Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Ron121 wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:43 pm

Hi I’m non eu national.my application refused for PR because my wife hold British citizens after I got my residence card 2013

Ok, so the situation we are all in this forum talking about. What basis did they reject your application under?
May i know how long did the process take after you submit your application and the decisions taken? Please, keep us in the loop on what is happening. This is the first time i get to know about someone being rejected his PR on this basis. Unbelievable the lack of common sense this people can have in the HO. Many thanks

Hi i applied for Permanent residence after 5 year of marriage date .june 2017 / November 2017 I got refuse .secretary of state pointed out that my wife was naturalised as British citizens on may 2013 and asserts tha an EEA national is a national of an EEA state who is not also a British citizens

Ron121 wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:23 pm

Hi i applied for Permanent residence after 5 year of marriage date .june 2017 / November 2017 I got refuse .secretary of state pointed out that my wife was naturalised as British citizens on may 2013 and asserts tha an EEA national is a national of an EEA state who is not also a British citizens

Understand. Did they advise whether or not you were consider as unlawful or illegal in the country and if you had to leave the UK to try to re-gain access to UK as spouse of a BC? did they retrieve your Residence Card? sorry to bother you with all these questions but as you know, im in the same boat and most probably be in your same situation in a few weeks! Many thanks

I have a question regarding English test and life in the UK test requirement.
Do my non eea wife need to pass these before applying for PR on my eea basis? Or it is not necessary.

I know it is different question from what you are guys discussing here but we need that to know.
I am in the same situation and we gonna submit application as I am aware off it will go to the Courts and there will be sorted it out hopefully.it seems that applying to HO for dual citizen's non eea family member is just the first step before you go to the Courts with that case.

Hi. On my refuse latter is ( for the purposes of this application, EEA national is a national of an EEA state WHO is not a British citizens.home office record show that you sponsor mrs xxxx was naturalised as British citizens on may 2013 and as result from that date is not eligible to sponsor your application. You have right of appeal against this decision under regulation 36 of the immigration Eu Economy area .the send our passports back and all ducoment the not say u leave the country or apply under uk low .

Ron121 wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:45 pm

My appeal hearing was 5 February2018 . The home office not ready and have no idea about lounes case that’s what the say to my Solicetor.and than the home Office contact the court to adjourned . I don’t know why. I contact the tribunal the say will write to me new date for my hearing . I ask them why the date change the saying HO need 40 days to things about this case

Do let us know the outcome.

Navaro2 wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:25 am

I have a question regarding English test and life in the UK test requirement.
Do my non eea wife need to pass these before applying for PR on my eea basis? Or it is not necessary.

There is no KoLL requirement under the EEA regulations.

Ron121 wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:37 am

Hi. On my refuse latter is ( for the purposes of this application, EEA national is a national of an EEA state WHO is not a British citizens.home office record show that you sponsor mrs xxxx was naturalised as British citizens on may 2013 and as result from that date is not eligible to sponsor your application. You have right of appeal against this decision under regulation 36 of the immigration Eu Economy area .the send our passports back and all ducoment the not say u leave the country or apply under uk low .

Hi Ron , you are No 1 on this forum who is done his PR application as Dual citizen`s non eu and let us know of what`s happened ! There is more and more people appearing with exactly the same situation (don`t know why) but nobody appealed until now (like you) after CJEU decision in `Lounes` in November.

Your story is very important for us so Thank you very much for explaining your case ! At least we are aware now that HO (as you said ) "had No Idea about CJEU decision in "Lounes"and it looks like there is going to be plenty of court cases (appeals) from Dual citizens .

I am shocked how the HO had no idea about ECJ ruling in Lounes` , this is just ridiculous to me , as they (HO) must be aware about things like that ! May it be that they just saying that to avoid giving PR to people ?
i am sure they must know about Lounes`and even if they don`t (ridiculous) ,there is plenty of people calling every day to them and asking about Lounes`, if it is been implemented or guidance been changed.

Is this not the reason for them to check that ECJ ruling and why people calling and asking or even sending applications with Lounes` ruling printout included ?)
Just amazing how stupid HO must be ... or smart ..if they purposely ignoring ECJ ruling in Lounes .

Definetely let us know please how it goes in Court and if the HO will accept the Lounes ruling ! Thank you again . We will be all waiting for your outcome unless there will be somebody else appealed after refuse based on Lounes` November ruling..

Ron121 wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:23 pm

Hi i applied for Permanent residence after 5 year of marriage date .june 2017 / November 2017 I got refuse .secretary of state pointed out that my wife was naturalised as British citizens on may 2013 and asserts tha an EEA national is a national of an EEA state who is not also a British citizens

Hi Ron,

I echo Chaoscontrol ! Many thanks to share your story and definetely we want to know the final outcome of it (hopefully sooner rather than later and successfully on your favor). This is unbelievable none sense! Total joke!. Looking at your dates, it looks to me that you would have fallen into the TA as your residence cards application was definetely submitted before the 16 of Oct 2012. Yo probably receive it long before this date as you said your 5 years ended on June 2017.. wether your wife a decision to become British after this date (may 2013) I reckon is irrelevant. If this was the case, then Why the application for PR for the guy above was appproved? Look at his story earlier on this same forum. So we can confirm the outcome of your aplication will depend on whom case worker’s desk would fall onto! This is just a total joke really. Even the fact of thinking regretting becoming BC because of this, it is a joke. This can’t be logic in any normal human being brain! Br

reynaldogr wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:42 pm

reynaldogr wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:15 pm

redvine wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:10 am

Hi there

I am non eea famil member married with eu citizen. I got my 5 years resident permit at 27-11-2012, my wife’s bulgarian and British (dual citizenship) she got British citizen at October 2014. After 5 years( my eea family member resident permit finished) I directly filled Permanent Residance aplication form (EEA PR) and send at 22-11-2017 and i got my permanent residence card yesterday (8-02-2018) this is my story

I think dont panic for dual citizenship just feel form and send on time.

One more thing i got a letter with my pr card from hone iffice it saying if your spouse British citizen you can apply British citizen as soon as so i dont need wait 12 months for apply to British citizen thats my bonus

Hi redvine,

Could you please clarify when did you apply for the Family member visa/entry clearance? if this was in July 2012 then, you were expected to succeed in your decision as you fell into the transitional period were dual nationality of your sponsor was still allowed. I very much appreciate your clarification as im definitely in the same boat and post Jul-2012. Unbelivale that we need to go through this sort of non sense paranoia just for the fact that i become british. I have mever regretted so much doing so. stupid black holds in the law they are just meant to take advantage of honest and hard working human beings!

Br

moreover, if you had applied for a Residence card (the 5 years one), before the 16/10/2012 you would have fallen in the Transitional Arrangements (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2012/1547/made). This seems to be the case, as you said the the residence card was granted on the 27/11/17, and this process normally take no less that 3 months. I think im still f u ced! My wife applied for her Residence card on the 13/03/2013. Just 4 months after the deadline!

Hi Ron,

In my previous message I was referring to this story from redvine. Check in above. I suppose he was a lucky one.

Br

Hello everyone ,
It looks like even Ron121 is covered is covered by TA and they resused his PR .If he had residence card or family permit in UK before 16 October 2012 then he is covered by TA no need to wait Lounes judgement implementation his situation is different than people after October 2012 so I think so far no one has applied people who came to U.K. after 16 October 2012 and there wil be no change in Lounes similar cases even after RON121 's court case . I will not waste time in July to apply because delays mean again delays going to court and confused what will hapen if case is waiting in courts after Brexit .I am confused .Thanks to all for information .Keep updates please.

Unluckyeea2 wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:34 am

Hello everyone ,
It looks like even Ron121 is covered is covered by TA and they resused his PR .If he had residence card or family permit in UK before 16 October 2012 then he is covered by TA no need to wait Lounes judgement implementation his situation is different than people after October 2012 so I think so far no one has applied people who came to U.K. after 16 October 2012 and there wil be no change in Lounes similar cases even after RON121 's court case . I will not waste time in July to apply because delays mean again delays going to court and confused what will hapen if case is waiting in courts after Brexit .I am confused .Thanks to all for information .Keep updates please.

For me the TA were made for non-EA Family members of Dual nationals (EA national/BC), who were already dual nationals by the time, their non-EA direct family member apply for RC or PR. This is nothing to do with our case. Our case for me is a grey area on UK immigration laws as we didn't do anything wrong as our spouses got their Residence Card when we were only EEA nationals. Weather or not, we took a decision in the future to become BC is not relevant to the TA. If this was the case, then the right you have to become BC after 6 years of leaving in the UK would have been tied up to the remaining years that your non-EA national FM has left for then to obtain PR. This doesn't make sense at all. Not even the lounes case is similar to ours. This case is even worst and for me it was an easy rejection by the HO, as this guy was applying for his Residence Card, and her EEA national FM was in fact, already BC. But then he appealed and was successful. The thing here, is this case is the only thing we have in other to try to get the PR without any inconveniences but by default, if Lounes case was favorable, ours is even more straight forward. Again, this is just my humble opinion from a normal human being brain logic. Br

Yes , I was thinking same before and when came to read posts in this forum that dual nationals can not use EEA law anymore then I called that useless my solicitor who applied my BC naturalization and he was talking rubbish nothing to worry that I am still holding EEA passport no problem but I did more research then found he was wrong .Main point is that after October 2012 rule is if EEA citizens with UK citizen dual nationals can not rely on EEA law so they have to follow UK law because of holding UK citizenship but after Lounes is different situation before was when you become British citizen then you lost EEA rights and can not sponsor non EEA family members .So confused . Thanks to all for information sharing and keep update please .

Brexit is on the corner if these cases are waiting judgement in courts and no decision is made before Brexit what will happen to those people aftre Brexit ? No more EEA law so jus follow UK law ? Anyone has any information please update thank you to all .

Unluckyeea2 wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:21 am

Brexit is on the corner if these cases are waiting judgement in courts and no decision is made before Brexit what will happen to those people aftre Brexit ? No more EEA law so jus follow UK law ? Anyone has any information please update thank you to all .

Here is the phone number for EUROPEAN COMMISSION's OFFICE IN LONDON :
if somebody with the very good english could call to them and explain that :
Home office is breaching the EU law by purposely not implementing C165/16 CJEU decision in Lounes and rejecting hundreds(thousands in the next couple months?) of PR applications using OLD UNupdated 2012 /2016 regulations ?
02079731992.
I was calling today but been told to call afternoon cause everybody at lunch time .

Hi chaosconrol ,thanks for updating and information .yes good job we have to let them know . Over the different people different answers best way is by writing letter or e-mail so I am trying to find somebody who can write properly because of my poor English. I read here in this forum some send e-mail to European commission about Brexit Withrawal Agreement but this person was not similar to our case his inquiry was not about dual national but only British and exercised treaty writes in EU countries and using EEA law in UK .Let us all effected people write to European Commission before Brexit because after Brexit no more EEA law . Thanks to all for information sharing .I will keep updating .

Unluckyeea2 wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:37 pm

Hi chaosconrol ,thanks for updating and information .yes good job we have to let them know . Over the different people different answers best way is by writing letter or e-mail so I am trying to find somebody who can write properly because of my poor English. I read here in this forum some send e-mail to European commission about Brexit Withrawal Agreement but this person was not similar to our case his inquiry was not about dual national but only British and exercised treaty writes in EU countries and using EEA law in UK .Let us all effected people write to European Commission before Brexit because after Brexit no more EEA law . Thanks to all for information sharing .I will keep updating .

Hi Chaoscontrol, I have called and spoke with a guy call Jeff Land, on the number you just gave us above. He gave me this email:

JUST-CITIZENSHIP@ec.europa.eu

to submitt my complain. Also he gave this number for further information (00322) 2950432. It is base on Brussels. I have spoken with a quite pleasant lady call Eva. She asked me to submit my complain through this website (see below link). The more we send the most likely to be picked up by the Head Office of European immigration rights (according to her). I suggest, all this forum start calling these numbers and sending their complaining of what we have seen in this forum and the situation our non-EA national are.

Link as follow:

https://ec.europa.eu/info/about-europea ... mplaint_en

Details of the authority or body you are complaining about:

Home Office – EEA applications UK
Home Office work case
furthernationalityenquiries@homefoffice.gsi.gov.uk
00443001232241
PO Box 590
DH99 1AD
Durham

use this details

reynaldogr wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:07 pm

Unluckyeea2 wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:37 pm

Hi chaosconrol ,thanks for updating and information .yes good job we have to let them know . Over the different people different answers best way is by writing letter or e-mail so I am trying to find somebody who can write properly because of my poor English. I read here in this forum some send e-mail to European commission about Brexit Withrawal Agreement but this person was not similar to our case his inquiry was not about dual national but only British and exercised treaty writes in EU countries and using EEA law in UK .Let us all effected people write to European Commission before Brexit because after Brexit no more EEA law . Thanks to all for information sharing .I will keep updating .

Hi Chaoscontrol, I have called and spoke with a guy call Jeff Land, on the number you just gave us above. He gave me this email:

JUST-CITIZENSHIP@ec.europa.eu

to submitt my complain. Also he gave this number for further information (00322) 2950432. It is base on Brussels. I have spoken with a quite pleasant lady call Eva. She asked me to submit my complain through this website (see below link). The more we send the most likely to be picked up by the Head Office of European immigration rights (according to her). I suggest, all this forum start calling these numbers and sending their complaining of what we have seen in this forum and the situation our non-EA national are.

Link as follow:

https://ec.europa.eu/info/about-europea ... mplaint_en

Details of the authority or body you are complaining about:

Home Office – EEA applications UK
Home Office work case
furthernationalityenquiries@homefoffice.gsi.gov.uk
00443001232241
PO Box 590
DH99 1AD
Durham

use this details

I reckon, this is the document submitted by the European Commission to the relevant policy makers of each EA Member States.

https://www.interieur.gouv.fr/content/d ... nal_en.pdf

This is the update from October to December 2017 where on page 8 refers to the Lounes case. I suppose then, from here, the UK policymakers will then issue the work case guidance.

I would print off this along with the full judgment when submitting my wife app.

Br

Hi reynaldogr , thank you good job .I am going to soon fill up complat form and send it .let us every affected people send soon please .thanx to all . Keep update please.

reynaldogr wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:07 pm

Unluckyeea2 wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:37 pm

Hi chaosconrol ,thanks for updating and information .yes good job we have to let them know . Over the different people different answers best way is by writing letter or e-mail so I am trying to find somebody who can write properly because of my poor English. I read here in this forum some send e-mail to European commission about Brexit Withrawal Agreement but this person was not similar to our case his inquiry was not about dual national but only British and exercised treaty writes in EU countries and using EEA law in UK .Let us all effected people write to European Commission before Brexit because after Brexit no more EEA law . Thanks to all for information sharing .I will keep updating .

Hi Chaoscontrol, I have called and spoke with a guy call Jeff Land, on the number you just gave us above. He gave me this email:

JUST-CITIZENSHIP@ec.europa.eu

to submitt my complain. Also he gave this number for further information (00322) 2950432. It is base on Brussels. I have spoken with a quite pleasant lady call Eva. She asked me to submit my complain through this website (see below link). The more we send the most likely to be picked up by the Head Office of European immigration rights (according to her). I suggest, all this forum start calling these numbers and sending their complaining of what we have seen in this forum and the situation our non-EA national are.

Link as follow:

https://ec.europa.eu/info/about-europea ... mplaint_en

Details of the authority or body you are complaining about:

Home Office – EEA applications UK
Home Office work case
furthernationalityenquiries@homefoffice.gsi.gov.uk
00443001232241
PO Box 590
DH99 1AD
Durham

use this details

Thanks for giving more details , I will send a complaint to them, I also found out that there is also an option for complaining directly to the HO by their complaint procedure :
https://www.gov.uk/government/organisat ... -procedure
and if they not solve the problem then there is the last thing : to write a compaint to OMBUDSMAN .
https://www.ombudsman.org.uk/

But the problem here is that the questions like this are decided by European comission in 12 months time which is crazy long for most of people on here in need to apply for their PR soon or very soon ,

so while all these complaints are good to make some pressure on HO to implement CJEU decision in Lounes into UK law in the future its still remains a lottery` and massive stressfull question :
how our PR applications will be decided (when we will apply in the next months) without any implementation of Lounes C-165/16 into UK law .. ?

another question arises : there should be some kind of deadline for the government of each country to implement CJEU decisions , what`s the deadline for UK ?

Thanks for all the recent information.

I have send a few emails and will contact my local MP as well to see if we can all get some clarification.

Hi all .update I contact my MP regarding refused my PR .My local MP explain to HO about Lounes case .after 3 weeks we got respond from them .because the give right to appeal and I have no choice so I appeal it to court .any way the ho write back to my Mp .
Mr xxx application was refused 9 November 2017 an appeal was lodged against that refusel decision 23 November 2017 . Wite her majesty court and tribunals service HMCTS operate independently from HO .this is to ensure that the appeal process is unbiased and fair to both parties.whilst mr xxx appeal is outstanding.we would not intervene or comment future on his case ..To much stress my hearing was on 5 February 2018 but the HO contact the court to adjourned.

Ron121 wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:22 pm

Hi all .update I contact my MP regarding refused my PR .My local MP explain to HO about Lounes case .after 3 weeks we got respond from them .because the give right to appeal and I have no choice so I appeal it to court .any way the ho write back to my Mp .
Mr xxx application was refused 9 November 2017 an appeal was lodged against that refusel decision 23 November 2017 . Wite her majesty court and tribunals service HMCTS operate independently from HO .this is to ensure that the appeal process is unbiased and fair to both parties.whilst mr xxx appeal is outstanding.we would not intervene or comment future on his case ..To much stress my hearing was on 5 February 2018 but the HO contact the court to adjourned.

Many thanks for the Update Ron121. I assume, there isn't much you can do for the moment. Let us know when there is a new date for your hearing. Praying for you mate! finger crossed it will all end up in a positive way for you and your family. Br

Hello everyone , thanks for updating . I think Ron121 case is different and he is coverd by TA 2012 rules so ours case is different because of post October 2012 rules and only we got chance to fight after Lounes successful . I don't think there are much people similar to our cases because most people whose families joined them before 16 October 2012 are covered by TA and only people who came to UK alone and brought their families later are got in mess but who came to UK together their families not because they would be applying PR together so not much people are effected .Let's all effected people complain . We are not covered by Brexit withdrawal Agreement . If no decision is made then after Brexit non EEA family members will be illegal ? That mean if living in rent then eviction from landlord , losing job and can not visit hospital ,GP ? Confused .

Unluckyeea2 wrote: ↑

Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:45 am

Hello everyone , thanks for updating . I think Ron121 case is different and he is coverd by TA 2012 rules so ours case is different because of post October 2012 rules and only we got chance to fight after Lounes successful . I don't think there are much people similar to our cases because most people whose families joined them before 16 October 2012 are covered by TA and only people who came to UK alone and brought their families later are got in mess but who came to UK together their families not because they would be applying PR together so not much people are effected .Let's all effected people complain . We are not covered by Brexit withdrawal Agreement . If no decision is made then after Brexit non EEA family members will be illegal ? That mean if living in rent then eviction from landlord , losing job and can not visit hospital ,GP ? Confused .

Hi Unluckyeea2,

Ron121 case is same as ours mate. TA is for people who were dual national BC/EA national by the time their non-EA nationals applied for a RC or PR. Ron121 EA national spouse got BC in 2014 which is post TA just like our case. Br