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Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Use this section for queries concerning applications on any of the EEA series of forms, and also for applications for EEA Family Permits.

Moderators: Casa, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, Zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe

salu
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Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by salu » Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:25 am

Hello everyone,

I also received my PR BRM yesterday, valid for 10 years.
Regarding citizenship it says that if married to UK citizen, i can apply straight away. I decided to wait until it is 12 months from PR, which my letter confirms is in October, so only 2 months away. Just enough time to prepare for the life in the uk test.

An additional late update: I did leave the country with my passport and a picture of an expired vignette (which is in my previous passport). I traveled with my sponsor and child, and marriage/birth certificates and proof of residence. They let me back in. Just in case someone is considering traveling without the document.

@ silverman123, I think your situation is unfair, and a pure mistake from the case worker.
It would be discriminatory to deny PR bc your sponsor is on maternity leave. She is employed, just on paid leave. If this were the protocol, in my view is discriminatory against female EU and their family members, as women take paternal leave way more frequently than men.

It is ridiculous if you were expected to plan your family around visa application dates! Besides already having to stop your normal lives during the application process...

What is your solicitor saying? what is your plan? I wish you all the best.

Thank you and everyone else in this forum for your support. It has made this wait a bit more bearable.

Salu.

salu
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Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by salu » Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:21 pm

Correction, I meant parental rather than paternal, clearly
salu wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:25 am
Hello everyone,

I also received my PR BRM yesterday, valid for 10 years.
Regarding citizenship it says that if married to UK citizen, i can apply straight away. I decided to wait until it is 12 months from PR, which my letter confirms is in October, so only 2 months away. Just enough time to prepare for the life in the uk test.

An additional late update: I did leave the country with my passport and a picture of an expired vignette (which is in my previous passport). I traveled with my sponsor and child, and marriage/birth certificates and proof of residence. They let me back in. Just in case someone is considering traveling without the document.

@ silverman123, I think your situation is unfair, and a pure mistake from the case worker.
It would be discriminatory to deny PR bc your sponsor is on maternity leave. She is employed, just on paid leave. If this were the protocol, in my view is discriminatory against female EU and their family members, as women take parental leave way more frequently than men.

It is ridiculous if you were expected to plan your family around visa application dates! Besides already having to stop your normal lives during the application process...

What is your solicitor saying? what is your plan? I wish you all the best.

Thank you and everyone else in this forum for your support. It has made this wait a bit more bearable.

Salu.

silverman123
Member
Posts: 110
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:05 pm
Romania

Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by silverman123 » Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:47 pm

Hi salu.
Congratulations man. You deserve it you have been since February.
Well i haven't heard anything from home office yet.
But as i mentioned before it doesn't looks like a mistake I think they meant to issue me another 5 years residence.
Either because the case worker does not know what maternity mean or he thought i should wait until my old residence card expires.
Which in both cases they are wrong.
At the moment i dont have any other options.
I will have to apply once again at i will know where I'm standing..
My solicitor is keep asking me to wait...
But wait for what!!!
They are not going to reply.
Or they may do after many complaints.
So best thing to do is just to do fresh application very soon.
@ Richard w
@Obie @vinny @CR001
I just need your opinion regarding to this case law
St Prix C-507/12; effect) (maternity case) [2015] UKUT 540 (IAC)  
Do you recommend to add this case law to my covering letter??
Or is not going to help???
Many thanks in advance

kam999
Junior Member
Posts: 72
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:24 pm

Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by kam999 » Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:05 pm

salu wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:25 am
Hello everyone,

I also received my PR BRM yesterday, valid for 10 years.
Regarding citizenship it says that if married to UK citizen, i can apply straight away. I decided to wait until it is 12 months from PR, which my letter confirms is in October, so only 2 months away. Just enough time to prepare for the life in the uk test.

An additional late update: I did leave the country with my passport and a picture of an expired vignette (which is in my previous passport). I traveled with my sponsor and child, and marriage/birth certificates and proof of residence. They let me back in. Just in case someone is considering traveling without the document.

@ silverman123, I think your situation is unfair, and a pure mistake from the case worker.
It would be discriminatory to deny PR bc your sponsor is on maternity leave. She is employed, just on paid leave. If this were the protocol, in my view is discriminatory against female EU and their family members, as women take paternal leave way more frequently than men.

It is ridiculous if you were expected to plan your family around visa application dates! Besides already having to stop your normal lives during the application process...

What is your solicitor saying? what is your plan? I wish you all the best.

Thank you and everyone else in this forum for your support. It has made this wait a bit more bearable.

Salu.
congrats mate,

I just need some more details if it's not too much trouble for you. Could you please tell us how long it took them to issue you your PRC and when was ur residence card expiring i.e. month/2018. also if u could recall, how long it took them to issue the family permit 5 years ago. I m just trying to connect the dots.
Thank a lot for ur help in advance.

salu
Newly Registered
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 11:44 pm

Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by salu » Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:49 pm

Hey kam999,
Here's my timeline:
5 years of marriage in Oct 2017
Residence vignette valid from June 2013 to June 2018

Sent all the documents on 30/01/18 (~5 months before vignette expired!)
Submitted biometrics on 15/02/18
My confirmation of application is dated 16/02/18

... long wait ...
[irrelevant detail: requested current passport for traveling in mid June, received it 10 days later]
...more waiting...

Received letter confirming PR (from 5th anniversary of marriage) and other documentation submitted (sponsor's id, PR, old visas, old passports, bank statements) on 01/08/18

Received PR 02/08/18, dated 30/07/18, exactly 6 months from application!

@Silverman, you have PR, and you applied after 5 years of marriage, you should get your PRC!!!
I agree with you, I am Not sure what you are supposed to wait for!
You are supposed to apply before (no more than 6 months) your vignette expires, not after.
Maternity leave does not affect your wife's rights or exercise of them. If this is the reason for their decision, it is very wrong. In my view, you should not wait.

Please keep us posted, so everyone else still waiting, I really hope everyone gets good news soon.

Unluckyeea2
Junior Member
Posts: 88
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Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by Unluckyeea2 » Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:35 pm

Hi everyone !
Thanks for updates and sharing stories .

@ Salu congratulations and thanks for good news after long time . I don't have old expired EEA passport because renewing authorities kept it but I have got renewed passport and old plus new EU ID cards anyone have problem not having old passport ? Did you submit utility bills and Bank statements in joint names or individuals please update .Thank you .

silverman123
Member
Posts: 110
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:05 pm
Romania

Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by silverman123 » Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:33 pm

salu wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:49 pm
Hey kam999,
Here's my timeline:
5 years of marriage in Oct 2017
Residence vignette valid from June 2013 to June 2018

Sent all the documents on 30/01/18 (~5 months before vignette expired!)
Submitted biometrics on 15/02/18
My confirmation of application is dated 16/02/18

... long wait ...
[irrelevant detail: requested current passport for traveling in mid June, received it 10 days later]
...more waiting...

Received letter confirming PR (from 5th anniversary of marriage) and other documentation submitted (sponsor's id, PR, old visas, old passports, bank statements) on 01/08/18

Received PR 02/08/18, dated 30/07/18, exactly 6 months from application!

@Silverman, you have PR, and you applied after 5 years of marriage, you should get your PRC!!!
I agree with you, I am Not sure what you are supposed to wait for!
You are supposed to apply before (no more than 6 months) your vignette expires, not after.
Maternity leave does not affect your wife's rights or exercise of them.
@salu
How did you know not more than 6 months before visa expires!!??

silverman123
Member
Posts: 110
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:05 pm
Romania

Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by silverman123 » Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:45 pm

@salu
How did you know not more than 6 months before visa expires!!??
Then i applied to early then.
Because i applied in mid of may while my residence card finishes on 29 of November.
Do you think this what caused the problem??
I wish if this was the problem not my wife maternity

silverman123
Member
Posts: 110
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:05 pm
Romania

Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by silverman123 » Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:45 am

@salu @kam999
Family members of dual British and
EEA nationals
This section explains the conditions to be met when a family member of a dual
British and European Economic Area (EEA) national applies for a document
confirming a right to reside in the UK. These are often described as so-called
‘Lounes’ cases after the Court of Justice of the European Union case of that name
(C-165/16).
The relevant conditions for this type of application are at regulation 9A of the
Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2016 (as amended) (the 2016
Regulations) and should be treated as if they were in force at all relevant times.
A dual British and EEA national will continue to be an EEA national for the purposes
of the 2016 Regulations, as defined in regulation 2(1), if:
• the dual British and EEA national exercised free movement rights in the UK as
a worker, self-employed person, self-sufficient person or student, or had a
right of permanent residence in the UK prior to the acquisition of British
citizenship
1• subsequently acquired British citizenship, while also retaining their nationality
of origin
2• the dual British and EEA national continues to exercise Treaty rights or holds
A RIGHT OF PERMANENT RESIDENCE
The family members of dual British and EEA nationals meeting these criteria will
continue to be eligible to apply for the documentation available under regulations 12,
17, 18 or 19 of the 2016 Regulations.

WELL
It's very clear in point 2
Either to continue exercising her treaty rights or hold permanent residence.
So maybe is not the maternity then because simply she hold the right of permanent residence since 2015( so even if my wife does not exercise her treaty rights but she hold her permanent residence i should get my permanent residence) that what the home office says.
My expectation is they though i applied to early than i should be in this case home office will send me another 5 years residence card.

I. Will apply again next week hopefully i will get any response soon.
Many thanks guys.
I'm so happy that everyone getting his/her permanent residence after a long time of panic and stress.
Please keep in touch in this forum.

silverman123
Member
Posts: 110
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:05 pm
Romania

Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by silverman123 » Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:54 am

@salu
How did you know that i should apply for my permanent residence no more than 6 months) vignette expires???
Many thanks.

salu
Newly Registered
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 11:44 pm

Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by salu » Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:10 am

Hello,
Actually, I don't think this is an EEA rule. It was probably applicable to a visa I held before, but now I am not sure! My apologies for being misleading!!!

Looking for information on this, other visa types have shorter times. Reading through a topic in this website, i read a post from one of the moderators saying that it doesnt matter what your permit says, what matters is that you have your 5 years at the time of application. So I really don't think this is what is happening in your case.

CR001 says:
"You need 5 years residence. When you can apply depends on your relationship with your EU sponsor.

There is no '28 days early' concession for EEA/EU route applications."

And secret.simon adds:
"The applicant must have completed five years of residence in the UK under the EEA Regulations before application. The date on the RC is irrelevant. So, if for instance, a non-EEA person married an EEA citizen in the UK and the EEA citizen was consistently exercising treaty rights throughout the five years, the non-EEA citizen can apply on the fifth anniversary of the marriage, irrespective of the date of the Residence Card."

This is the link to that discussion (I think it is ok to post from same website!?):
eea-route-applications/how-early-can-yo ... 44284.html

Good luck with your new application. Are you adding a cover letter saying that you are applying after 5 years of marriage with sponsor (and having held a EEA family permit throughout)?

@kam999: I forgot to add, my previous family permit took longer than 6 months. It was actually very difficult to get my passport back. Apparently, it had been misplaced on someone's desk... I will just say that my experience with the HO has been tricky, and I am happy to have a break for a while.

Navaro2
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Posts: 28
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Location: Lindford

Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by Navaro2 » Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:42 pm

Hi

My wife received a letter confirming her permanent card and status Today and then 2 h later another guy delivered a letter with her permanent residence card.

We sent application at the end of May and it took 2 months to process.

However She joined me in December 2012 and then applied for 5 years EEA family member residence card in 2013. I became British citizen in 2017.

We mentioned about Lounes case in very short note only but we sent 2 prints out from final judgement.
We sent loads of supporting documents in order with stickers to explain what is what and that is all about.

I would like to say thank you those here who advised us on what to do and those who gave us the right useful info.
I wish you good luck with your applications


Navaro

silverman123
Member
Posts: 110
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:05 pm
Romania

Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by silverman123 » Sun Aug 05, 2018 11:09 am

Dear moderator and friends.
I will apply once again for my permanent residence next week.
Do you recommend to add this case law in my covering letter?????

Weldemichael and another (St Prix [2014] EUECJ C-507/12; effect ) [2015] UKUT 540 (IAC)

And as you aware from my previous posts that my wife acquired permanent residence in 2015.
And never stop working since 2010.
And still employed but on maternity pay at the moment.

And i have confirmation from her employer that she is going back to work in October once maternity pay stop.
So she is not going to stay 12 moths home. Just 9 months only.
Need your help please.
Many thanks in advance.

marcsiga
Junior Member
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:57 pm
Location: London

Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by marcsiga » Sun Aug 05, 2018 4:14 pm

Good afternoon All,

I am in process of filling the form and I have couple of question. If you guys could answer me would be amazing.
My partner for 8 Years, who i consider my husband as we had a religious marriage got his residence documentation ( unmarried partner-extended Family member) in 2013 September.

I was just reading the the 2016 no. 1052 legislation and one of the” Definitions of the Family member” is :

(3) A person (“B”) who is an extended family member and has been issued with an EEA family permit, a registration certificate or a residence card must be treated as a family member of A, provided—
(a)B continues to satisfy the conditions in regulation 8(2), (3), (4) or (5); and
(b)the EEA family permit, registration certificate or residence card remains in force.

1. Does this means that my husband is a family member and not in the extended family member category? Or I understood it wrong?

2.
In terms of bills/ listed documents do we need to send only one from each year from all documents what listed.

Sorry if I am annoying but I didnt really get it :-(

Thanks for all of you in advance.

Maria

kam999
Junior Member
Posts: 72
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:24 pm

Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by kam999 » Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:28 pm

Hi Guys,

Salu - Thank you for sharing the relevant details.

Navaro2 - Congratulations

Silver - There is no such thing to apply for PRC while ur RC has less then 6 month validity, the law says, once you completed 5 years with the conditions you are eligible to apply for PRC. Please get more info abt maternity leave prior to sending them another application. Senior members may be able to help and only then add that Weldemichael and another judgement. Reason, this time they might have sent resident card to you in error and you by adding more/irrelevant info will make your case complicated urself.

good luck waiters (I am one of you too :? )

Stawberrys
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Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by Stawberrys » Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:21 pm

lappotto wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:38 pm
All, amazing news (in my opinion).

The HO has published this long faff about settled status https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... e_2018.pdf. Hidden at page 24, footnote 16, the HO has, to my knowledge, confirmed that an EU citizen includes someone with a dual EU-UK nationality.

Not a change to the EEA regulations, but still a positive sign for whoever, like me, would like to apply for British Nationality but has a non-EEA spouse.
I'm at the same situation, has anyone apply for BC yet? Is it definitely fine for the right of a non eea spouse.

kam999
Junior Member
Posts: 72
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:24 pm

Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by kam999 » Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:59 am

Stawberrys wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:21 pm
lappotto wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:38 pm
All, amazing news (in my opinion).

The HO has published this long faff about settled status https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... e_2018.pdf. Hidden at page 24, footnote 16, the HO has, to my knowledge, confirmed that an EU citizen includes someone with a dual EU-UK nationality.

Not a change to the EEA regulations, but still a positive sign for whoever, like me, would like to apply for British Nationality but has a non-EEA spouse.
I'm at the same situation, has anyone apply for BC yet? Is it definitely fine for the right of a non eea spouse.
Hi Stawberrys,

Most users on this thread have acquired dual nationality in the past and many of their partners have successfully obtained PRC, thanks to Lounes who has saved them and they don't have to apply under UK immigration rules.

You can wait until ur spouse acquires PRC or you can apply for British citizenship and ur spouse can confidently apply for PRC when his time comes.. Law has been amended and things are in our favour.

However, if you want to apply for BC now make sure ur back home allows dual nationality as you have to retain ur European nationality in order to accommodate ur spouse's PRC application.

kam999
Junior Member
Posts: 72
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:24 pm

Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by kam999 » Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:52 am

marcsiga wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 4:14 pm
Good afternoon All,

I am in process of filling the form and I have couple of question. If you guys could answer me would be amazing.
My partner for 8 Years, who i consider my husband as we had a religious marriage got his residence documentation ( unmarried partner-extended Family member) in 2013 September.

I was just reading the the 2016 no. 1052 legislation and one of the” Definitions of the Family member” is :

(3) A person (“B”) who is an extended family member and has been issued with an EEA family permit, a registration certificate or a residence card must be treated as a family member of A, provided—
(a)B continues to satisfy the conditions in regulation 8(2), (3), (4) or (5); and
(b)the EEA family permit, registration certificate or residence card remains in force.

1. Does this means that my husband is a family member and not in the extended family member category? Or I understood it wrong?

2.
In terms of bills/ listed documents do we need to send only one from each year from all documents what listed.

Sorry if I am annoying but I didnt really get it :-(

Thanks for all of you in advance.

Maria
Hi marcsiga,

I am not an expert but just to add my two cents:

In regards to ur question 1, I think you are right in thinking that ur spouse is family member and not extended family member. On page 6 of the below link it says the same and on page 7 it explains who extended family members are these the guidelines to caseworkers: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... s-V6.0.pdf
You can explain it against question 1.10 on the application form. I would highly recommend to register ur marriage in either ur or his country (ideally both) and add an english translated certified copy with ur app, it will only strengthen ur case.

ur question 2's answer depend on who's applying i.e. urself, ur spouse or both of u. I can share what i did (my partner already acquired DCPR so i dont have provide too much of her activity in UK:
please be advised u need to prove that u r exercising treaty rights, u both live together so again as per ur circumstances they need from both of u last 5 years P60's (ur P60's are must, his can prove that u both are sharing accommodation), 3 to 4 payslips with no more gap of 3 to 4 months each year. all Gov letters if u have like driving license, CRB checks, SIA's and then bank statements, bills, tenancy agreements etc. what it says in the guidance notes is the minimum what u should provide.

marcsiga
Junior Member
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:57 pm
Location: London

Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by marcsiga » Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:34 pm

Hi Kam999,

Thank you much for ur time and energy to reply me. It really does mean a lot to me.
We collected all documents what it says in the website ,
We just need to organise them in a way that will be easy fornthe caseworker to handle them.

Thank u for the link also :-)

I have many questions regarding filling the form.. but once We started filling the form I will bring up my questions. Until than I am just silent reading and trying to get as many information as possible.

Thank u so much again Kam999.

Marcsiga

ebi
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Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:03 am
Pakistan

Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by ebi » Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:24 pm

Hello Guys
I received my PR BRC on this Monday (06/08) and I applied online straight away for BC and the first UK passport at the same time yesterday evening.
Using the Nationality Document Return Service (NDRS) and (JCAP) , which was hold today .I have already had the life in the uk test for two years ago.

Bless God and Lounes :D

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