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Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Use this section for queries concerning applications on any of the EEA series of forms, and also for applications for EEA Family Permits.

Moderators: Casa, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, Zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe

kam999
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Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by kam999 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:06 am

Hi guys,
I sent my app last week didn't mention lounes. Did not have much gap between eu national acquiring british/ dual citizenship and non eea family member completing 5 years (none eea FM completed 5 years after one week eu national acquired british citizenship, a genuine mistake, lack of info on their page and of course we were unaware of the rules). However, gap is there and the law goes in case workers favour. Hence lounes is the last and only hope.
One thing I could not understand that the letter I posted early (HO reply) it says when eu-british dual national declare they acquire british nationality. Does it mean that if someone does not declare they won't bother checking it? I did mention it though.
Good luck to all of you.

silverman123
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Romania

Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by silverman123 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:00 pm

Hi@kim999
Once again in simple words
Home office tried to put all dual nationality in ONE basket. But ECJ FINISHED THIS PROBLEM.

EU citizen who never exercised their treaty rights in UK but they holding dual nationality Macarthy will apply.
EU CITIZEN WHO EXERCISED THEIR TREATY RIGHTS IN UK AND APPLIED FOR PERMANENT RESIDENCE THEN NATURALISED LOUNES WILL APPLY
AND THEY WILL HAVE THE RIGHT TO CARRY ON THEIR LIVES AS NORMAL WITH THEIR FAMILIES.
So don't worry about Gaps because simply won't effect you anymore.
Finger cross everything you will be ok.
And I'm pretty sure the HO will implement very soon in may it's likely to happen.

chaoscontrol
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Latvia

Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by chaoscontrol » Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:07 pm

I have no doubt anymore that HO will implement Lounes sooner or later (I got the same answer on Friday through MP like reynaldogr and other guy mentioned in there) ,

The main question and problem now is :

They going to implement Lounes in the way of giving DERIVATIVE right to all us instead of Permanent residence . If they going to do that , then again people will seek help in Courts , as this will be NOT what Lounes` judgement saying :

The third-country national is however eligible for a derived right of residence under Article 21(1) TFEU, on conditions which must not be stricter than those provided for by Directive 2004/38 for the grant of such a right to a third-country national who is a family member of a Union citizen who has exercised his right of freedom of movement by settling in a Member State other than the Member State of which he is a national.

What do you think about that guys ? Can HO implement Lounes in that way and we are still going to be loosers ?

silverman123
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Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by silverman123 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:38 am

Hi@choascontrol.
Well I had the same way of thinking sometimes about what of the HO will implement Lounes by meaning of (residence card only)
1.The fact is that the European Court of justice has ended this questions by saying EU who has exercised their treaty rights can carry on their life with their families.
2. EEA DEFINITION REGULATIONS 2
Means EEA NATIONS EXPECT BRITISH CITIZEN
And MACARTHY APPLIED
simply this definition wasn't clear because macarthy hasn't exercised her treaty rights
So this wasn't the last word for EEA REGULATIONS 2016.
BECAUSE LOUNES CAME UP WITH Different rules to those EU who exercised their treaty rights they have more rights and covered under TFEU article 21 plus the equality of right of residence who provided by the directive 2004/38.
So in my opinion the HO can't rely on EEA REGULATION 2 because simply it won't make any sense because we will get back to the same point which is that our spouse exercised his/her treaty rights in uk before naturalised
Unless if you didn't exercise your treaty rights so in this case macarthy will apply.
Guys can you please share your opinions?

silverman123
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Romania

Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by silverman123 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:57 am

And here is a case and I'm sure all of us know it.
]
https://tribunalsdecisions.service.gov. ... 00105-2016

Can you please READ PART 9 AND 10
It's says clearly EEA REGULATION DID NOT HELP THE HOME OFFICE ANYMORE BECAUSE THE EVENTS HAD PROVED OTHERWISE. ( lounes judgment)
so do you guys think that the HO still want to go to court!!!!????
The Law in our sides

Unluckyeea2
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Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by Unluckyeea2 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:20 am

Hi everyone ! Thanks to all for updating .@ Chaoscontrol I agree with your opinion first they tried to stop non EEA family members by flawed apply of Mcarthy to dual nationals who exercised treaty rights but long court battle by Lounes and ECJ forced them to stop but even after 14 November Lounes judgement they ignored to implement it that Brexit is on corner so they said all decisions are put on hold letter to chaoscontrol but again transitional period agreed till December 2020 and a lot of dual nationals similar to Lounes cases went to MPs and sending application and letter to them plus solicitors on behalf of their dual national clients writing letters to everywhere now forced them for implementing of Lounes judgement but still they will try to apply Lounes in way favouring to them their past shows that .@chaoscontrol make sure the letter of puting on hold all applications of dual nationals forward to European commission and ECJ .All affected people write to European commission . Derivative residence mean no PR and what will happen after Brexit date March 2019 ? All friend be serious is not easy so far .Thanks to all and please keep updatupd

Malik_01
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Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by Malik_01 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:24 pm

Hi there,

I was reading your article and was concerned about my right to live and work in UK :(

My wife got her BC recently and as she is now a Dual national, I am not sure being a spouse of EU national and having an RC would mean anything to me?

Arrival in the UK: Mar 2014
Renewal date: Mar 2019
Wife's BC date: Mar 2018

Could you please help as I am in touch with the HO and also on several articles it declares me as an unlawful resident under the immigration law.

Many thanks

pusched
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Portugal

Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by pusched » Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:21 pm

Unfortunately nothing is certain at the moment but this is an interesting read: https://europeanlawblog.eu/2018/03/05/l ... nd-brexit/

A few people here are in the middle of applying for PR EEA. Me and my partner will be in the same boat in December. I just got my BC, my partner is here with an EEA FP. We have travelled since and have had no issues.

I think it is important not to panic and keep on top of what is happening about this. Looks like recently HO finally started to address the Lournes case and soon, there should be further information.

From what I understand, the law is currently on our side provided the EU citizen has moved from their home country to the UK which is different to the McCarthy case.

silverman123
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Romania

Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by silverman123 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:52 pm

Agree with @pusched
It's very important not to panic HO start to address lounes.
I understand the panic and fear inside all og us. But the more i read about the more clear it becomes.

Also i went through(derivative right of residence) zambarono. Chen. Ibrahim
It's completely different cases than us.
Therefore there is no right of permanent residence because non of them stays on basis of freedom of movement.
Exercising treaty rights.
Is not even similar to our cases.
BUT (SURINDER SINGH)
IS DIFFERENT YOU CAN MAKE APPLICATIONS FOR RESIDENCE CARD AND PERMANENT RESIDENCE.
EDIN CASE THE SAME
O AND B THE SAME.
SIMPLY ALL OF THOSE CASES UNDER FREEDOM OF MOVEMENT
IN MY VIEWPOINT LOUNES WILL GO THE SAME WAY
And lounes judgment make it very clear by saying
Must be on conditions
MUST not be stricter than those who provided by the directive
It's equal to the directive.

Malik_01
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Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by Malik_01 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:12 pm

Guys,

I have found written evidence under the freedom of information act from www.whatdotheknow.com, a UK charity that supports people in their FOI requests.

The link is as below:

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... C.doc.html

Please give your feedback. Hopefully, we will hear some good news soon.

Awan

Adalba
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Brazil

Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by Adalba » Wed Apr 11, 2018 9:59 pm

Hi guys,

I am new here and hope someone can help me.

My case.

I am a no EEA/EU country. My wife is BRITISH born a also has IRISH citizenship.

We have been together for 7 years ( 2 years married), living in IRELAND where I have a Residency card [Stamp 4 EU family member( Exp 2021). I got this visa on the strength of she is been there exercising her free treat right of movement under the EU law.

Last December I got the family permit to come to UK with her.

Now I need to apply for family member here in Uk. We want to apply under the SURINDER SINGH route.

I have seen a lot of things out there. One that says, as she is a Irish national, we wouldn't be able to apply under the EU law, once she is a national in Ireland she would not be exercising her treat right of movement in this case.

If anyone has any information regards to this I appreciate.

thank guys.

ebi
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Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by ebi » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:14 am

Eligibility
@The family member of a British citizen, if you entered the UK under the EU law after living in another EEA country (‘Surinder Singh’ route) can also get permanent residence if you’ve lived in the UK for a continuous period of 5 years:

ebi
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Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by ebi » Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:19 pm

You must use a different form if you want to stay for another reason. Version 04/2018. EEA (FM) - version 04/18. This form is to be used for applications made on or after 11 April 2018 ... :D
Lounes case has been implemented : :D

ebi
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Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by ebi » Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:41 pm

EEA(FM)
Application for a registration certificate or residence card as the family member of a European Economic Area (EEA) or Swiss national Any further reference on this form to EEA nationals includes Swiss nationals.

Who this form is for: You may be able to apply online at https://visas-immigration.service.gov.uk/product/eea-qp. Use this application form if you are unable to apply online and you wish to apply for a registration certificate (if you’re an EEA national) or residence card (if you’re a non-EEA national) as: • the family member of a relevant EEA national, • a person who is no longer the family member of a relevant EEA national but you’ve retained your right of residence under EU law, or • the family member of a British citizen who you lived with in another EEA Member State before returning to the UK (‘Surinder Singh’ judgment) ‘Relevant EEA national’ means an EEA national who is (or was) in the UK as a ‘qualified person’ (worker, self-employed, self-sufficient, student, or jobseeker) or has a permanent right of residence in the UK under the EEA Regulations. Which family members can apply on this form? If the relevant EEA national only has a right to reside in the UK as a student, you must be the: • spouse or civil partner of the EEA national, or • dependent child of the EEA national, or of their spouse/civil partner.

all other cases, you must be the:
• spouse or civil partner of the relevant EEA national/British citizen,

• child or grandchild of the relevant EEA national/British citizen, or of their spouse/civil partner, and be aged under 21 or dependent, or
• dependent parent or grandparent of the relevant EEA national/British citizen, or of their spouse/civil partner.

You will only be considered for a registration certificate or residence card as the family member of an EEA national. You will not be considered for anything else. You must use a different form if you want to stay for another reason

ebi
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Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by ebi » Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:52 pm

Apply for a registration certificate or residence card for a family member: form EEA (FM)
Form for a family member of an EEA or Swiss national in the UK to apply for a registration certificate or residence card.

Published 30 January 2015

:D Last updated 11 April 2018 — see all updates
From:
UK Visas and Immigration

ebi
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Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by ebi » Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:55 pm

@ spouse or civil partner of the relevant EEA national/British citizen, 

ebi
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Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by ebi » Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:02 pm

www.eea_fm_-04-18-pdf
:D

eubritish
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Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by eubritish » Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:18 pm

I have also received an email from them in reply to my PAP saying the refusal of EEA Family Permit for my dependent Extended Family member has been overturned and the application will be re-considered.

Of course it doesn't mean the Family Permit will be issued, they may refuse it again for yet another reason, but at least the issue of dual nationality is out of the way.

The dual nationals I believe can now start to relax.

Branok
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Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by Branok » Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:21 pm

ebi wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:41 pm
EEA(FM)
Application for a registration certificate or residence card as the family member of a European Economic Area (EEA) or Swiss national Any further reference on this form to EEA nationals includes Swiss nationals.

Who this form is for: You may be able to apply online at https://visas-immigration.service.gov.uk/product/eea-qp. Use this application form if you are unable to apply online and you wish to apply for a registration certificate (if you’re an EEA national) or residence card (if you’re a non-EEA national) as: • the family member of a relevant EEA national, • a person who is no longer the family member of a relevant EEA national but you’ve retained your right of residence under EU law, or • the family member of a British citizen who you lived with in another EEA Member State before returning to the UK (‘Surinder Singh’ judgment) ‘Relevant EEA national’ means an EEA national who is (or was) in the UK as a ‘qualified person’ (worker, self-employed, self-sufficient, student, or jobseeker) or has a permanent right of residence in the UK under the EEA Regulations. Which family members can apply on this form? If the relevant EEA national only has a right to reside in the UK as a student, you must be the: • spouse or civil partner of the EEA national, or • dependent child of the EEA national, or of their spouse/civil partner.

all other cases, you must be the:
• spouse or civil partner of the relevant EEA national/British citizen,

• child or grandchild of the relevant EEA national/British citizen, or of their spouse/civil partner, and be aged under 21 or dependent, or
• dependent parent or grandparent of the relevant EEA national/British citizen, or of their spouse/civil partner.

You will only be considered for a registration certificate or residence card as the family member of an EEA national. You will not be considered for anything else. You must use a different form if you want to stay for another reason
That is the same wording as in the last version (03/2017) :/

ebi
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Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by ebi » Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:30 pm

spouse or civil partner of the relevant EEA national/British citizen, 

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