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EEA2 transfer to new passport, expiring, EEA4

Use this section for queries concerning applications on any of the EEA series of forms, and also for applications for EEA Family Permits.

Moderators: Casa, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, Zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, push

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vegeta_2009
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EEA2 transfer to new passport, expiring, EEA4

Post by vegeta_2009 » Sun Dec 20, 2009 11:15 am

hi, once again i require your help.

i have EEA2 residency card.

my passport is expiring in July 2010, i'm going through divorce and hoping to apply for Retention of rights in March/april. since i am sure the application will take a long time, the passport will expire by the time the HO even considers my application. what do i do?

Option 1: renew my passport (should be able to do it in January) and then send the old and the new passport with Retention of Rights application

Option 2: renew my passport, transfer my EEA2 to the new passport (bear in mind that i will be in the process of divorce by that time) and then apply for Retention fo Rights

Option 3: dont renew passport and send it to HO with retention of rights in March/april.

?

datuchi
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Re: EEA2 transfer to new passport, expiring, EEA4

Post by datuchi » Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:00 pm

I presume, you have only been married OR held the Residence Card for less than 5 years? If so, you don't have to send any passports to the HO. Just send them a letter after the divorce, updating them of your situation. After that, make sure you yourself either work, or if not, have a sickness insurance for the remainder of your 5 year term.

Once the 5 years is nearing the end, send your OLD expired passport with the RC in it together with the NEW passport and your spouse's ID if possible to apply for a PR card.

As regards the "meantime", just get a new passport and carry them both. Many people get nervous and confused about having a valid card but expired passport:

1) If it were not possible, the HO wouldn't have issued the Card to you;
2) As HO issue Residence Cards on A4 papers if people have NO passports, it would make sense that the validity of the carrying document (such as a passport) doesn't invalidate the permit itself. Provided it's in the same name/date of birth!!!

Hope this helps.



vegeta_2009 wrote:hi, once again i require your help.

i have EEA2 residency card.

my passport is expiring in July 2010, i'm going through divorce and hoping to apply for Retention of rights in March/april. since i am sure the application will take a long time, the passport will expire by the time the HO even considers my application. what do i do?

Option 1: renew my passport (should be able to do it in January) and then send the old and the new passport with Retention of Rights application

Option 2: renew my passport, transfer my EEA2 to the new passport (bear in mind that i will be in the process of divorce by that time) and then apply for Retention fo Rights

Option 3: dont renew passport and send it to HO with retention of rights in March/april.

?

vegeta_2009
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Re: EEA2 transfer to new passport, expiring, EEA4

Post by vegeta_2009 » Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:52 pm

so you are saying i should wait untill the 5 years are up and then send application for PR? i initially thought that as soon as the divorce is final i just send in everything to the HO to Retain my rights (i dont what application i would use and what would they stamp it with-is there such a thing as Retained Rights stamp?).

i understand the logic behind the option you've given but wouldnt that be too risky leaving everything at the last minute, plus i doubt it very much that she will give me her id 2 years from now.

could you shed some light on that?

datuchi
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Re: EEA2 transfer to new passport, expiring, EEA4

Post by datuchi » Thu Dec 24, 2009 10:56 pm

There has been a thread about it on this forum somewhere, try to find it or ill do that when i get to my pc.

In brief, All that u get by retaining your right of residence is that your card will be valid even without ur EEA national by your side, which is a prerequisite while you r married.

Now, by "retaining" this right of resid u dont get a separate document or anyth like that. Many people have sent their passports upon divorce and all they got was another EEA family member cards. UKBA dont have vignettes for those people!

Another thing what u get when u r eligible to retain righ of resid is that u can continue working towards the 5 yrs required to apply for PR at the end of it. U will need to either work or be self-sufficient WITH private medical insurance.

Either way, u would need ur husband's ID whether u send your docs now or in 2yrs when it's time to move on.
The UKBA have ridiculously requested the ORIGINAL ID and evidence of the EEA national exercising treaty rights up to the decree absolute. Obviously many non-eea nationals cant provide them as the other side is uncooperative. There is nothing u can do really, but have solicitors involved.

If u can, do make CERTIFIED COPIES (solicitors sign them to confim) of your husband's ID and evidence of exercise of treaty rights- P60, payslips, (WRS certificate and cards may be required, copy if u can just in case).
With these at hand u can at least argue u r eligible!

Merry xmas

vegeta_2009 wrote:so you are saying i should wait untill the 5 years are up and then send application for PR? i initially thought that as soon as the divorce is final i just send in everything to the HO to Retain my rights (i dont what application i would use and what would they stamp it with-is there such a thing as Retained Rights stamp?).

i understand the logic behind the option you've given but wouldnt that be too risky leaving everything at the last minute, plus i doubt it very much that she will give me her id 2 years from now.

could you shed some light on that?

vegeta_2009
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Re: EEA2 transfer to new passport, expiring, EEA4

Post by vegeta_2009 » Fri Dec 25, 2009 9:38 am

datuchi wrote:

Either way, u would need ur husband's ID whether u send your docs now or in 2yrs when it's time to move on.
The UKBA have ridiculously requested the ORIGINAL ID and evidence of the EEA national exercising treaty rights up to the decree absolute.
thanks Datuchi, i dont think i'll be able to get hold of the ID in 2 years time, so i think i will just do it as soon as my Decree Absolute comes in.

in order for me to retain my rights, which application do i need to send? or is just a letter?

from your experience, do you think i should get a solicitor from now on to apply for Retaining rights? this sounds like a mindefield to me.

after all this all they will give you is just another Residency Card (assuming it will be valid for another 5 years?)

datuchi
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Re: EEA2 transfer to new passport, expiring, EEA4

Post by datuchi » Fri Dec 25, 2009 11:20 am

yes, they dont have a separate resid card for retention of rights. U dont really need a solicitor as at the moment u will not be getting anyth different from what u have. It's when it comes to applying for PR that u will need to show on what basis u r applying for PR.
Although better than nothing, apply again on EEA2 gorm for another resid card as member of EEA national's family.

Until decree absolute u r still legally married and could change ur minds in theory. The fact that u r physically sepaeated also has no impact on the application.
When u said u wanted to transfer ur card, dont get confused, but u will need to makeca new application even just to transfer. That's why u get a new passport and make a fresh application in EEA2 and when u divorce absolutely, u simply write a letter etc to HO notifying of change. Then, when 5 yrs elapsed from u being here, u apply for PR, that is when u may need a solicitor.
vegeta_2009 wrote:
datuchi wrote:

Either way, u would need ur husband's ID whether u send your docs now or in 2yrs when it's time to move on.
The UKBA have ridiculously requested the ORIGINAL ID and evidence of the EEA national exercising treaty rights up to the decree absolute.
thanks Datuchi, i dont think i'll be able to get hold of the ID in 2 years time, so i think i will just do it as soon as my Decree Absolute comes in.

in order for me to retain my rights, which application do i need to send? or is just a letter?

from your experience, do you think i should get a solicitor from now on to apply for Retaining rights? this sounds like a mindefield to me.

after all this all they will give you is just another Residency Card (assuming it will be valid for another 5 years?)

vegeta_2009
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Re: EEA2 transfer to new passport, expiring, EEA4

Post by vegeta_2009 » Fri Dec 25, 2009 11:35 am

datuchi wrote: Although better than nothing, apply again on EEA2 gorm for another resid card as member of EEA national's family.
so from my understanding this is whats gonna happen:
1-Get Decree Absolute
2-Apply for Retention of Rights (by sending a letter to the HO)
3-HO will hopefully reply back with another Residency Card valid for 5 years
4- when 5 years are up i apply for PR proving the 3 years of marriage and 2 years of me exercising treaty rights.

at what point do i need the EEA family member ID, when applying for retention of rights or 2 years later when applying for PR. bear in mind that the last option is absurd, what divorced spouse would give her ID to someone she divorced years ago?[/list]

datuchi
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Re: EEA2 transfer to new passport, expiring, EEA4

Post by datuchi » Fri Dec 25, 2009 1:19 pm

No, u got it wrong.

so from my understanding this is whats gonna happen:
1-Get Decree Absolute- Apply before or after, in both cases u will uae the same form and will need eea's id.

2-Apply for Retention of Rights (by sending a letter to the HO)- there is no such thing as "apply" for retention. This is automatic right and simply allows u to keep what u have remaining bedofore PR and legally be eligible for PR at the end, in ur own right.

3-HO will hopefully reply back with another Residency Card valid for 5 years- The ho are not meant to do a thing. U simply back up yourself when PR time comes. And u r meant to notify ho of any change in circumstances.

4- when 5 years are up i apply for PR proving the 3 years of marriage and 2 years of me exercising treaty rights. Yes, total of 5 yrs, not the 5 yrs issued, if at all, in new passport.

at what point do i need the EEA family member ID, when applying for retention of rights or 2 years later when applying for PR. bear in mind that the last option is absurd, what divorced spouse would give her ID to someone she divorced years ago?[/list][/quote]

datuchi
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Post by datuchi » Fri Dec 25, 2009 1:33 pm

Think of it this way. What do u need the confirmation of retention of rights for? so u can apply for PR later. Let's say they had a separate stamp for u, and u have 2 morr years od working/being self-sufficient etc. They stamp your passport with that stamp but all thst gives u is the right to apply for PR at the end. What if u stop worki g or in other way stop exercising rights?u will not be able to apply for PR at the end regardless o the fsct that u have that stamp in ur passport!
So, as long as u keep working/self-suffic+insurance, u r allowed to apply for PR at the end.

Ridiculously, ho jave requested eea's id when those who have retained their roghts applied for pr!

The only difference which u might succeed with if u send ur eea's id and your passport with the lettrr claiming that u divorced is that if they issue u with another card now, in 2yrs time when u apply for PR and they request proof that at the ime of divorce 2yrs ago ur eea exercisr his rights AND original id, u will be able to dtate thst it is superfluous as u had provided those details at the time of divorce and obtained another card, which is the proof that at the time you already satisfied the requirements.

So, when u divorce, send ur passport and eea id with the letter and decree absolute notifying them of the change. I they issue u wih a new eea2 card,
even though i is wrong, this would be proof for u to later when u apply for PR, that u legally satisfied the requirements for the retention.
I am sorry if i write confusingly, i am away from home and cannot type properly, typing from my phone

vegeta_2009
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Post by vegeta_2009 » Fri Dec 25, 2009 2:43 pm

datuchi wrote:Think of it this way. What do u need the confirmation of retention of rights for? so u can apply for PR later. Let's say they had a separate stamp for u, and u have 2 morr years od working/being self-sufficient etc. They stamp your passport with that stamp but all thst gives u is the right to apply for PR at the end. What if u stop worki g or in other way stop exercising rights?u will not be able to apply for PR at the end regardless o the fsct that u have that stamp in ur passport!
So, as long as u keep working/self-suffic+insurance, u r allowed to apply for PR at the end.

Ridiculously, ho jave requested eea's id when those who have retained their roghts applied for pr!

The only difference which u might succeed with if u send ur eea's id and your passport with the lettrr claiming that u divorced is that if they issue u with another card now, in 2yrs time when u apply for PR and they request proof that at the ime of divorce 2yrs ago ur eea exercisr his rights AND original id, u will be able to dtate thst it is superfluous as u had provided those details at the time of divorce and obtained another card, which is the proof that at the time you already satisfied the requirements.

So, when u divorce, send ur passport and eea id with the letter and decree absolute notifying them of the change. I they issue u wih a new eea2 card,
even though i is wrong, this would be proof for u to later when u apply for PR, that u legally satisfied the requirements for the retention.
I am sorry if i write confusingly, i am away from home and cannot type properly, typing from my phone
really helful Datuchi, i'll pm you, we keep in touch, if you need something let me know.

nanaaddo80
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retaining right of residence after divorce

Post by nanaaddo80 » Sat Dec 26, 2009 11:17 am

Hi dutchi,
I understand your logic but then the whole essence of applying for a retained right of residence, is for the non eea to be able to apply for either the RC or PR on his/her own merits without the eea. So then how is it possible for the Ho to request the excersing of treaty rights of the ex eea 2 years after divorce.where is the logic since i quote:REGULATIONS 15(1)(f) a person who:
(i)has resided in the UK in accordance with these regulations for a continous period of 5 years.(meaning, the non eea was married for at least 3years,cohabited in the UK for 1 year,continous excersise of treaty rights by non eea ater divorce)
(ii)was at the end of the marriage a family member who has retained the right of residence.

Now concerning the request of the eea passport i quote:
REGULATIONS 17(2)T he secretary of state(HO)must issue a residence card to a person who is not an eea national but who has retained the right of residence on application and production of
(a) a valid passport(non eea)
(b) proof that the applicant is such a family member who has retained the right of residence.(decree absolute to work out marriage years,utility bills,and continous excersice of treaty rights by non eea.
Correct me if my understanding of the above regulations are wrong.
Thanks

datuchi
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Re: retaining right of residence after divorce

Post by datuchi » Sun Dec 27, 2009 11:30 pm

I understand your logic but then the whole essence of applying for a retained right of residence, is for the non eea to be able to apply for either the RC or PR on his/her own merits without the eea. - I AGREE and that is what I told you.

So then how is it possible for the Ho to request the excersing of treaty rights of the ex eea 2 years after divorce.where is the logic since i quote:
REGULATIONS 15(1)(f) a person who:
(i)has resided in the UK in accordance with these regulations for a continous period of 5 years.(meaning, the non eea was married for at least 3years,cohabited in the UK for 1 year,continous excersise of treaty rights by non eea ater divorce)
(ii)was at the end of the marriage a family member who has retained the right of residence.

Now concerning the request of the eea passport i quote:
REGULATIONS 17(2)T he secretary of state(HO)must issue a residence card to a person who is not an eea national but who has retained the right of residence on application and production of
(a) a valid passport(non eea)- CORRECT
(b) proof that the applicant is such a family member who has retained the right of residence.(decree absolute to work out marriage years,utility bills,and continous excersice of treaty rights by non eea.)- CORRECT

Correct me if my understanding of the above regulations are wrong
-
It is correct, but you need Reg 18, as you are applying for PR, and Reg 17 applies to Issue of RC, which you already have. But the essence is the same. However, it is clearly WRONG for the Sec of State to issue these Regs and misinterpret the idea behind the EC Directive 2004/38.

Read through the links I have given you, may shed the light.

Article 13 of Directive 2004/38 on which the Regs are based states:

Article 13
Retention of the right of residence by family
members in the event of divorce, annulment
of marriage or termination of registered
partnership.

(2) Without prejudice to the second
subparagraph, divorce, annulment of
marriage or the termination of a registered
partnership referred to in point 2(b) of
Article 2 shall not entail the loss of the
right of residence of a Union citizen’s
family members who are not
nationals of a
Member State where:

(a) prior to the initiation of the divorce or
annulment proceedings or termination of
the registered partnership referred to in
point 2(b) of Article 2, the marriage or
registered partnership had lasted at least
three years, including one year in the host
Member State- you satisfy this

Before acquiring the right of permanent
residence, the right of residence of the
persons concerned shall remain subject To
o the requirement tat they- YOU

are able to show
that they are workers or self- employed
persons or that they have sufficient
resources for themselves and their family
members (if you had like kids, or other relatives dependent on you) not to become a burden on the
social assistance system of the host
Member State during their period residence
and have comprehensive sickness
insurance cover in the host Member State,
or that they are members of the family,
already constituted in the host Member
State, of a person satisfying these
requirements. “Sufficient resourcesâ€

datuchi
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Post by datuchi » Sun Dec 27, 2009 11:37 pm

Also, Regulation 10(5) and (6) of the 2006 Regulations are also satisfied by you?

Regulation 10
(5) A person satisfies the conditions in this paragraph if—
(a) he ceased to be a family member of a qualified person on the termination of the marriage- TICK

(b) he was residing in the United Kingdom in accordance with these Regulations at the date
of the termination;- TICK
(c) he satisfies the condition in paragraph (6)- SEE BELOW for this; and

(d)(i) prior to the initiation of the proceedings for the termination of the marriage had lasted for at least three years
and the parties to the marriage had resided in the United
Kingdom for at least one year during its duration- TICK;

(6) The condition in this paragraph is that the person—
(a) is not an EEA national but would, if he were an EEA national, be a worker, a selfemployed- TICK
person or a self-sufficient person under regulation 6- TICK;

datuchi
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Post by datuchi » Sun Dec 27, 2009 11:38 pm


datuchi
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Post by datuchi » Sun Dec 27, 2009 11:51 pm

See the caseworker instructions for PR! These are what the HO will look at when considering your app.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

In particular, see paragraph 6.2

Completion of 5 years residency after having retained the right of residence
The following documents must be supplied by a non-EEA national family member who has retained the right of residence and who is applying for a Permanent Residence Card under regulation 15(1)(f) having completed 5 years residency:
•
A valid passport
•
Documentation confirming that s/he has completed 5 years residency in accordance with the 2006 Regulations as the family member of an EEA national exercising Treaty rights / as a person who has retained the right of residence.- This is what they are ILLEGALLY asking, not that you retained the right, but proof that your EEA national exercised Treaty Rights. Proof of 5 years' entitlement should be MIXED if anything.

All you need to show, that you were married for 3 years, and LIVED for at least 1 year in the UK. So, technically, all you need to show is that at the time of divorce your EEA exercised Treaty Rights, not the WHOLE period even! And from then on, YOU worked etc.

vegeta_2009
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Post by vegeta_2009 » Mon Dec 28, 2009 12:00 am

i think this thread should be put as a Sticky, mine of information, thank you guys

nanaaddo80
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Retained Right of Residence

Post by nanaaddo80 » Mon Dec 28, 2009 3:43 pm

Hi Datuchi,
Thanks for the clarification. I,ll be posting my doc's on 04/01/2010.
This is what I'll do'
1.write a notification of divorce letter and asking for confirmation of retained right of residence under Regulations 10(5).I'll attach the ff evidence:
2.Utility Bilss from December 2004 - december 2009
3.Decree Absolute
4.My Passport
5.2 Passport Photographs of myself
6.P60s and payslips until december 2009 for myself
7.P60s and wage slips of my ex until dec 2009
8.Bank statements showing funds from both
9.Mortgage statements from when we jointly bought a property
until december 2009
Please lt me know if my approach is cool since i neither want to use the eea4 or eea2 which is so misleading.
Thanks for your time

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