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Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Use this section for queries concerning applications on any of the EEA series of forms, and also for applications for EEA Family Permits.

Moderators: Casa, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, Zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe

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AlfaBeta123
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Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by AlfaBeta123 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:33 pm

So what happeneds to the people who already had a recent ceremony and are now currently dual national?
Surely the ruling will also apply to them? I'm extreemly worried at the moment! :cry:

UkEEAnational
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Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by UkEEAnational » Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:34 am

Morning

It’s 9:30 am in the European court and soon the verdict will be out

Back on this forum again after Vinny created a link of dual national rights back in April as I asked series of questions related to my husbands dual nationality

Glad to see people posted a lot of information

Hoping the judgement will come in favor of us

zapzap
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Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by zapzap » Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:41 am

Let’s see what happens :)

ninkas
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Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by ninkas » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:13 am

Good morning
Keeping my fingers and toes :~) 🤞
Eea +nonEea married couple

eeaprneu2
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Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by eeaprneu2 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:14 am

I can't wait for the decision to come in our favor. Very nervous. I am dying to pee but don't want to leave the computer searching for the decision to show somewhere.

pochaco
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Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by pochaco » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:34 am

https://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/doc ... 0121en.pdf

Here is the decision which is favorable to Lounes.

UkEEAnational
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Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by UkEEAnational » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:37 am

Here it’s what the Lounes barrister said on his Twitter account 1 min ago


Parm Saini
@PPSSaini
·
1m
Lounes C-165/16: Success! Grand Chamber gives landmark judgment in favour of protecting dual EU nationals' #freemovement rights & the effectiveness of those rights by giving derived residence to their family

pochaco
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Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by pochaco » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:38 am

Accordingly, the Court holds that a non-EU national in Mr Lounes’ situation is eligible for a
derived right of residence under Article 21(1) TFEU, on conditions which must not be
stricter than those provided for by the directive for the grant of such a right to a thirdcountry
national who is a family member of an EU citizen who has exercised his right of
freedom of movement by settling in a Member State other than the Member State of which he is
a national.


However, will Lounes be able to acquire Permanent Residence?

You can’t count time spent in the UK with a derivative right of residence towards applying for permanent residence in the UK.

https://www.gov.uk/derivative-right-residence

UkEEAnational
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Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by UkEEAnational » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:46 am

What do you mean by the derivative right of residence


pochaco wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:38 am
Accordingly, the Court holds that a non-EU national in Mr Lounes’ situation is eligible for a
derived right of residence under Article 21(1) TFEU, on conditions which must not be
stricter than those provided for by the directive for the grant of such a right to a thirdcountry
national who is a family member of an EU citizen who has exercised his right of
freedom of movement by settling in a Member State other than the Member State of which he is
a national.


However, will Lounes be able to acquire Permanent Residence?

You can’t count time spent in the UK with a derivative right of residence towards applying for permanent residence in the UK.

https://www.gov.uk/derivative-right-residence

pochaco
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Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by pochaco » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:53 am

Please note, I might be wrong as I am not a lawyer neither an expert. But at first glance the court says, that Lounes is entitled to a derived right of residence and as the holder of such a right he can live in the UK with his wife. However, the UK government website says that those with a derivative right of residence cannot count the years spent in the UK towards Permanent Residence, and without PR they will not be able to apply for British citizenship either.

Is my interpretation corect?

eeaprneu2
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Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by eeaprneu2 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:31 am

pochaco wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:53 am
Please note, I might be wrong as I am not a lawyer neither an expert. But at first glance the court says, that Lounes is entitled to a derived right of residence and as the holder of such a right he can live in the UK with his wife. However, the UK government website says that those with a derivative right of residence cannot count the years spent in the UK towards Permanent Residence, and without PR they will not be able to apply for British citizenship either.

Is my interpretation corect?
I don't think so. Non-EEA family members always 'derive' their rights from the directive and in this case they will 'derive' their rights from the TEFU, so I don't believe there is a difference.

ninkas
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Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by ninkas » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:39 am

[/quote]

I don't think so. Non-EEA family members always 'derive' their rights from the directive and in this case they will 'derive' their rights from the TEFU, so I don't believe there is a difference.
[/quote]

I agree with your interpretation,however would be great to see how Gurus will explain the outcome.
Eea +nonEea married couple

pochaco
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Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by pochaco » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:11 pm

The Guardian reports: EU citizens who become British can still have non-EU spouses live with them, court rules

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... them-court

“The court has held that the UK has been wrong to refuse to recognise free movement rights for all those EU citizens who have been naturalising as British following the Brexit referendum. After Brexit, though, all those rights will be lost unless an agreement is reached to retain them.” said the immigration barrister Colin Yeo, an expert on freedom of movement.

lappotto
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Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by lappotto » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:47 pm

I read it on the contrary, i.e. Lounes won't be able to obtain PR, but will be able to stay in the UK, live and work.

I am waiting for the full judgment to have a clearer view, but we might also need to wait the high court dealing with this point, if at all.

Obie
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Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by Obie » Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:16 pm

After thinking long and hard, I have come to the conclusion that brexit is a cancer. The only good brexit is a dead brexit.

DFDS.
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Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by DFDS. » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:29 pm

Looks like the judgement does cover just one section of family members, not Other family members. And in light of the on going Brexit negotiations on citizen's rights, it's obvious the ECJ could not contradict with what the EU negotiators are pushing for after Brexit, that current EU citizens exercising treaty rights in the UK, should continue with there rights to be joined by there non EU Family members.
Relax! and this too shall pass, secrets are like seasons, they change.

Angie77
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Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by Angie77 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:57 pm

Does anyone know if this benefits european dependents children of a dual uk/eu citizen?

vinny
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Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by vinny » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:00 am

This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

chaoscontrol
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Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by chaoscontrol » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:28 pm

Ok , thank you very much for the Link , so , we all now are aware about ECJ decision in `Lounes case . But I still can not find any info about when do these changes will take effect in the UK law ? any idea ? :(
sorry if I thing it wrong , but do the ECJ decision has to be `implemented` in to the UK law ? or Home Office worker (for example) will just always refer to EU law when making a decision of granting or rejecting a Permanent Residence Application ? And do he/she will be aware about ECJ decision in `Lounes` case ?
Thanks in advance .

vinny
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Re: Do dual EU-UK citizens have rights under EU law?

Post by vinny » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:58 pm

Currently,
Judicial precedent wrote:Decisions from the ECJ are binding on all courts in England & Wales.
This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children.

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