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137 Pages EEA application form, what for exactly

Use this section for queries concerning applications on any of the EEA series of forms, and also for applications for EEA Family Permits.

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Directive/2004/38/EC
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Re: 129 Pages EEA application for, what for

Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Tue Feb 10, 2015 2:17 am

The new form is pretty shocking. I am tempted to do an alternative form specialized solely on the married family members of EEA citizens, and maybe children. Should be able to get it down to a page or two.

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Re: 129 Pages EEA application for, what for

Post by Hubba » Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:12 pm

My opinion is that is all for setting up applicants for failure. By requesting this amount of info on the application, they are:

a) Building themselves a nice body of evidence for rejecting cases;
b) Making it easier to spot application inconsistencies;

Instead of having correspondence back and forth with the applicant requesting info and calling up for interviews, they want all data (or the lack of) exposed on the initial application.

The new form can potentially speed up case processing, given that they either will have all the info they need to approve an application or whatever info they need to reject it outright.

Of course, they made this on detriment of the applicant's convenience, but although it's not nice of them to do such thing, is not lawless either.

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Re: 129 Pages EEA application for, what for

Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:35 pm

Hubba wrote:My opinion is that is all for setting up applicants for failure. By requesting this amount of info on the application, they are:

a) Building themselves a nice body of evidence for rejecting cases;
b) Making it easier to spot application inconsistencies;

Instead of having correspondence back and forth with the applicant requesting info and calling up for interviews, they want all data (or the lack of) exposed on the initial application.

The new form can potentially speed up case processing, given that they either will have all the info they need to approve an application or whatever info they need to reject it outright.

Of course, they made this on detriment of the applicant's convenience, but although it's not nice of them to do such thing, is not lawless either.
You are making incorrect statements. They can not lawfully require all this information.

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Re: 129 Pages EEA application for, what for

Post by Obie » Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:03 pm

Hubba wrote:My opinion is that is all for setting up applicants for failure. By requesting this amount of info on the application, they are:

a) Building themselves a nice body of evidence for rejecting cases;
b) Making it easier to spot application inconsistencies;

Instead of having correspondence back and forth with the applicant requesting info and calling up for interviews, they want all data (or the lack of) exposed on the initial application.

The new form can potentially speed up case processing, given that they either will have all the info they need to approve an application or whatever info they need to reject it outright.

Of course, they made this on detriment of the applicant's convenience, but although it's not nice of them to do such thing, is not lawless either.

I disagree Hubba.

It is wholly lawless.

The information they are requesting is wholly inconsistent with EU law.

For a Residence Card to be issued a spouse need to provide the following.

1. Evidence of their relationship to the EU Citizen.

2. Evidence that there is an Eu citizen

3. Evidence that the EU Citizen is residing in the

4. Evidence that the requirement in Article 7 is met by the EU citizen.

You can certainly establish this fact by a 2 page application form.

No need to find out when they met the EU Citizen, when they started living together, their income, their outgoings, whether they live together, when they last lived together, whether the EU citizen have children with the person, what benefits they claim.

It is utterly crazy, and wholly inconsistent with EU law.

I have one applicant went for interview today, was asked how he entered the UK, in contravention of EU law.
After thinking long and hard, I have come to the conclusion that brexit is a cancer. The only good brexit is a dead brexit.

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Re: 129 Pages EEA application for, what for

Post by Hubba » Tue Feb 10, 2015 2:53 pm

Obie wrote:
Hubba wrote:My opinion is that is all for setting up applicants for failure. By requesting this amount of info on the application, they are:

a) Building themselves a nice body of evidence for rejecting cases;
b) Making it easier to spot application inconsistencies;

Instead of having correspondence back and forth with the applicant requesting info and calling up for interviews, they want all data (or the lack of) exposed on the initial application.

The new form can potentially speed up case processing, given that they either will have all the info they need to approve an application or whatever info they need to reject it outright.

Of course, they made this on detriment of the applicant's convenience, but although it's not nice of them to do such thing, is not lawless either.

I disagree Hubba.

It is wholly lawless.

The information they are requesting is wholly inconsistent with EU law.

For a Residence Card to be issued a spouse need to provide the following.

1. Evidence of their relationship to the EU Citizen.

2. Evidence that there is an Eu citizen

3. Evidence that the EU Citizen is residing in the

4. Evidence that the requirement in Article 7 is met by the EU citizen.

You can certainly establish this fact by a 2 page application form.

No need to find out when they met the EU Citizen, when they started living together, their income, their outgoings, whether they live together, when they last lived together, whether the EU citizen have children with the person, what benefits they claim.

It is utterly crazy, and wholly inconsistent with EU law.

I have one applicant went for interview today, was asked how he entered the UK, in contravention of EU law.

I stand corrected, then, although one could claim that all this information (when they met the EU Citizen, when they started living together, their income, their outgoings, whether they live together, when they last lived together, whether the EU citizen have children with the person) can be used to verify that such a marriage relationship is not just for immigration purposes. If such kind of verification is illegal, the UK has been doing it wrong for a very long time then, given that proof of relationship is requested on several processes. Hell, they conduct interviews in order to assess and validate such data. According to them, all on the spirit of Article 45 of Directive 2004/38.

Benefits wise, they are legally entitled (or so I believe) to verify that the applicant has not become a burden to the state before granting residence cards/certificates. I believe articles 10 and 16 of Directive 2004/38 grant them this right. I do agree that they don't specify on the form that no applicant is obliged to fill out such data and this may be dodgy, but we don't know of any application being rejected due to this section not being filled up.

Then again, guys, this was only my opinion. I don't work with this, just like to keep myself informed and see how things go.

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Re: 129 Pages EEA application for, what for

Post by UKBA HUNTER » Tue Feb 10, 2015 4:22 pm

All members assumptions about new form are correct up to certain degree but point to be noted that asking such too much information may reduce interviews but which page is relevant and how to properly fill it may lead to fill the pockets of solicitors. And applicants never believe on bad quality solicitors.
And one more point about divorce petition is that it may be harmful for ROR applicants where those applicants in divorce are respondent because sometimes due to the divorce reason. I will advice that if possible that future ror applicants try to become respondent in divorce if possible and before starting divorce try to mutually agreed with EU partner about the reason of divorces.
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Re: 129 Pages EEA application for, what for

Post by Artur111 » Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:25 pm

There's a new form for Permanent Residence too.
Just have gone through it and noticed one thing - if you retained your right of residence you don't need to send the proof of residence for your ex-wife or ex-husband.
"you do not have to submit evidence of your sponsor’s status again but we reserve the right to ask you for more information if
necessary." - page 103 - Section E.

And then the next page again: "If you already have a registration certificate or residence card on the basis of a retained right of residence, you do not need to submit evidence of residence before the relevant date. However, you must show you have lived in the UK since you were last issued with a registration certificate or residence card and have completed 5 years’ continuous legal residence in the UK (see section 5).".

But I'm not sure about proof of exercising treaty rights.

Do you think it only relates to residence proof but nor exercising treaty rights of EEA-national?

I'm a bit puzzled now as I need to apply for PR end of this month.
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Re: 129 Pages EEA application for, what for

Post by Zhonor » Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:24 pm

They have also asked about previous marriage and requires divorce papers for a relationship that ended ages ago and has nothing to do with this EEA4 application. Why do they need to know all the old information for? I assumed as long as you and EU national fulfilled the 5 year treaty rights in the UK, you should automatically get the PR?

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Re: 129 Pages EEA application for, what for

Post by Imshzd » Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:58 pm

dont worry members HO never refuse your application if you do not fill the form or if you fill this form wrongly.best thing is to write a covering letter and explain your story and dont care about this forms.

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Re: 129 Pages EEA application for, what for

Post by Czdude » Mon Feb 16, 2015 10:12 am

For the divorce document to be submitted, if one was divorced outside of the UK but within the EEA and provides an apostilled copy of the divorce decree (which is nothing more than a letter effectively saying "Your petition for divorce is granted as of date X" is that sufficient or does that have to be validated in the UK first?

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Re: 129 Pages EEA application for, what for

Post by Obie » Mon Feb 16, 2015 1:34 pm

The will need to know when the application for divorce was lodged, and whether or not you were both in the UK.
After thinking long and hard, I have come to the conclusion that brexit is a cancer. The only good brexit is a dead brexit.

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Re: 129 Pages EEA application for, what for

Post by Czdude » Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:32 pm

That info should be there, don't exactly consult that document much.

The Czech form is 5 pages, though pages 4-5 are information notes and places for signatures and page 3 is if you have children.
http://www.mvcr.cz/mvcren/article/appli ... forms.aspx

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Re: 129 Pages EEA application for, what for

Post by vinny » Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:34 pm

This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
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Re: 129 Pages EEA application form, what for exactly

Post by Obie » Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:39 pm

Vinny, i did thought you might reach it before me.

For a long time now the UK has been deliberately trampling on EU rules and regulations.

Many of CJEU Judgement have simply not been implemented.

Glad that Colin's view concur with mine.
After thinking long and hard, I have come to the conclusion that brexit is a cancer. The only good brexit is a dead brexit.

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Re: 129 Pages EEA application form, what for exactly

Post by Czdude » Thu Feb 19, 2015 2:57 am

Is it possible to escalate this form to EU Solvit already? Not terribly happy about the prospects of filling out this form.

Just a further thought - if one has previously received a family residence card in another EU country, shouldn't that be proof enough to be issued a new one in another EU country upon moving? While it is clearly not exactly the same since you (via your spouse) have to prove your reason for residence in EU country X, a like analogy would be that of driving licenses. If an EU license holder moves countries in the EU, they are entitled to exchange their license without recourse. Shouldn't a similar process of reciprocity apply?

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Re: 129 Pages EEA application form, what for exactly

Post by vinny » Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:19 am

The UKVI does not easily recognize the residence documents issued by other EAA countries, claiming that these are subject to abuse.

Ironically, the UKVI is an abuser of the Directive themselves.
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Re: 129 Pages EEA application form, what for exactly

Post by tebee » Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:45 am

vinny wrote:The UKVI does not easily recognize the residence documents issued by other EAA countries, claiming that these are subject to abuse.

......

.

But does not the McCarthy Judgement mean they now have to accept them? Or is that just limited to allowing short stays?

But if they try to interpret it that narrowly, this will lead to the logical inconsistency that they accept it for certain things, but not for others - and I suspect a further court case later .
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Re: 129 Pages EEA application form, what for exactly

Post by Czdude » Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:45 am

I have to agree - the McCarthy case opens up a whole Pandora's Box of things UKBA doesn't want to deal with (or doesn't recognize it will have to deal with), but is going to have to. To claim that UK vetting of a residence case trumps a fellow EU member's previous vetting strikes me as counter to the concept of a union itself. But then, after the upcoming May election, maybe the UK feels it can do what it pleases.

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Re: 129 Pages EEA application form, what for exactly

Post by vinny » Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:29 am

abam wrote:Hello good people, I really need your help. My two step children arrived in UK last week on EEA FP. Now we want to apply for their RC as soon as possible. My question is do we have to print all the 129 pages and fill? Also do I have to provide all the supporting documents I provided during the Family Permit Application including my Passport? And do I have to include anything from my husband(Their Father) who is already on RC?
Any help will be much appreciated.
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Re: 129 Pages EEA application form, what for exactly

Post by abam » Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:51 pm

Hello good people, I really need your help. My two step children arrived in UK last week on EEA FP. Now we want to apply for their RC as soon as possible. My question is do we have to print all the 129 pages and fill? Also do I have to provide all the supporting documents I provided during the Family Permit Application including my Passport? And do I have to include anything from my husband(Their Father) who is already on RC?
Any help will be much appreciated.

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