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BREXIT WITHDRAWAL AGREEMENT.

Use this section for queries concerning applications on any of the EEA series of forms, and also for applications for EEA Family Permits.

Moderators: Casa, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, Zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe

Obie
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BREXIT WITHDRAWAL AGREEMENT.

Post by Obie » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:40 pm

Here is the Brexit Withdrawal agreement.



In some aspect, it seems more better than Directive 2004/38EC.
After thinking long and hard, I have come to the conclusion that brexit is a cancer. The only good brexit is a dead brexit.

secret.simon
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Re: BREXIT WITHDRAWAL AGREEMENT.

Post by secret.simon » Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:50 am

The points worth highlighting in the Citizens' Rights part of the Brexit Agreement.

Extended Family Members (other than durable partners) are excluded from the scope of the Withdrawal agreement and explicitly put under national jurisdiction(Paragraph 14).

Documentation for rights under the Withdrawal Agreement and applications for such documentation can be made mandatory and won't be automatic, as it is now (Paragraph 16)

PR preserved if absent from the UK for a period of less than five years, as opposed to two years under the current Directive 2004/38/EC (Paragraph 25)

Citizens rights will be incorporated into UK law by primary legislation (Act of Parliament), which can only be repealed explicitly (normal Acts of Parliament can be repealed implicitly). (Paragraph 36) - It is worth understanding that in terms of UK constitutional law, no Parliament can bind its successor and any Act of Parliament (or its equivalent) can be repealed by Parliament. Most parts of the Magna Carta have been repealed and replaced, in spite of its iconic status.

UK courts are to have "due regard" of CJEU decisions post-Brexit. They can also ask the CJEU questions on EU law (as they can now), but only for cases commenced within 8 years of Brexit (Paragraph 38)

The implications of the Withdrawal agreement on the future of the Surinder Singh route Route and Zambrano carers are unclear.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

secret.simon
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Re: BREXIT WITHDRAWAL AGREEMENT.

Post by secret.simon » Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:39 am

Brexit Breakthrough Risks Leaving Brits in Europe ‘Landlocked’
But while the deal protects the rights of expat Brits in their host EU member state “it would appear there won’t be new freedom of movement,” according to Liz Barratt, an immigration lawyer at Bindmans in London.

“A U.K. citizen living in France isn’t going to have the right to move to Italy under European law once the U.K. leaves.” It’s possible that some other agreement could be reached that would allow this, she says, but the current agreement doesn’t.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

eeaprneu2
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Re: BREXIT WITHDRAWAL AGREEMENT.

Post by eeaprneu2 » Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:25 am

secret.simon wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:50 am
Extended Family Members (other than durable partners) are excluded from the scope of the Withdrawal agreement and explicitly put under national jurisdiction(Paragraph 14).
Wasn't this always the case? for extended family members, it was the member state exercising 'discretion' under its national law.

mkhan2525
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Re: BREXIT WITHDRAWAL AGREEMENT.

Post by mkhan2525 » Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:01 pm

secret.simon wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:50 am
The implications of the Withdrawal agreement on the future of the Surinder Singh route Route and Zambrano carers are unclear.
The joint tehnical note seems to suggest the Surinder Singh and Lounes case will be covered by the withdrawal agreement but there remains a question mark over Zambrano carers.
EU Citizens and UK nationals resident in accordance with Article 21 TFEU.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/b ... _table.pdf

Pzeeman
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Re: BREXIT WITHDRAWAL AGREEMENT.

Post by Pzeeman » Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:15 pm

Does anyone know what's happening with the EEA2 residence card applications that are in process?

DFDS.
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Re: BREXIT WITHDRAWAL AGREEMENT.

Post by DFDS. » Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:29 pm

eeaprneu2 wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:25 am
secret.simon wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:50 am
Extended Family Members (other than durable partners) are excluded from the scope of the Withdrawal agreement and explicitly put under national jurisdiction(Paragraph 14).
Wasn't this always the case? for extended family members, it was the member state exercising 'discretion' under its national law.
Secret Simon's post is not clear, what he is not telling you is that paragraph 14 is intended for those arriving after the cut off date. The withdraw Agreement covers all categories of family members, legally residing in member. Paragraph (10)
Relax! and this too shall pass, secrets are like seasons, they change.

GMB
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Re: BREXIT WITHDRAWAL AGREEMENT.

Post by GMB » Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:03 pm

Freemovement has done an initial analysis of the EU citizens' rights aspects of the Phase 1 agreement. It should surprise no one that several situations/scenarios have not been considered, and some parts of the 'generous' offer are less so. Well worth reading.
https://www.freemovement.org.uk/brexit- ... ns-rights/

verty
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Re: BREXIT WITHDRAWAL AGREEMENT.

Post by verty » Thu Dec 14, 2017 2:06 pm

Pzeeman wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:15 pm
Does anyone know what's happening with the EEA2 residence card applications that are in process?
I second that. I have an electronic PR application form processing and I was able to check the status but no longer can. This was the link where you could check the status but they have removed it.

Will they still grant PR to people who apply for it?

https://contact-ukvi.homeoffice.gov.uk/ ... visastatus

JulietSoul
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Re: BREXIT WITHDRAWAL AGREEMENT.

Post by JulietSoul » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:07 am

How will this affect partners of British citizens in the Surinder Singh route? I am due to apply for permanent residence in August 2018, will I still be able to do so? This is very confusing...

jinkazama_11
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Re: BREXIT WITHDRAWAL AGREEMENT.

Post by jinkazama_11 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:27 pm

Is Surinder Singh route protected in the withdrawal agreement? I can't see a direct citation anywhere.

jinkazama_11
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Re: BREXIT WITHDRAWAL AGREEMENT.

Post by jinkazama_11 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:17 am

mkhan2525 wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:01 pm
secret.simon wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:50 am
The implications of the Withdrawal agreement on the future of the Surinder Singh route Route and Zambrano carers are unclear.
The joint tehnical note seems to suggest the Surinder Singh and Lounes case will be covered by the withdrawal agreement but there remains a question mark over Zambrano carers.
EU Citizens and UK nationals resident in accordance with Article 21 TFEU.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/b ... _table.pdf
I can't see a reference to Surinder Singh route route in the withdrawal agreement, how do you know if Surinder Singh route route is protected?

Graham Weifang
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Re: BREXIT WITHDRAWAL AGREEMENT.

Post by Graham Weifang » Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:22 pm

JulietSoul wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:07 am
How will this affect partners of British citizens in the Surinder Singh route? I am due to apply for permanent residence in August 2018, will I still be able to do so? This is very confusing...
My Chinese wife will have completed her 5 years in UK in October 2018, ie, 5 years from our (her) entry into Uk via Surinder Singh route.

I think it will all be fine, with being so far down the road.

GW

JulietSoul
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Re: BREXIT WITHDRAWAL AGREEMENT.

Post by JulietSoul » Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:26 pm

Graham Weifang wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:22 pm
JulietSoul wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:07 am
How will this affect partners of British citizens in the Surinder Singh route? I am due to apply for permanent residence in August 2018, will I still be able to do so? This is very confusing...
My Chinese wife will have completed her 5 years in UK in October 2018, ie, 5 years from our (her) entry into Uk via Surinder Singh route.

I think it will all be fine, with being so far down the road.

GW
I agree we will be fine, just wondering when it will be made clear what the procedure will be, and whether these changes affect us, and how.

Navaro2
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Re: BREXIT WITHDRAWAL AGREEMENT.

Post by Navaro2 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:16 pm

In one of the posts above someone said about brexit withdrawal agreement covering Lounes case.
which section of these says that? Or is it about one telling that CJEU as arbiter???

Regards

Wal

mkhan2525
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Re: BREXIT WITHDRAWAL AGREEMENT.

Post by mkhan2525 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:03 pm

jinkazama_11 wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:17 am
mkhan2525 wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:01 pm
secret.simon wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:50 am
The implications of the Withdrawal agreement on the future of the Surinder Singh route Route and Zambrano carers are unclear.
The joint tehnical note seems to suggest the Surinder Singh and Lounes case will be covered by the withdrawal agreement but there remains a question mark over Zambrano carers.
EU Citizens and UK nationals resident in accordance with Article 21 TFEU.
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/b ... _table.pdf
I can't see a reference to Surinder Singh route route in the withdrawal agreement, how do you know if Surinder Singh route route is protected?
When an EU national returns to the member state of which he or she is a national they are seeking to rely on Article 21 of the treaty to continue a family life which was created or strengthend in the host Member State.

The detailed joint technical note suggests an agreement has been reached to cover UK nationals who are resident according to Article 21 TFEU. Whether the non-EU national family members are able to apply for settled status is an open question.

I don't envisage a scenario where such family members who were lawfully resident will be deported. In the worst case scenario the residence may be counted towards the 10 year route to settlement after which they can apply for ILR at the cost of £2K-3K.

mkhan2525
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Re: BREXIT WITHDRAWAL AGREEMENT.

Post by mkhan2525 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:13 pm

JulietSoul wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:26 pm
Graham Weifang wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:22 pm
JulietSoul wrote:
Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:07 am
How will this affect partners of British citizens in the Surinder Singh route? I am due to apply for permanent residence in August 2018, will I still be able to do so? This is very confusing...
My Chinese wife will have completed her 5 years in UK in October 2018, ie, 5 years from our (her) entry into Uk via Surinder Singh route.

I think it will all be fine, with being so far down the road.

GW
I agree we will be fine, just wondering when it will be made clear what the procedure will be, and whether these changes affect us, and how.
In the second half of 2018, the Home Office will start issuing setlled status documents under UK law and may discontinue EU law documents. How this effects Surinder Singh route cases is unknown at this moment in time. However the UK will have abide by EU law until the end of the transistion period in 2021.

Obie
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Re: BREXIT WITHDRAWAL AGREEMENT.

Post by Obie » Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:31 am

My take on this is that the withdrawal treaty on Article appear to deal with British Citizens in another member state. If the intention was to cover both, this would have been expressly stated.

The CJEU may have to rule on the clarity of these issues if they are not clarified before Brexit.
After thinking long and hard, I have come to the conclusion that brexit is a cancer. The only good brexit is a dead brexit.

jinkazama_11
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Re: BREXIT WITHDRAWAL AGREEMENT.

Post by jinkazama_11 » Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:08 pm

Obie wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:31 am
My take on this is that the withdrawal treaty on Article appear to deal with British Citizens in another member state. If the intention was to cover both, this would have been expressly stated.

The CJEU may have to rule on the clarity of these issues if they are not clarified before Brexit.
I was under the same assumption.

mkhan2525
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Re: BREXIT WITHDRAWAL AGREEMENT.

Post by mkhan2525 » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:17 pm

Obie wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:31 am
My take on this is that the withdrawal treaty on Article appear to deal with British Citizens in another member state. If the intention was to cover both, this would have been expressly stated.
Whilst the agreement reached only covers EU nationals in the UK and UK nationals in the EU the wording of the joint technical note suggests Surinder Singh route "may" be covered. As I was seeking to convey, this does not necessarily mean their family members will be entitled to apply for Settled Status they may be protected in a sense that they will be able to apply under the Immigration rules for example the long residence route.

The position may change before Brexit as the government has stated that nothing is agreed until everything is agreed. We will have to wait for the final withdrawal agreement that parliament is promised a vote on.

I would advise people to educate their MP on this area of EU law.

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