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But while the deal protects the rights of expat Brits in their host EU member state “it would appear there won’t be new freedom of movement,” according to Liz Barratt, an immigration lawyer at Bindmans in London.
“A U.K. citizen living in France isn’t going to have the right to move to Italy under European law once the U.K. leaves.” It’s possible that some other agreement could be reached that would allow this, she says, but the current agreement doesn’t.
Wasn't this always the case? for extended family members, it was the member state exercising 'discretion' under its national law.secret.simon wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:50 amExtended Family Members (other than durable partners) are excluded from the scope of the Withdrawal agreement and explicitly put under national jurisdiction(Paragraph 14).
The joint tehnical note seems to suggest the Surinder Singh and Lounes case will be covered by the withdrawal agreement but there remains a question mark over Zambrano carers.secret.simon wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:50 amThe implications of the Withdrawal agreement on the future of the SS Route and Zambrano carers are unclear.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/b ... _table.pdfEU Citizens and UK nationals resident in accordance with Article 21 TFEU.
Secret Simon's post is not clear, what he is not telling you is that paragraph 14 is intended for those arriving after the cut off date. The withdraw Agreement covers all categories of family members, legally residing in member. Paragraph (10)eeaprneu2 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:25 amWasn't this always the case? for extended family members, it was the member state exercising 'discretion' under its national law.secret.simon wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:50 amExtended Family Members (other than durable partners) are excluded from the scope of the Withdrawal agreement and explicitly put under national jurisdiction(Paragraph 14).
I second that. I have an electronic PR application form processing and I was able to check the status but no longer can. This was the link where you could check the status but they have removed it.
I can't see a reference to SS route in the withdrawal agreement, how do you know if SS route is protected?mkhan2525 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:01 pmThe joint tehnical note seems to suggest the Surinder Singh and Lounes case will be covered by the withdrawal agreement but there remains a question mark over Zambrano carers.secret.simon wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:50 amThe implications of the Withdrawal agreement on the future of the SS Route and Zambrano carers are unclear.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/b ... _table.pdfEU Citizens and UK nationals resident in accordance with Article 21 TFEU.
My Chinese wife will have completed her 5 years in UK in October 2018, ie, 5 years from our (her) entry into Uk via SS.JulietSoul wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:07 amHow will this affect partners of British citizens in the Surinder Singh route? I am due to apply for permanent residence in August 2018, will I still be able to do so? This is very confusing...
I agree we will be fine, just wondering when it will be made clear what the procedure will be, and whether these changes affect us, and how.Graham Weifang wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:22 pmMy Chinese wife will have completed her 5 years in UK in October 2018, ie, 5 years from our (her) entry into Uk via SS.JulietSoul wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:07 amHow will this affect partners of British citizens in the Surinder Singh route? I am due to apply for permanent residence in August 2018, will I still be able to do so? This is very confusing...
I think it will all be fine, with being so far down the road.
GW
When an EU national returns to the member state of which he or she is a national they are seeking to rely on Article 21 of the treaty to continue a family life which was created or strengthend in the host Member State.jinkazama_11 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:17 amI can't see a reference to SS route in the withdrawal agreement, how do you know if SS route is protected?mkhan2525 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:01 pmThe joint tehnical note seems to suggest the Surinder Singh and Lounes case will be covered by the withdrawal agreement but there remains a question mark over Zambrano carers.secret.simon wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:50 amThe implications of the Withdrawal agreement on the future of the SS Route and Zambrano carers are unclear.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/b ... _table.pdfEU Citizens and UK nationals resident in accordance with Article 21 TFEU.
In the second half of 2018, the Home Office will start issuing setlled status documents under UK law and may discontinue EU law documents. How this effects SS cases is unknown at this moment in time. However the UK will have abide by EU law until the end of the transistion period in 2021.JulietSoul wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:26 pmI agree we will be fine, just wondering when it will be made clear what the procedure will be, and whether these changes affect us, and how.Graham Weifang wrote: ↑Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:22 pmMy Chinese wife will have completed her 5 years in UK in October 2018, ie, 5 years from our (her) entry into Uk via SS.JulietSoul wrote: ↑Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:07 amHow will this affect partners of British citizens in the Surinder Singh route? I am due to apply for permanent residence in August 2018, will I still be able to do so? This is very confusing...
I think it will all be fine, with being so far down the road.
GW
I was under the same assumption.Obie wrote: ↑Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:31 amMy take on this is that the withdrawal treaty on Article appear to deal with British Citizens in another member state. If the intention was to cover both, this would have been expressly stated.
The CJEU may have to rule on the clarity of these issues if they are not clarified before Brexit.
Whilst the agreement reached only covers EU nationals in the UK and UK nationals in the EU the wording of the joint technical note suggests SS "may" be covered. As I was seeking to convey, this does not necessarily mean their family members will be entitled to apply for Settled Status they may be protected in a sense that they will be able to apply under the Immigration rules for example the long residence route.
The Lounes judgement of ECJ is superior to the UK law and whatever guidance the case worker has. You should mention the Lounes case in the notes/cover letter of your application politely but firmly.Navaro2 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:01 amI am dual citizen and my wife is going to apply for PR now. After Lounes judgement there is still no change to the Non EEA national family members of dual EEA and British citizens guide (version 5.0) from 21 April 2017 I found on gov.
As someone posted above " The caseworker will follow the present guide and may not take into consideration the final judgement of Lounes from November.
I am wondering how to support the application we are going to submit to point that final judgement as the key.
However if they are going to update that guideline to be clear at all that is a question.
Thanks to everyone for useful advices.
Dear Mr XXXXXX,
Thank you for your e-mail of 19 December 2017 concerning the rights of EU citizens in the context of Brexit.
Safeguarding the status and rights derived from EU law at the date of withdrawal of EU citizens and UK nationals is an essential objective of the ongoing negotiations with the United Kingdom.
On 15 December 2017, the European Council decided on the basis of the Joint Report that sufficient progress has been achieved in each of the three priority areas of citizens' rights, the dialogue on Ireland / Northern Ireland and the financial settlement.
You can find the Joint Report from the negotiators of the European Union and the United Kingdom Government on progress during phase 1 of negotiations under Article 50 TEU on the United Kingdom's orderly withdrawal from the European Union at http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-17-5173_en.htm.
You can find more details about the Joint Report and its impact of citizens' rights in our dedicated Questions and Answers document (available at https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/b ... ghts_1.pdf) and our website at https://ec.europa.eu/commission/brexit-negotiations_en.
The basic delineation of personal scope of the citizens’ rights Part of the Withdrawal Agreement is found in paragraph 10 of the Joint Report – EU citizens who in accordance with Union law legally reside in the UK, and UK nationals who in accordance with Union law legally reside in an EU27 Member State by the specified date, as well as their family members as defined by Directive 2004/38/EC (the Free Movement Directive, available at http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 616:EN:PDF) who are legally resident in the host State by the specified date, will fall within the scope of the Withdrawal Agreement.
Obtaining status under the Withdrawal Agreement will be made in accordance with the objective criteria established in the Withdrawal Agreement that will essentially mirror criteria Articles 6, 7, 12, 13 and 16 to 18 of the Free Movement Directive or primary law (Articles 21, 45 or 49 TFEU) attach to obtaining (and retaining) the right of residence under.
The Joint Report covers only EU citizens and their family members, who lawfully resided in the UK at the time of withdrawal, and UK nationals and their family members, who did so in an EU27 Member State.
Given the scope of our negotiating mandate, as outlined by the Council, the December deal covers neither UK nationals residing in the UK at the time of withdrawal pursuant to case law of the Court of Justice on returning nationals (case C-370/90 Surinder Singh) nor persons currently protected by Article 20 TFEU, such as those concerned by the ruling of the Court of Justice in case C-34/09 Ruiz Zambrano. In any event, we expect that UK citizens and their family members residing in the UK in accordance with these rules will be able to stay in the UK under the domestic laws that are currently underlying their right of residence. These domestic laws are not affected by the UK's withdrawal.
Yours sincerely,
The Task Force for the Preparation and Conduct of the Negotiations
with the United Kingdom under Article 50 TEU (IA)
cid:image001.gif@01CDAC48.DEFA49A0
European Commission
Rue de la Loi 200
B-1049 Brussels/Belgium
