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Latest on EU citizens (archived from original thread)

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Moderators: Casa, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, meself2, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, Administrator

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secret.simon
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Latest on EU citizens (archived from original thread)

Post by secret.simon » Tue Aug 09, 2016 12:31 pm

Obie wrote:Well this forum has a vision and direction.

It purpose is not compromise fringe views, which are totally unsupported, or even contrary to fact.

The purpose of this forum is to repudiate these views in the strongest possible terms..
I read the terms and conditions and the other stickies in the Announcements section very carefully and did not observe either a vision or a directions statement. An individual vision of what these forums are for can not be attributed to all users as a whole.

If a forum were to truly foster discussion, it should have space to allow all forms of speech, even disagreements and adversarial statements, otherwise one can (a) never learn and (b) never develop.

The issue with Stormfront is not the views that they espouse, but that they allow no alternative views to be expressed. It is effectively an echo chamber of people having the same thoughts.

What we need on these forums is to "let a hundred flowers bloom" and have a diverse range of opinions, not the immigration equivalent of Stormfront, where only pro-immigration voices can be heard.

As an aside, can we use a better example? For a few moments, I got confused between Stormfront and Stormont and wondered what you had against Northern Irish politicians.
Obie wrote:The purpose of this forum is to repudiate these views in the strongest possible terms ...
So long as I remain a moderator, I will not sit down quiet whiles EU citizens are smeared. I will repel any view that seek to belittle the immense contribution that EU citizens make to the UK, in the strongest possible terms.
That is pretty much precisely what is concerning about some posts on these forums. They are unnecessarily strongly worded and can be interpreted as hectoring and even bullying. Opposing points of view are attacked ferociously, in a manner unseemly of a moderator.

As a moderator, you ought to guide the discussion, be the traffic policeman, not a driver. I suggest to you that if you wish to correct somebody's point of view, that you do so like another moderator, who states his points succintly, in terse language, but crucially with links to documentary evidence of his viewpoint. That is much harder to rebute than hectoring posts. And if the person persists in stating incorrect facts, other people reading the forums can compare the two sides of the arguments (presented by the person and moderator) and decide for themselves. It is not for the moderator to judge an argument of which he is one party, it is for him to present a positive case and leave.
Obie wrote:I have corrected Petaltop, and made her understand that her views are unsupported by facts.
You did not provide any proof of your side of the argument. If she is at fault for presenting arguments unsubstantiated by proof presented on these forums, I suggest that others are as guilty.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

Petaltop
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Re: Latest on EU citizens

Post by Petaltop » Tue Aug 09, 2016 12:39 pm

Obie wrote: I have corrected Petaltop, and made her understand that her views are unsupported by facts. I will hope that she will appreciate this and desist from the disdainful remarks she make about EU citizens in the UK, and attempts to vilify Germans.
You said what you thought, but what you thought was not correct. Do you want this site to give out incorrect information?

And as for your "vilify Germans" claim, I am German and have said this many times before on here.
Last edited by Petaltop on Tue Aug 09, 2016 12:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Obie
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Re: Latest on EU citizens

Post by Obie » Tue Aug 09, 2016 12:58 pm

Suffice to say, that Gisela Stuart was German.

Even Hitler as far as I remember was German .

Well I can provide many report from University College London , LsE , that confirms that EU citizens make more contribution than they take out.

I have already corrected yourself and Simon that European law is neither made by the Council of Europe , which is made up of the Leaders of the European union or Germany.

Many of EU law are not friendly to Germans, and Germany sends significant cases to the CJEU for ruling.
Smooth seas do not make skilful sailors

Petaltop
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Re: Latest on EU citizens

Post by Petaltop » Tue Aug 09, 2016 2:12 pm

Obie wrote:

Even Hitler as far as I remember was German .
Is that aimed at being an insult towards me?

Quite how you have remained a mod on this site, I will never know.

secret.simon
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Re: Latest on EU citizens

Post by secret.simon » Tue Aug 09, 2016 2:28 pm

Obie wrote:Suffice to say, that Gisela Stuart was German.

Even Hitler as far as I remember was German .
I think I just understood the inference.

Gisela Stuart campaigned against European integration, Hitler fought (quite literally) for it. The underlying suggestion is that Germans have a range of diverse opinions on European integration.

As an aside, not only are they both Germans, they are either from Bavaria or closely associated with it (depending on whether you consider Hitler German at all, that is). Now what does that say about Bavaria, I wonder.
Petaltop wrote:Is that aimed at being an insult towards me?
I did not realise you were German.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

Wanderer
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Re: Latest on EU citizens

Post by Wanderer » Tue Aug 09, 2016 4:02 pm

Petaltop wrote:
Obie wrote: I have corrected Petaltop, and made her understand that her views are unsupported by facts. I will hope that she will appreciate this and desist from the disdainful remarks she make about EU citizens in the UK, and attempts to vilify Germans.
You said what you thought, but what you thought was not correct. Do you want this site to give out incorrect information?

And as for your "vilify Germans" claim, I am German and have said this many times before on here.
Pwned!!!
An chéad stad eile Stáisiún Uí Chonghaile....

Wanderer
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Re: Latest on EU citizens

Post by Wanderer » Tue Aug 09, 2016 4:07 pm

Obie wrote: Suffice to say, that Gisela Stuart was German.

Even Hitler as far as I remember was German .
Austrian.

Though he gave up his Austrian Citizenship, and was stateless for while, before becoming German in order to become Mayor of Braunschweig or something and start his NASDAP career...

Maybe we should analyse his right to German citizenship at that time, making yourself stateless too - one for secret.simon as the expert around here!!
Last edited by Wanderer on Tue Aug 09, 2016 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
An chéad stad eile Stáisiún Uí Chonghaile....

noajthan
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Re: Latest on EU citizens

Post by noajthan » Tue Aug 09, 2016 4:08 pm

I'm reminded of the classic St Trinian's film in which, whenever anyone mentioned "St Trinian's", the education department officials put on soothing music and did a little therapeutic dance to counter their nervous breakdowns.

Let's all take 5 minutes to breathe and relax.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

Wanderer
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Re: Latest on EU citizens

Post by Wanderer » Tue Aug 09, 2016 4:14 pm

noajthan wrote:I'm reminded of the classic St Trinian's film in which, whenever anyone mentioned "St Trinian's", the education department officials put on soothing music and did a little therapeutic dance to counter their nervous breakdowns.

Let's all take 5 minutes to breathe and relax.
I prefer the line in 'Kingsman: The Secret Service' - pub scene - "Are we going to stand around here all day, or are we going to fight?"

Lol! My money's on me, I'm dead hard I am....
An chéad stad eile Stáisiún Uí Chonghaile....

Richard W
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Re: Latest on EU citizens

Post by Richard W » Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:06 pm

Petaltop wrote:And as for your "vilify Germans" claim, I am German and have said this many times before on here.
I keep wondering if there should be an question inviting people to record their sex, their nationalities, and possibly marital status, when joining. The first solves grammar problems, nationalities are often relevant to understanding their problem. I suppose there may be a problem with anonymity. Or can the Home Office find out who's posting anyway?

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Casa
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Re: Latest on EU citizens

Post by Casa » Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:36 pm

Unless the HO have the time & the inclination to hack an immigration forum website, they don't have access to member's details. :|
If members were required to provide details of race, religion, nationality, age, sex, marital status etc., we would be accused of invading personal privacy and 'profiling'....all to gain what exactly? :roll:
This thread is in danger of running of the rails...it's certainly off-topic.
(Casa, not CR001)
Please don't send me PMs asking for immigration advice on posts that are on the open forum. If I haven't responded there, it's because I don't have the answer. I'm a moderator, not a legal professional.

secret.simon
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Re: Latest on EU citizens

Post by secret.simon » Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:10 pm

Casa wrote:This thread is in danger of running of the rails...it's certainly off-topic.
Perhaps all the posts today in this thread can be moved to the "Comments about discussion board" forum, which should return this thread to its original purpose.

Alternatively, they can be deleted. At the very least, I would be OK with my own posts in that timescale being deleted.
Last edited by secret.simon on Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

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Casa
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Re: Latest on EU citizens

Post by Casa » Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:12 pm

To be honest secret.simon....it's been a long day and I've lost the will with this one. :|
(Casa, not CR001)
Please don't send me PMs asking for immigration advice on posts that are on the open forum. If I haven't responded there, it's because I don't have the answer. I'm a moderator, not a legal professional.

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Re: Latest on EU citizens (archived from original thread)

Post by noajthan » Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:10 pm

Largely off-topic posts moved here from original thread.
All that is gold does not glitter; Not all those who wander are lost. E&OE.

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