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Changes in EEA-FP application rules: economic solvency

Use this section for queries concerning applications on any of the EEA series of forms, and also for applications for EEA Family Permits.

Moderators: Casa, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, Zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, push

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CharlotteCorday
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Location: UK

Changes in EEA-FP application rules: economic solvency

Post by CharlotteCorday » Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:10 pm

Hello!

First, the background of my situation: I am a Costa Rican (non-visa national) who's been studying and living in Spain during 4 years. 2 years ago, I met my husband in Hungary. He's been living in the UK for almost 6 years. Since we met, we kept in touch via chat, skype and visiting each other every 2 - 3 months. We decided to go steady at the beginning of 2011, and finally got married 2 weeks ago (in Hungary). We decided that the best was for me to come and join him in the UK, because he doesn't speak spanish.

I already have an appointment to apply for the EEA-FP in Spain, but after reading the recent changes in the inmigration law at the UKBA site, I'm feeling a little bit confused and nervous. My main question is:

- How can affect the application the fact that, because my status in Spain is "student" (I can't work fulltime, or being hired for a long term job), my father is supporting me? I can prove that he's in a good financial position, and that I've been receiving regularly amounts of money from him; but it seems that the authorities do not take that as something positive.

* Some extra info:

- My husband has been working for the same company during 3 years, and the wages he gets cover the minimun amount required in the new legislation

- My family owns several real estate properties in Costa Rica, we are equally co-owners (my brother, my father and me). But most of these properties are dedicated to preservation of the forest, we do not get money from them.

In the other hand, I was reading about the possibility of getting the 1A stamp on the border; but when we entered the UK last week (I'm staying with my husband before traveling back to Spain to present the application) we told the officer that we were married, but he didn't even let us show him the marriage certificate, he told us that if I didn't have any stamp on my passport "technically we were not traveling together". We tried to explain him that we are newlyweds, so I haven't got any "stamp" yet, but all he did was to keep saying "is there, or is there not a stamp that says that you can travel together?".

In the end, he allowed me to enter, but as a tourist. So that's why I think I must apply for the Family Permit anyway, even at risk of being refused. Besides, in the UKBA site it says that if you're from outside the EU (even if you are not a visa national) you must ask for the EEA-FP before coming to the UK.

I really appreciate any suggestion or advice.

Thanks in advance!

Obie
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Location: UK/Ireland
Ireland

Post by Obie » Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:29 pm

There are no changes to the EEA regulations that could have an impact on your ability to secure an EEA family permit.
Judge not, and you will not be judged.

CharlotteCorday
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Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:30 pm
Location: UK

Post by CharlotteCorday » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:08 am

Thank you very much for the answer Obie.

Jambo
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Re: Changes in EEA-FP application rules: economic solvency

Post by Jambo » Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:52 am

CharlotteCorday wrote:he told us that if I didn't have any stamp on my passport "technically we were not traveling together". We tried to explain him that we are newlyweds, so I haven't got any "stamp" yet, but all he did was to keep saying "is there, or is there not a stamp that says that you can travel together?". In the end, he allowed me to enter, but as a tourist. So that's why I think I must apply for the Family Permit anyway, even at risk of being refused.
This is complete nonsense. You don't need to have a stamp that says you are travelling together if you are standing in front of him !

You should have complained on the spot and ask to speak to the Chief Immigration Officer. He should not admit you as a tourist if this is not your intention.

Next time, refer him to the HO own guide which clearly states:

[quote=""Border Force Operations Manual - EEA Nationals & their family members" "]
5.5.2 Seeking admission at port

Applicants at port should be treated as persons seeking admission unless reference is made to applying for a residence card. Admission will fall into one of the following:

• produces satisfactory evidence on arrival

The person should be admitted for 6 months on a Code 1A. Complete landing card
[/quote]

CharlotteCorday wrote: Besides, in the UKBA site it says that if you're from outside the EU (even if you are not a visa national) you must ask for the EEA-FP before coming to the UK.
Although it says so on the website, this is not true. The HO even admits to that in one of their guides but I can link to it now as that document is currently under review.

Directive/2004/38/EC
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Location: does not matter if you are with your EEA family member

Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:09 pm

You do not have to have a job or have any assets. Neither does your EU citizen. Your husband can move to the UK today, and so can you.

http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/08 ... to-travel/ outlines entering the UK (or any other EU member state) without a visa (when a visa is "required").

If you want to work from day 0 (arrival day in the UK), it may help to have an EEA Family Permit. But otherwise it is not so useful.

mcovet
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Post by mcovet » Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:15 pm

basically, think of the EEA as one big country WITHOUT borders (if using the EU route and not internal immigration routes). Therefore, if you look at it this way, the border guards and the other incompetent bunch are IRRELEVANT to your case as they have no authority to ALLOW you to enter, you are in the SAME (hypothetically speaking) big country travelling between "cities", so you enter the UK as of your right and not with permission, and those guards are there not to interfere with those under EU route but rather with those limited to certain "cities" etc.

If people start grasping that concept, it would explain and give them more confidence in travelling in one big country which is EEA (EU + a couple of other countries).

Therefore, always call the Chief Immigration Officer when faced with a situation like that and ALWAYS take the shoulder number of the Immigration Officer talking nonsense. As a matter of fact, if he stamped a tourist endorsement into your passport, while you clearly fell into the 2006 Regulations, you can complain and get some form of apology and possibly compensation for illegally tampering with a passport.

Directive/2004/38/EC
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Location: does not matter if you are with your EEA family member

Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:47 pm

mcovet wrote:basically, think of the EEA as one big country WITHOUT borders (if using the EU route and not internal immigration routes). Therefore, if you look at it this way, the border guards and the other incompetent bunch are IRRELEVANT to your case as they have no authority to ALLOW you to enter, you are in the SAME (hypothetically speaking) big country travelling between "cities", so you enter the UK as of your right and not with permission, and those guards are there not to interfere with those under EU route but rather with those limited to certain "cities" etc.
Border guards can only REFUSE entry in a few very limited cases. e.g. if you are an ongoing threat to national security or if you have Ebola.
mcovet wrote:Therefore, always call the Chief Immigration Officer when faced with a situation like that and ALWAYS take the shoulder number of the Immigration Officer talking nonsense.
Two very good suggestions. In fact I would recommend writing down the shoulder numbers of all border guards present.
mcovet wrote:As a matter of fact, if he stamped a tourist endorsement into your passport, while you clearly fell into the 2006 Regulations, you can complain and get some form of apology and possibly compensation for illegally tampering with a passport.
Not quite. No stamping entry/exit stamps in the passport of a European citizen or of a non-EU citizen who has a valid Residence Valid. Border guards CAN stamp the passports of a family member who does not have a Residence Card.
Last edited by Directive/2004/38/EC on Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

CharlotteCorday
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Post by CharlotteCorday » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:35 am

Thank you all very much for the information and suggestions! Is good to have access to the details of the law, to know how to proceed. And sometimes, it doesn't matter how hard you research if you don't know exactly where to look. :P

Anyway, thanks again. I hope everything will be easier now.

smuru
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Post by smuru » Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:51 pm

By the way the code 1A stamp does give the right to work from day 0.
Top right of page 40 of the Comprehensive guidance for employers on preventing illegal working
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary
seems to be a code 1a.

Several UKBA documents also refer to the code 1a giving the right to work.

Jambo
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Post by Jambo » Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:16 pm

smuru wrote:By the way the code 1A stamp does give the right to work from day 0.
Top right of page 40 of the Comprehensive guidance for employers on preventing illegal working
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary
seems to be a code 1a.

Several UKBA documents also refer to the code 1a giving the right to work.
I concur.

smuru
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Post by smuru » Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:29 pm

I guess you noticed that before me Jambo

EUsmileWEallsmile
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Re: Changes in EEA-FP application rules: economic solvency

Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:36 pm

CharlotteCorday wrote:Hello!

First, the background of my situation: I am a Costa Rican (non-visa national) who's been studying and living in Spain during 4 years. 2 years ago, I met my husband in Hungary. He's been living in the UK for almost 6 years. Since we met, we kept in touch via chat, skype and visiting each other every 2 - 3 months. We decided to go steady at the beginning of 2011, and finally got married 2 weeks ago (in Hungary). We decided that the best was for me to come and join him in the UK, because he doesn't speak spanish.

I already have an appointment to apply for the EEA-FP in Spain, but after reading the recent changes in the inmigration law at the UKBA site, I'm feeling a little bit confused and nervous. My main question is:

- How can affect the application the fact that, because my status in Spain is "student" (I can't work fulltime, or being hired for a long term job), my father is supporting me? I can prove that he's in a good financial position, and that I've been receiving regularly amounts of money from him; but it seems that the authorities do not take that as something positive.

* Some extra info:

- My husband has been working for the same company during 3 years, and the wages he gets cover the minimun amount required in the new legislation

- My family owns several real estate properties in Costa Rica, we are equally co-owners (my brother, my father and me). But most of these properties are dedicated to preservation of the forest, we do not get money from them.

In the other hand, I was reading about the possibility of getting the 1A stamp on the border; but when we entered the UK last week (I'm staying with my husband before traveling back to Spain to present the application) we told the officer that we were married, but he didn't even let us show him the marriage certificate, he told us that if I didn't have any stamp on my passport "technically we were not traveling together". We tried to explain him that we are newlyweds, so I haven't got any "stamp" yet, but all he did was to keep saying "is there, or is there not a stamp that says that you can travel together?".

In the end, he allowed me to enter, but as a tourist. So that's why I think I must apply for the Family Permit anyway, even at risk of being refused. Besides, in the UKBA site it says that if you're from outside the EU (even if you are not a visa national) you must ask for the EEA-FP before coming to the UK.

I really appreciate any suggestion or advice.

Thanks in advance!
It is not uncommon for IOs to become confused with the EEA regulations (simple as they were - they've become excessively complicated recently.).

You can complain.

CharlotteCorday
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Location: UK

Post by CharlotteCorday » Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:30 pm

It is not uncommon for IOs to become confused with the EEA regulations (simple as they were - they've become excessively complicated recently.).

You can complain.
I will, if something similar happens again (hopefully it won't be necessary :) )

And I have another question, is not that important, but I'd like to know: I have dual citizenship (Costa Rica and USA), since they ask about any other passports you may hold I guess you have to present both...but would they keep both passports during the whole procedure, or just the one of the citizenship you're "using" to apply?

Jambo
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Post by Jambo » Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:57 pm

CharlotteCorday wrote: I will, if something similar happens again (hopefully it won't be necessary :) )

And I have another question, is not that important, but I'd like to know: I have dual citizenship (Costa Rica and USA), since they ask about any other passports you may hold I guess you have to present both...but would they keep both passports during the whole procedure, or just the one of the citizenship you're "using" to apply?
They are not asking about other passports but other nationalities. This is part of the personal information they ask to be able to search about you in their records.

You only need to provide one passport with the application.

CharlotteCorday
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Location: UK

Update - FP received

Post by CharlotteCorday » Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:24 am

I just got all my documents back, with the EEA FP vignette on my passport :D . Have to say that they were very efficient, I applied on August 10th (at the Application Centre in Madrid), so I'm very glad.

Would you suggest to apply for the Residence Card/EEA2 as soon as I get to the UK, or should I wait a few months before doing that?

Cheers!

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