EEA family permit Refusal!! please help urgent

Hi everyone

I need urgent help!! I applied for an EEA family permit for my
husband his younger brothers as they are depending on us financially.This was denied on the 30th of
September 2014. It was refused on different grounds. This was the refusal:
you have applied along with your 3 brothers. In support of your application you have submitted a guardianship agreement dated 12 of May 2012 that states your parents have given custody of you and your siblings to your elder brother and your dutch sister in law I can place little evidential weight on this document as you have not satisfactory evidence of your UK Sponser s link to your family. I further note the large age gap between you and your Sponser. The birth certificates that you and your brothers have submitted are all issued recently on 04/06/2014 and this raise concerns for the following reasons. Well the birth certificates were obtained because it was needed to make their passports the old birth certificate Was destroyed by water damage. what can I proof here.

1. furthermore I note that your guardianship agreement whilst relating to both parents transferring custody has been signed by only one parent. given the closeness of the date of this document and the newly issued cerificates I consider these document have been optained purely to assist your application. well that the documents was signed by one parent is a lie it was signed by both and j can attach a copy of my mother in law her passport so that they can verify the autograph. also we did not obtain the documents to assist the application we have this guardian agreement for over 2 years we just wanted to be settled here first have good jobs before bringing them over. Please advise what we can do or show the entrée clearance officer.

2. I acknowledge that you have met your Sponser as you have submitted photographs of you together however these photographs appear to have been taken all around the same time. There are no photographs of you growing up from young age with your brother. well I submitted pictures with them when I lived in Nigeria but the pictures were not taken around the same time it was in 2010, 2011 and pictures of my wedding in 2012. my husband and I decided to just add some more pictures of them growing up. anyone else has an idea of what else we can provide?

3. In order to qualify for een EEA permit you must be financially dependent upon the EEA national and or the spouse of the EEA national to meet your essential needs in Nigeria. There is no evidence with your application to show that you have ever been a member of your Sponser s household. I submitted western union payslips as that was the only thing I could show dependancy and pictures of me living with them is that not enough?

4.I note that at question 126 you state that you currently reside with your parents and siblings given that you still reside with your parents I am satisfied that they still exercise parental rights and guidance over you. You have provided no details to establish what your essential needs are in Nigeria to allow me to ascertain if they can or cannot be met from your parents available income.furthermore there is no evidence of your parents financial circumstances in Nigeria.i am therefore not satisfied that you have established that are a dependant family member. because my husband and I are living in the UK and they are minors there is no one they can stay with besides the parents but we are the one sending money every month to support them. What else can we provide or do?

5.I acknowledge that you have submitted some money transfers receipts with your application however, it is commonplace for family member to send relatives money in order to provide for an improved standard of living. monetary transfers, for example are not indicative of being a depandend relative. I am satisfied that you mantain an independent life in Nigeria and that you are still being supported by your parents.i am therefore not satisfied that any claim to dependancy can reasonably be taken to be a statement of fact particularly in light of my earlier comments regarding the dates of your documents. what can I proof here?

Please help me only serious reactions or advice please.

You should consider appealing.

This ECO cannot change his or her mind easily.

Break this down for me.

How old are the brothers - how old are you?

When did you move to the EU? When did you last live with your brothers?

When did you get married to your dutch national wife?

When was the guardianship agreement put in place?

MPH80 wrote:Break this down for me.

How old are the brothers - how old are you?

When did you move to the EU? When did you last live with your brothers?

When did you get married to your dutch national wife?

When was the guardianship agreement put in place?

Hi,
the brothers are 4, 7,14,15 years old. I am the wife and i am 34 I am the sponser I am a Dutch National. my husband is 28 came and join me in the uk 28 october 2012. and before that he has always lived with his younger brothers. We got married in April 2012 in Nigeria. The agreement was put in place after we got married.

Obie wrote:You should consider appealing.

This ECO cannot change his or her mind easily.

so is it the same person who will make the decision again?

thickmadame33 wrote:

MPH80 wrote:Break this down for me.

How old are the brothers - how old are you?

When did you move to the EU? When did you last live with your brothers?

When did you get married to your dutch national wife?

When was the guardianship agreement put in place?

Hi,
the brothers are 4, 7,14,15 years old. I am the wife and i am 34 I am the sponser I am a Dutch National. my husband is 28 came and join me in the uk 28 october 2012. and before that he has always lived with his younger brothers. We got married in April 2012 in Nigeria. The agreement was put in place after we got married.

Mmm.

This is what I was worried about. UKBA guidance on adoption between family members is (was? see below) fairly strict. It's rather specifically designed to prevent 'gifting' of children for the purposes of gaining an immigration advantage.

The fact that guardianship was only turned over once you were married (and you were already living here) would smell very strongly to UKBA of attempting to gift the children to get them to the UK rather than there being a genuine guardianship relationship.

I used to have a saved link to the guidance from the old UKBA site - I've been unable to find it on the new site since - they appear to have archived it and I can't find where they've now included it - if at all.

I agree with Obie - the only way forward is to appeal. A reapplication is going to make little difference in the circumstances I think.

You say three brothers then you list four?

Anyway, is it a valid question to ask if you wholly or mainly maintained them? Think that's still the rules isn't?

Wanderer wrote:You say three brothers then you list four?

Anyway, is it a valid question to ask if you wholly or mainly maintained them? Think that's still the rules isn't?

the 3 brothers the ECO was referring to was mentioned in one of the refusal letter of the oldest applicant the 15 year old one. I am not upsad about the rules. I just want to know what can be done to proof our case.

MPH80 wrote:

thickmadame33 wrote:

MPH80 wrote:Break this down for me.

How old are the brothers - how old are you?

When did you move to the EU? When did you last live with your brothers?

When did you get married to your dutch national wife?

When was the guardianship agreement put in place?

Hi,
the brothers are 4, 7,14,15 years old. I am the wife and i am 34 I am the sponser I am a Dutch National. my husband is 28 came and join me in the uk 28 october 2012. and before that he has always lived with his younger brothers. We got married in April 2012 in Nigeria. The agreement was put in place after we got married.

Mmm.

This is what I was worried about. UKBA guidance on adoption between family members is (was? see below) fairly strict. It's rather specifically designed to prevent 'gifting' of children for the purposes of gaining an immigration advantage.

The fact that guardianship was only turned over once you were married (and you were already living here) would smell very strongly to UKBA of attempting to gift the children to get them to the UK rather than there being a genuine guardianship relationship.

I used to have a saved link to the guidance from the old UKBA site - I've been unable to find it on the new site since - they appear to have archived it and I can't find where they've now included it - if at all.

I agree with Obie - the only way forward is to appeal. A reapplication is going to make little difference in the circumstances I think.

but they are my husband his brothers so why will I try to get them in the uk based on false guardianship? I only decided to be their guardian because I know that my husband his parents are not able to take care of them financially and because they are my husband his siblings who I have lived with for more than a year. But thank you for your comment and I will surely look into the appeal as I do not have much time.

thickmadame33 wrote: but they are my husband his brothers so why will I try to get them in the uk based on false guardianship? I only decided to be their guardian because I know that my husband his parents are not able to take care of them financially and because they are my husband his siblings who I have lived with for more than a year. But thank you for your comment and I will surely look into the appeal as I do not have much time.

Don't misunderstand me - I am not accusing you of anything - I'm simply attempting to try to explain why UKBA are questioning the validity of every document you produced.

They are looking at the situation and thinking 'the guardianship transfer is just to get the kids to the UK'. Regardless of the truth behind it - that's how it looks to them - so that's why they are saying 'we don't believe you'. Their attitude comes from their guidance on this sort of thing that's so strict.

You'd be surprised at the number of people who will adopt nieces/nephews/brothers/sisters/cousins etc to bring those relatives to the UK to seek a 'better life' - hence why they put the restrictions in place.

MPH80 wrote:

thickmadame33 wrote: but they are my husband his brothers so why will I try to get them in the uk based on false guardianship? I only decided to be their guardian because I know that my husband his parents are not able to take care of them financially and because they are my husband his siblings who I have lived with for more than a year. But thank you for your comment and I will surely look into the appeal as I do not have much time.

Don't misunderstand me - I am not accusing you of anything - I'm simply attempting to try to explain why UKBA are questioning the validity of every document you produced.

They are looking at the situation and thinking 'the guardianship transfer is just to get the kids to the UK'. Regardless of the truth behind it - that's how it looks to them - so that's why they are saying 'we don't believe you'. Their attitude comes from their guidance on this sort of thing that's so strict.

You'd be surprised at the number of people who will adopt nieces/nephews/brothers/sisters/cousins etc to bring those relatives to the UK to seek a 'better life' - hence why they put the restrictions in place.

I understand.. but what are my changes at an appeal? will I be able to bring evidence of some of the things that were mentioned in the refusal letter? I have never been in a situation like this before so I don't have a clue how this all works

I honestly do not know what your chances are.

You are welcome to present new evidence at appeal yes.

However, given the complexity of the situation - you would be well advised to get a competent immigration advisor to represent you.

It is a judge that will remake the decision, he or she is meant to be impartial.

You will be entitled to provide further evidence on appeal.

Obie wrote:It is a judge that will remake the decision, he or she is meant to be impartial.

You will be entitled to provide further evidence on appeal.

thank you so much for your advise.

MPH80 wrote:I honestly do not know what your chances are.

You are welcome to present new evidence at appeal yes.

However, given the complexity of the situation - you would be well advised to get a competent immigration advisor to represent you.

thank you so much for all your answers. I will surely follow it up.

I'm sorry to say this, but it will be interesting to see if any judge will allow this in any way,the children you're talking about have got their parents and still living with the parents, there's obviously no compelling reason or reasons why they should leave their parents to a country they've never lived before, of course it will be a different case if they haven't got parents.
Except you can proof beyond reasonable doubt,no judge will allow 3 kids or 4 to leave their parents.

Rayking wrote:I'm sorry to say this, but it will be interesting to see if any judge will allow this in any way,the children you're talking about have got their parents and still living with the parents, there's obviously no compelling reason or reasons why they should leave their parents to a country they've never lived before, of course it will be a different case if they haven't got parents.
Except you can proof beyond reasonable doubt,no judge will allow 3 kids or 4 to leave their parents.

Thank you for taking the time to write to my post. you are really making me feel bad but I know that you do not mean it in a bad way. I understand your point but is not like I am just taking them from their parents I am just assisting the parents because they cannot take care of them financially. I am married to their brother is that not my in law? and besides why will a judge not agree for a brother to have custody of his younger brother simply because of the well being of those children. I just feel like sometimes the good you want to do becomes your punishment. but again thanks for your opinion.

Obie wrote:It is a judge that will remake the decision, he or she is meant to be impartial.

You will be entitled to provide further evidence on appeal.

Hi Obi,

the reason I was asking this. The refusal happened on the 30th of September and on the 9th of October I received a call from the BHC in Lagos asking me to come in person to support my application with my original passport and my new tenancy agreement as the one I submitted with my application was about to expire this month. and proof of why I have not yet applied for my husband his residence card. why will I still be called 9 days after the decision was already made. The only thing I have is proof that I was called by them. I have emailed them but the answer I got back is like no one wants to take responsibility of the call and also the documents requested when I was called none of this is mentioned in the refusal letter of course that was already denied on the 30th but is this something I can mention when I go for the appeal?