Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Cupcake567 · Post by **Cupcake567** » Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:26 pm

Good afernoon, I am resubmitting my previous post. Please, please advise.

Hello All,

I have came across the “Free movements rights - direct family members of EEA national” document (you can find it here https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... PDF#page25).

Am I right saying that EEA national who will also obtain British citizenship can hold their EEA rights now, as per page 24 on the above document?

Im EEA, having permanent residence card, and my non-EEA husband only arrived to UK now on his Family Permit. I would like to apply for BC but I was hold back by previous regulations which stated I will lose my EEA rights once become BC. Does it mean that I can apply for BC now, based on a new law, and he can stay in UK based on my EEA rights?

Another concern is- should he apply for his Residence Card first and only after he gets one I should apply for BC or I can apply for BC even before he holds his REsidency card? His Family permit expires beginning of next year, can he apply for Residency Card now or he needs to wait until FP is about to expire?

Please help me to clarify the above as I am afraid that me applying for BC can mess up his rights in UK. Also, after obtaining Residence Card, after 5 years, he could apply for a Permamnet Residence Card or even British Nationality?

Any support would be much appreciated.

Thank you.
[/quote]

kam999 · Post by **kam999** » Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:12 pm

salu wrote: ↑
Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:56 pm
@ Badis: I'm no expert but I believe your case is pretty much like the McCarthy case, which must of us have been collateral damage of... until the Lounes ruling.
If I correctly understood your story, I agree that you have to stay in the 'UK route'. I don't think you can use the 'EU route' (anymore) if the European rights of your sponsor come only through ancestry, unless the sponsor has actually lived in a European country. Good luck and keep us posted!

@ bmrpl: congratulations on getting your brp sorted so quickly!!!

@ everyone who's still reading this forum, I wanted to share with you that I've got my BC. One of the things I wasn't aware of is that you need to send your brp to have it safely destroyed afterwards. I cut it in 2 and sent it, but it was a strange feeling to get rid of something that took so much energy to get...

Good luck everyone!

Congratulations Salu,

Well deserved bro, all the best. I may apply for BC in couple of years, for now, I am enjoying my BRP and visiting around the world and waiting for settled status to open for lay persons to go for it.

kam999 · Post by **kam999** » Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:54 pm

Cupcake567 wrote: ↑
Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:26 pm
Good afernoon, I am resubmitting my previous post. Please, please advise.

Hello All,

I have came across the “Free movements rights - direct family members of EEA national” document (you can find it here https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... PDF#page25).

Am I right saying that EEA national who will also obtain British citizenship can hold their EEA rights now, as per page 24 on the above document?

Im EEA, having permanent residence card, and my non-EEA husband only arrived to UK now on his Family Permit. I would like to apply for BC but I was hold back by previous regulations which stated I will lose my EEA rights once become BC. Does it mean that I can apply for BC now, based on a new law, and he can stay in UK based on my EEA rights?

Another concern is- should he apply for his Residence Card first and only after he gets one I should apply for BC or I can apply for BC even before he holds his REsidency card? His Family permit expires beginning of next year, can he apply for Residency Card now or he needs to wait until FP is about to expire?

Please help me to clarify the above as I am afraid that me applying for BC can mess up his rights in UK. Also, after obtaining Residence Card, after 5 years, he could apply for a Permamnet Residence Card or even British Nationality?

Any support would be much appreciated.

Thank you.

[/quote]

Hi Cupcake,

Your questions have been answered in this very thread. I would highly recommend to go through it thoroughly not just to find out your answers but also to gain some knowledge in order to submit the right documents for your spouse while applying for his RC.

In a nutshell, yes, you can apply for BC as long as your EU country allows dual nationality, and it should not effect your husband's status. Just to put you at ease, I recently got my permanent residence card same way where my partner had achieved BC in the past and there are many more in this forum following the same route.

You should start taking the relevant tests (if you haven't already) i.e. language and knowledge for our BC, and in the meanwhile prepare his case. if you guys don't have a history with HO his RC should be issued shortly. I can understand the hastiness of you going for BC but you are covered as you have obtained PRC.

Soon HO will open a portal for settled status (it is already opened for skilled workers) which is a mere updated status of EU nationals who did not obtained BC. Once it is open you can switch your status from PRC to settled status free of charge and your husband (I am not sure with or without RC he can) apply for pre-settled status cost £65 (same fee as RC). So to be on the safe side he should apply for RC asap as he is going to do it anyway in the near future. I hope it helps. Please be advised it is just my personal knowledge and info I gathered from this forum and other resources and it is not a legal advice. I received a lot of help from this forum, its just pay back time.

E Li · Post by **E Li** » Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:48 pm

kam999 wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:38 pm

E Li wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:20 am
My husband was born in the UK, his farher is british, mum is dutch.
He is a british citizen and also has Dutch nationalilty.
At the moment he only has Dutch passport, doesn’t have british passport. As he moved to Holland when he was a child and changed his surname.

I’m non-EEA, married to him in 2012.
I got eea family permit in 2013 and eea residence card in 2014.
We are trying to applying EEA PR now. Fill in the application form and memtion he is also british citizen.
Is it our case same as Louse case?
Can we still get EEA PR?
hi E Li,

Looking at your posts it seems that you have already sent your application. As per your details your case can fall under Surinder Singh route. However, if i were you I would add an explanatory cover letter with the application and leave it to HO to decide under what category they will process it i.e. Surinder Singh or Lounes, in the letter I would mention how long your husband has stayed and worked in Netherlands and how long in UK as this will be the core of your case, and the rest of the guidance is all in the caseworkers guidance notes which I believe you red and act accordingly. Be optimistic, (I think) your case cannot be refused just because it falls under Lounes or Surinder Singh but the rest of the facts should be straight forward and digestible to the caseworker. All the best.

Thanks for helping me.
You are right, I already applied EEA PR before posted this message.
I just got BRP card yeasterday which wrote permanent residence for 10 years.
However I haven’t got the decision letter and our documents yet.
Not sure if this is the PR card?
As most of people get decision letter and documents before the BRP card.

bmrpl · Post by **bmrpl** » Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:20 am

Hi @E Li

Well done for sorting your PR out. I'm not sure why HO is in such a rush (not complaining though).

My wife's and step daughter's case was very similar - have a look few posts above. They received PR extremely quick and my daughter's CoA letter arrived AFTER the actual permanent residence card. The only thing I can think of is that they want to clear their decks before all the brexit mess and settlement status applications?

kam999 · Post by **kam999** » Thu Nov 22, 2018 2:56 pm

E Li wrote: ↑
Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:48 pm

kam999 wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:38 pm

E Li wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:20 am

Thanks for helping me.
You are right, I already applied EEA PR before posted this message.
I just got BRP card yeasterday which wrote permanent residence for 10 years.
However I haven’t got the decision letter and our documents yet.
Not sure if this is the PR card?
As most of people get decision letter and documents before the BRP card.
Hi E Li,

Congratulations! Yes, you received PRC, the 10 year age is to renew the photo n stuff. However, you wont be worrying about it as by then you less likely would have settled status and most likely would have achieved BC. Your rest of the documents should follow shortly after the card. All the best.

E Li · Post by **E Li** » Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:14 pm

kam999 wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 22, 2018 2:56 pm

E Li wrote: ↑
Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:48 pm

kam999 wrote: ↑
Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:38 pm

E Li wrote: ↑
Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:20 am

Thanks for helping me.
You are right, I already applied EEA PR before posted this message.
I just got BRP card yeasterday which wrote permanent residence for 10 years.
However I haven’t got the decision letter and our documents yet.
Not sure if this is the PR card?
As most of people get decision letter and documents before the BRP card.
Hi E Li,

Congratulations! Yes, you received PRC, the 10 year age is to renew the photo n stuff. However, you wont be worrying about it as by then you less likely would have settled status and most likely would have achieved BC. Your rest of the documents should follow shortly after the card. All the best.
Thanks Kam, I got decision letter, my husband PR card and all the documents today.
We will need to change to British Settlement after 30/03/2018, then after 1 year can apply British citizen.
I think it will be only me to apply British citizen.
My husband should just claim his British passport.

AlfaBeta123 · Post by **AlfaBeta123** » Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:38 pm

Dear all,
I would like to hear your opinion please.
I'm a Dual national (obtained BC in November 2017).
My extended family member (non eea) (sister in law) is applying for her Permanent residence card this week (her Residence card 5 year period is finishing this month).
Will she have any challenges/issues due to me obtaining my BC in November 17?
Your help is much appreciated.

Unluckyeea2 · Post by **Unluckyeea2** » Sun Dec 02, 2018 10:01 am

Hi Alfabeta123 , After ECJ ruling on Lounes EEA regulation amended in July 2018 for EEA nationals who naturalised after exercising treaty rights .There shouldn’t be difference because of your BC .

franzel8 · Post by **franzel8** » Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:29 pm

Hi, guys, just wanted to double check my understanding of the current regulations.. I am a non-EU family member and my husband recently got his PR. Based on the issue date of the PR, he can apply for BC already, but I am worried that it can impact my residence route. Do I understand correctly that I will still be allowed to stay in the UK with my EEA residence permit and upgrade it to PR in due course, while my husband has a EU-UK dual citizenship?
Thanks!!

Malik_01 · Post by **Malik_01** » Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:05 pm

Hi Kam,

Congratulations for your PR card. My question to you is that whether you needed to quote Lounes case with your application? If yes, then what material or publications did you use?

My PR is due in March this year and my wife already has both PR and BC. I am also thinking whether I should wait for Settled status or simply apply under the paper-based application basis.

Much appreciated,

A

kam999 wrote: ↑
Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:54 pm

Cupcake567 wrote: ↑
Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:26 pm
Good afernoon, I am resubmitting my previous post. Please, please advise.

Hello All,

I have came across the “Free movements rights - direct family members of EEA national” document (you can find it here https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... PDF#page25).

Am I right saying that EEA national who will also obtain British citizenship can hold their EEA rights now, as per page 24 on the above document?

Im EEA, having permanent residence card, and my non-EEA husband only arrived to UK now on his Family Permit. I would like to apply for BC but I was hold back by previous regulations which stated I will lose my EEA rights once become BC. Does it mean that I can apply for BC now, based on a new law, and he can stay in UK based on my EEA rights?

Another concern is- should he apply for his Residence Card first and only after he gets one I should apply for BC or I can apply for BC even before he holds his REsidency card? His Family permit expires beginning of next year, can he apply for Residency Card now or he needs to wait until FP is about to expire?

Please help me to clarify the above as I am afraid that me applying for BC can mess up his rights in UK. Also, after obtaining Residence Card, after 5 years, he could apply for a Permamnet Residence Card or even British Nationality?

Any support would be much appreciated.

Thank you.

Hi Cupcake,

Your questions have been answered in this very thread. I would highly recommend to go through it thoroughly not just to find out your answers but also to gain some knowledge in order to submit the right documents for your spouse while applying for his RC.

In a nutshell, yes, you can apply for BC as long as your EU country allows dual nationality, and it should not effect your husband's status. Just to put you at ease, I recently got my permanent residence card same way where my partner had achieved BC in the past and there are many more in this forum following the same route.

You should start taking the relevant tests (if you haven't already) i.e. language and knowledge for our BC, and in the meanwhile prepare his case. if you guys don't have a history with HO his RC should be issued shortly. I can understand the hastiness of you going for BC but you are covered as you have obtained PRC.

Soon HO will open a portal for settled status (it is already opened for skilled workers) which is a mere updated status of EU nationals who did not obtained BC. Once it is open you can switch your status from PRC to settled status free of charge and your husband (I am not sure with or without RC he can) apply for pre-settled status cost £65 (same fee as RC). So to be on the safe side he should apply for RC asap as he is going to do it anyway in the near future. I hope it helps. Please be advised it is just my personal knowledge and info I gathered from this forum and other resources and it is not a legal advice. I received a lot of help from this forum, its just pay back time.
[/quote]

kam999 · Post by **kam999** » Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:34 pm

Malik_01 wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:05 pm
Hi Kam,

Congratulations for your PR card. My question to you is that whether you needed to quote Lounes case with your application? If yes, then what material or publications did you use?

My PR is due in March this year and my wife already has both PR and BC. I am also thinking whether I should wait for Settled status or simply apply under the paper-based application basis.

Much appreciated,

A

kam999 wrote: ↑
Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:54 pm

Cupcake567 wrote: ↑
Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:26 pm
Good afernoon, I am resubmitting my previous post. Please, please advise.

Thank you.

[/quote]

Thank you Malik,

No,I did not add anything regarding Lounes, reason, i was couple of weeks due to complete my 5 years in GB the moment my spouse took the Oath of Allegiance. It was more like drawing HO's attention to myself and towards something they might would disregard. That being said, there were some users on this forum who added the ECJ ruling regarding Lounes with their applications. My advice to you, since HO embrace the ruling and EEA regulations have been amended, you don't really need to add anything, but if you want to be extra secure you can add ref of amended regulations, I think it's section 9A on the list.

Your application submission timings are critical, although HO assures that in case of No Deal, the EU Settlement Scheme will continue to be implemented, but you never know. Settled status scheme will be open fully by 30 March 2019, as per their website and the deadline for applying will be 30 June 2021. Since you are due in March the very month, I think go for settled status as the case will be decided within days and without any paper hassle. Because if you send your paper application, you cannot go for settled status online application until they have decided the outcome of your paper application. It's completely at your desecration, also suppose you go for paper app, eventually you have to change it to settled status. Nothing to be worried about, but prepare your case either way, don't give them a chance to lengthen your case. All the best, let me know if I am of any help.

Happy New Year to you to all other users.

Kam

richiesuk · Post by **richiesuk** » Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:43 am

Dear all,

I am a dual Hungarian / British citizen (gained the British in 2012)
I have a a Peruvian wife since 12/2017

We applied for the settlement Spouse Visa in April 2018 and we did the wrong type of the IELTS exam, so the visa was refused (everything else were OK)

In the meantime I got a nice job offer in Malta (till April 2019 and possibly extended till end of 2019), so we moved over in June 2018.

Since then we live here,kinda started our new life, and planned to settle if everything is OK, both of us work and have Permanent resident cards (I have a local bank account too), so there was no intention at all to use the Surinder Singh route to go back to UK later.

After spending 7 months here we decided to move to NL or back to the UK, because we are not so happy here.

few months ago I read about the Lounes case and I am confused a bit.

what would be the best way to go back to UK?

we could try the Surinder Singh route, if they believe our story...

Would the Lounes case apply to us if I move back to UK?

many thanks in advance,

Best wishes,

Richard

Malik_01 · Post by **Malik_01** » Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:22 pm

kam999 wrote: ↑
Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:34 pm

Malik_01 wrote: ↑
Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:05 pm
Hi Kam,

Congratulations for your PR card. My question to you is that whether you needed to quote Lounes case with your application? If yes, then what material or publications did you use?

My PR is due in March this year and my wife already has both PR and BC. I am also thinking whether I should wait for Settled status or simply apply under the paper-based application basis.

Much appreciated,

A

kam999 wrote: ↑
Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:54 pm

Cupcake567 wrote: ↑
Wed Nov 21, 2018 12:26 pm
Good afernoon, I am resubmitting my previous post. Please, please advise.

Thank you.

Thank you Malik,

No,I did not add anything regarding Lounes, reason, i was couple of weeks due to complete my 5 years in GB the moment my spouse took the Oath of Allegiance. It was more like drawing HO's attention to myself and towards something they might would disregard. That being said, there were some users on this forum who added the ECJ ruling regarding Lounes with their applications. My advice to you, since HO embrace the ruling and EEA regulations have been amended, you don't really need to add anything, but if you want to be extra secure you can add ref of amended regulations, I think it's section 9A on the list.

Your application submission timings are critical, although HO assures that in case of No Deal, the EU Settlement Scheme will continue to be implemented, but you never know. Settled status scheme will be open fully by 30 March 2019, as per their website and the deadline for applying will be 30 June 2021. Since you are due in March the very month, I think go for settled status as the case will be decided within days and without any paper hassle. Because if you send your paper application, you cannot go for settled status online application until they have decided the outcome of your paper application. It's completely at your desecration, also suppose you go for paper app, eventually you have to change it to settled status. Nothing to be worried about, but prepare your case either way, don't give them a chance to lengthen your case. All the best, let me know if I am of any help.

Happy New Year to you to all other users.

Kam
[/quote]

Thank you Kam for your kind advice. I am happy to hear that everything went smooth in your case. I can understand the frustration to all those out there who are uncertain about their future certainty including those who are even British. Hopefully the Brexit will bring more opportunities. At least, we can be optimistic!

My application is due in the third week before the launch of the new system, but I beleive it would be a huge traffic on that day as being accessible to over a million EU citizens. Therefore, I would go for the paperwork. I have also read about few people here applied and got their PR very earlier than expected, as the HO is preparing for this new settle scheme and want to cut the paperwork and divert all their staff workload to its launch and possibly smooth transition.

I appreciate you shared the reference from the EEA regs, I can add that to the letter to HO.

I wish the new year would bring this uncertainty to end and whoever eligible applies for their documents get through this without any delays and frustration

Will let you guys know if there is an update after my submission.

Malik

richiesuk · Post by **richiesuk** » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:03 am

Hi,

Could anybody omment on this?

Thanks

richiesuk wrote: ↑
Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:43 am
Dear all,

I am a dual Hungarian / British citizen (gained the British in 2012)
I have a a Peruvian wife since 12/2017

We applied for the settlement Spouse Visa in April 2018 and we did the wrong type of the IELTS exam, so the visa was refused (everything else were OK)

In the meantime I got a nice job offer in Malta (till April 2019 and possibly extended till end of 2019), so we moved over in June 2018.

Since then we live here,kinda started our new life, and planned to settle if everything is OK, both of us work and have Permanent resident cards (I have a local bank account too), so there was no intention at all to use the Surinder Singh route to go back to UK later.

After spending 7 months here we decided to move to NL or back to the UK, because we are not so happy here.

few months ago I read about the Lounes case and I am confused a bit.

what would be the best way to go back to UK?

we could try the Surinder Singh route, if they believe our story...

Would the Lounes case apply to us if I move back to UK?

many thanks in advance,

Best wishes,

Richard

kam999 · Post by **kam999** » Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:05 am

[/quote]

Thank you Kam for your kind advice. I am happy to hear that everything went smooth in your case. I can understand the frustration to all those out there who are uncertain about their future certainty including those who are even British. Hopefully the Brexit will bring more opportunities. At least, we can be optimistic!

My application is due in the third week before the launch of the new system, but I beleive it would be a huge traffic on that day as being accessible to over a million EU citizens. Therefore, I would go for the paperwork. I have also read about few people here applied and got their PR very earlier than expected, as the HO is preparing for this new settle scheme and want to cut the paperwork and divert all their staff workload to its launch and possibly smooth transition.

I appreciate you shared the reference from the EEA regs, I can add that to the letter to HO.

I wish the new year would bring this uncertainty to end and whoever eligible applies for their documents get through this without any delays and frustration

Will let you guys know if there is an update after my submission.

Malik
[/quote]

You welcome mate, do let us know how did it go and the outcome of your app. All the best!

kam999 · Post by **kam999** » Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:38 am

richiesuk wrote: ↑
Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:03 am
Hi,

Could anybody omment on this?

Thanks

richiesuk wrote: ↑
Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:43 am
Dear all,

I am a dual Hungarian / British citizen (gained the British in 2012)
I have a a Peruvian wife since 12/2017

We applied for the settlement Spouse Visa in April 2018 and we did the wrong type of the IELTS exam, so the visa was refused (everything else were OK)

In the meantime I got a nice job offer in Malta (till April 2019 and possibly extended till end of 2019), so we moved over in June 2018.

Since then we live here,kinda started our new life, and planned to settle if everything is OK, both of us work and have Permanent resident cards (I have a local bank account too), so there was no intention at all to use the Surinder Singh route to go back to UK later.

After spending 7 months here we decided to move to NL or back to the UK, because we are not so happy here.

few months ago I read about the Lounes case and I am confused a bit.

what would be the best way to go back to UK?

we could try the Surinder Singh route, if they believe our story...

Would the Lounes case apply to us if I move back to UK?

many thanks in advance,

Best wishes,

Richard

Hi Richard,

before I say anything, please bear in mind that I am not a legal adviser and the below comment is only what I think, for further info and guidance wait for a guru to comment or seek legal advice.

Your case will have more chances via Surinder Singh route as you have been there more than 6 months and exercising treaty rights. if you wish to take Lounes route I think you have to come to UK prior to submitting your spouse's application i.e. you have to exercise treaty rights and then she will apply for family permit from Malta or anywhere she is, a bit lengthy but easy process, but that's just me. There might be other ways as I am not active anymore since I received my PRC. on the below link you will have a detailed guidance on Surinder Singh immigration route:
https://www.freemovement.org.uk/surinde ... ion-route/
FOr Lounes, read EEA regulations section 9A, I have a feeling it does not apply on your case as the Lounes application was submitted in UK and the applicant was in UK. I hope it helps.

All the best

Kam

richiesuk · Post by **richiesuk** » Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:18 am

Dear Kam!

many thanks for your input and thoughts!

looks like some lawyers are confused too as they say we cannot go thru' Surinder Sihgn route, we have to apply spouse visa because I am dual citizen.

'Dear Richard,
As you hold both British and EU nationality; it would not be possible for your Peruvian wife to apply for an EEA Family Permit (Surinder Sihgn).
You will need to apply for a Spousal visa on this basis. Please let me know if there is anything else that we can assist you with. '

Richard

kam999 · Post by **kam999** » Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:23 pm

richiesuk wrote: ↑
Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:18 am
Dear Kam!

many thanks for your input and thoughts!

looks like some lawyers are confused too as they say we cannot go thru' Surinder Sihgn route, we have to apply spouse visa because I am dual citizen.

'Dear Richard,
As you hold both British and EU nationality; it would not be possible for your Peruvian wife to apply for an EEA Family Permit (Surinder Sihgn).
You will need to apply for a Spousal visa on this basis. Please let me know if there is anything else that we can assist you with. '

Richard

Hi Richard,

I don't wanna bad-mouth the lawyer you mentioned, he probably have other things in mind or did not have full grasp on EEA law/relevant cases. To me, your case fits perfectly under Mr Singh's rulings. The link i sent you on previous post has all the stuff you need to know and to attach with your case.

On a separate note, please be advised that your last settlement case was refused and you did not appeal against it, instead you started your new life in Malta, probably an explained cover letter should be attached with your application. Don't delay it, and apply asap, we don't know with current situation which side of the table Brexit thingy gonna land, and i heard (i am not sure) if a deal has been secured, in the withdrawal agreement Surrender Singh is not covered, so get a rough idea how they will treat people in case of no deal. So you have to be quick with your case. All the best!

let me know if i can help further.

Kam

richiesuk · Post by **richiesuk** » Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:59 pm

Hi Kam,

Your input much appreciated,

Just one more thought:

Are you familiar with the Lounes case too?

As far as I know I could apply for the family permit for my wife if I was in UK at the moment, for free (as I am being dual citizen and I used my free movement rights before I got my British citizenship)

Hence my application for Surinder Sighn would rule out the following check point query:
(Would this be a strong point for us?)

-the purpose of the residence in the EEA host country was not as a means to circumvent any UK immigration law applying to non-EEA nationals (e.g. the Immigration Rules) [ie. avoiding the settlement visa fees]

Thanks

Richard

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