding a residence card need to pass the habitual residence test? in uk nearly all my life and have work for more than 15yrs before becoming permanentely incapacitated and my partner apply to be my carer and i am puting him into my income support but they are trying to interview him for habitual residence test which i think it is wrong. can i get an answer to this here as i think he should have the same right as i have.
how long as partner lived in the uk as the family member of an eea national?

if longer than 5 years then they have pr, which they do not have to register for (but it will make things ALOT easier).

- note: UK citizen is not an EEA national for purposes of law. - Directive 2004/38/EC *the user on here* may be able to help you more... - might be useful to post a question in the EEA section. - as its different rules

dipmm2000d
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Benefit

Post by dipmm2000d » Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:27 am

Hi John
I read your posts n appreciate your help . Can u pls express your opinion about my situation. I got ilr and applied spouse visa flm for my wife n am about apply for reg for my two children . As I was student when I was applying for ilr based on 10 years long residency n had no work right so I submitted my wife's income 6000 pa only together a sponsor declaration from my brother who is in abroad to support her application as a third party support. Now I started self employment, in the said circumstances can I claim child tax credit , working tax credit and child benefit? If I do will it effect my wife's application? As I can see in the imm rules , can the parties maintain and accommodate themselves which which is referring to both of us. Thanks In Advance for you time.

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