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Economically self-sufficient- How Much Money do i need?

Use this section for queries concerning applications on any of the EEA series of forms, and also for applications for EEA Family Permits.

Moderators: Casa, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, Zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, push

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michellee
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Economically self-sufficient- How Much Money do i need?

Post by michellee » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:43 pm

Hello,
Were planning on applying for the 5 year residence EEA card in the UK on teh basis of being Economically self-sufficient.

we were wondering how much money do we need?

i'm British, but my husband is not, we hae been denied a visa via the British route, so this is the next route as we live in an EEA member country.

but i do not think we can find a job in the 6 months that we are required, so this seams a better option. how mcuh are we required to proove? 20,00a year for 5 years? i hae no idea!! :(

also on a side note, does anyone know if you can travel in and out of the UK multiple times with a 6month EEA visa?

Jambo
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Post by Jambo » Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:24 pm

For EEA based applications, there isn't a figure the UKBA need to follow. You need to show that you will not be unreasonable burden on the state. The UKBA assess each case based on its own circumstances. If you want a figure to compare, then for other category visa applications, the HO asks for £800 per month.

The 6 month EEA Family Permit is multiple entry one.

nonspecifics
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SUFFICIENT

Post by nonspecifics » Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:47 am

I agree with the answer that Jambo gave.

To my interpretation what the guidelines do say is that the governments cannot insist on a minimum level of income which is above the pension or minimum allowance which is considered the minimum subsistence level in that country.

So, they limit the maximum amount that can be demanded by governments, but they don't set a minimum income.

Several tribunal judges seem to have twisted that though to say that that minimum amount must be the minimum income the person has to be considered sufficient.

The minimum incomes set by the government in the UK are the Income Support personal allowances:

single person 25 or over = £67.50 per week

a couple = £ 105.95 per week

and extra if you have children etc.

Those with savings above £16 000 are not entitled to income support.

If your income or savings is above those amounts then it can be argued you meet the sufficient funds criteria. However, those on Income Support are also eligible for Housing Benefit and Council Tax Benefit, so UKBA could argue those housing costs should also be taken into consideration. I don't know if they do that or not during the application process or only during appeals.

Housing costs are different for each applicant though. For example, some people have no housing costs or council tax to pay if they lodge with friends etc. Others could be renting an expensive property and so housing costs are the main living expense.

Thus, your sufficient resources can come from friends, family or other benefactors, as long as you have reliable access to them, they are legal and they are not from public funds - and you can prove it.

So as Jambo explained, each case must be taken on it's individual merits.

There is no fixed line where a person has sufficient resources or insufficient resources.

The clearest indicator UKBA would have that a person does not have sufficient resources is that the person regularly relies on public funds in order to live. Then he could be proved to be an unreasonable burden.

UKBA lists what are considered public funds.

Self-sufficient applicants should also have non-NHS sickness insurance for themselves and all family members - either private CSI or provided by another country and proved by EHIC cards or by other means.

nonspecifics
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Returning British citizen

Post by nonspecifics » Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:09 am

If you are a British citizen returning to the UK after exercising Treaty Rights abroad then you could be exempt from the requirement to have sufficient resources.

A British citizen does not have to be exercising Treaty Rights to have the right of abode in the UK - thus you do not have to prove exercising Treaty Rights as self-sufficient. As a returning British citizen your right of abode is automatic.

See the case law of Surinder Singh and Eind.

Please could others confirm or deny this is correct?

michellee
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Re: Returning British citizen

Post by michellee » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:39 pm

Thank you all for your replies,
nonspecifics wrote:If you are a British citizen returning to the UK after exercising Treaty Rights abroad then you could be exempt from the requirement to have sufficient resources.
I and my husband will be applying on this basis of self sufficiency- although because i am British does this mean that only He has to prove he is self sufficient? if this is the case then we only need to get him the comprehensive Health insurance and then support the application with our bank accounts as proof of self sufficiency? :?

I supposed that because we both wouldn't have a job in London during the time we're planning on travelling that we would both have to prove self sufficiency...

michellee
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Re: SUFFICIENT

Post by michellee » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:44 pm

nonspecifics wrote:I agree with the answer that Jambo gave.
Self-sufficient applicants should also have non-NHS sickness insurance for themselves and all family members - either private CSI or provided by another country and proved by EHIC cards or by other means.
We both have Health insurance from Switzerland where we both currently live- does this count? or if we will be relocating to the UK we need the UK non-NHS comprehensive health insurance before we apply for the 5 year residence permit?

nonspecifics
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EIND

Post by nonspecifics » Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:53 pm

SEE: http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

CHAPTER 9 APPEALS

3. Caselaw

3.11


see also : http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... highlight=

AND

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=80142


Collect proof you have been exercising treaty rights in Switzerland for the Surinder Singh part of this.

You ( the EU national) could also exercise Treaty Rights as a job hunter ( worker)when applying for the EEA2 Residence card if you register as a job seeker and not claim JSA from the UK and provide proof you are searching for work - job application replies etc.

But if you do want to do it on the basis of proving self-sufficiency:

Get EHIC cards from the Swiss health service for both of you as proof of CSI - that would be acceptable.

You have to prove exercising treaty rights ( self-sufficient) at the time of applying for the residence card EEA2, so you don't need to prove 5 years. Just prove that since you returned to the UK and at the date of application that you are self-sufficient.

e.g. The Ehic cards and bank statements.

It is if you apply for permanent residence for the non-EEA that you would have to supply proof of 5 continuous years of exercising Treaty rights as self-sufficient.
Last edited by nonspecifics on Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:25 pm, edited 11 times in total.

Jambo
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Re: EIND

Post by Jambo » Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:59 pm

nonspecifics wrote:I was hoping someone would advise you on the EIND case.
I believe you have a point here.

As a UK national, you (or your family member) are entitled to NHS treatment. CSI is not needed. And as pointed out here following the Eind case, I believe that you don't need to prove that you are exercising treaty rights in the UK when you return, just that you have done so in another member state before returning.

nonspecifics
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Exercising Treaty Rights

Post by nonspecifics » Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:47 pm

Are you exercising treaty rights in Switzerland as a worker?

michellee
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Re: Exercising Treaty Rights

Post by michellee » Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:57 am

nonspecifics wrote:Are you exercising treaty rights in Switzerland as a worker?
Yes i am.

nonspecifics
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Good

Post by nonspecifics » Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:25 pm

That's good, because UKBA seem to put a very strict interpretation on the Surinder Singh case law, in that applicants using this route must have been economically active as an employee or self-employed worker when exercising treaty rights abroad.

Eind was also economically active in the UK before returning to his home nation.

If you had been living as self-sufficient abroad then you may have had a long fight through the tribunals and courts to win your case.

keloid
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Re: Good

Post by keloid » Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:23 pm

nonspecifics wrote:That's good, because UKBA seem to put a very strict interpretation on the Surinder Singh case law, in that applicants using this route must have been economically active as an employee or self-employed worker when exercising treaty rights abroad.

Eind was also economically active in the UK before returning to his home nation.

If you had been living as self-sufficient abroad then you may have had a long fight through the tribunals and courts to win your case.
great advice - thanks for this one!

toabetterchange
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Location: UK

hi

Post by toabetterchange » Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:36 pm

Very interesting thread!

I m not sure if this applies to our case.

Can a EU partner(POLISH) and/or a Non-Eu partner apply for a Spanish Residence Card as self sufficient while the EU partner is working in another EU country(SCOTLAND) and the Non-EU partner wants to study in another EU country(SPAIN) ?

A frontier or cross border worker does not apply to our case because the EU partner is working and living in Scotland not Spain.

Do the EU partner have to live in the other EU country(SPAIN) for the application of the Spanish residence card?

If this is possible, how much is the funds a EU national needs to show to be considered as self sufficient in an EU country(SPAIN) for the residence card? or

Is the EU's actual UK employment considered as "funds" ?




I hope you can give me an idea

englishman9
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Post by englishman9 » Sun Oct 21, 2012 8:51 pm

As a UK national, if I claim child benefit or tax credits under self sufficiency, is this allowed or would this mean my partner would be refused PR?

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