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EEA4 permenant residence... and immigration officer

Use this section for queries concerning applications on any of the EEA series of forms, and also for applications for EEA Family Permits.

Moderators: Casa, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, Zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, push

Jambo
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Post by Jambo » Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:35 pm

pinkpanter wrote:I mean they put entry stamp on my passport. I thought it should not be but, I realise that if you are travelling from non EU country then it is normal to stamp on your passport by IO (May be I am wrong).
Did they ever stamped your wife's EEA passport?! With RC/PR Confirmation, you should not be treated differently.

You should have insisted on using the EU line and save you the hour wait. Was it the IO at the desk who actually told you to move to the other queue or was it someone in charge of the queue? Did you show them you have PR Confirmation in the passport?

Directive/2004/38/EC
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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:44 pm

They do have a right to generally ask questions to make sure that you are the person named in the passport. So asking for the details of your past status is one way of validating that you are that person so named.

Plus it makes the job less boring than wordlessly looking at your passport and handing it back to you!

thsths
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Post by thsths » Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:07 am

Jambo wrote:You should have insisted on using the EU line and save you the hour wait. Was it the IO at the desk who actually told you to move to the other queue or was it someone in charge of the queue?
We had a chat with the officer last time, and he said we can go to the EU line if we are together as a family. If the non-EU member arrives alone, he/she may have to through the non-EU line, although he admitted that the rules are a bit complicated. He sounded like someone who has done this job for a while, so this may be the official position.

jumpingzombie
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Post by jumpingzombie » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:24 am

We had a chat with the officer last time, and he said we can go to the EU line if we are together as a family. If the non-EU member arrives alone, he/she may have to through the non-EU line, although he admitted that the rules are a bit complicated. He sounded like someone who has done this job for a while, so this may be the official position.
I'm a non-EEA citizen/no visa national, holding the residence card(EEA2) as a family member of an EEA national.
As a quote above, I go to the non-EU line when I travel by myself, but to the EU line when I'm with my husband, not to get bothered.

When I got back from one of the EEA countries to the Stansted airport by myself this April, an immigration officer asked me exactly the same question as the OP got("How did you get it?"). I was a bit surprised by an unexpected question for a moment, but answered as "because of a marriage with an EEA national living in this country" immediately, then end of conversation. I didn't get any stamps on my passport.

I traveled to outside of the EEA countries by myself last month. When I arrived at the Heathrow airport, an immigration officer asked me where my husband was :roll: I answered about it without any problems, but felt the officer tried to check if our marriage was genuine. Eventually, the officer said "welcome back", giving a stamp on my passport this time.

It doesn't bother me whether I get a stamp or not honestly, but I wonder if there're any points to ask us(resident card holders) such questions, even though the UKBA has issued these permissions :roll:

Directive/2004/38/EC
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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:30 am

The RC is not a permission (hence it is not called a Residence Permit). You have the right to stay simply because of the ongoing family relationship to the EU citizen.

pinkpanter
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Post by pinkpanter » Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:35 pm

Jambo wrote:
Jambo wrote:Did they ever stamped your wife's EEA passport?! With RC/PR Confirmation, you should not be treated differently.

You should have insisted on using the EU line and save you the hour wait. Was it the IO at the desk who actually told you to move to the other queue or was it someone in charge of the queue? Did you show them you have PR Confirmation in the passport?
When I first joined the UK/EU line there were only four people on the line so, we joined it. I and my wife went together to the IO desk but she (IO) told me to go to international line despite she saw my PR sticker. I was so tired from the travelling, so without arguing I went to the international line. My wife also objected this to IO why my husband needed to go to that line and last time when we came back, we used EU line and nobody told him to go that line but, she said because your husband doesn't have EU passport.

I checked my wife's passport and I can only see dubai airport stamp and nothing else. Actually it doesn't bother me whether they stamped my passport or not, but interviewing me regarding my wife and PR is nonsense.

pinkpanter
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Post by pinkpanter » Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:52 pm

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:They do have a right to generally ask questions to make sure that you are the person named in the passport. So asking for the details of your past status is one way of validating that you are that person so named.

Plus it makes the job less boring than wordlessly looking at your passport and handing it back to you!
They do have a right to ask questions. But asking question about 'how you met with your wife etc etc doesn't provide them sufficient evidence that I am the person named on the passport.

Directive/2004/38/EC
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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:41 pm

pinkpanter wrote:I checked my wife's passport and I can only see dubai airport stamp and nothing else. Actually it doesn't bother me whether they stamped my passport or not, but interviewing me regarding my wife and PR is nonsense.
If you are not too tired from travelling, turn the conversation around and see how much they know about EU law. You can sometimes have great conversations with border guards. I have had that twice!

jotter
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Post by jotter » Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:53 pm

pinkpanter wrote:
EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:"I have this card because I have lived in the UK in accordance with the conditions as laid down by law"

End of conversation.
The question itself is very stupid and I wasn't expecting. He should know that the Home office issued me PR after satisfied with my documents and this is nonsense to asking me question about my private life once it is written on my PR sticker 'Permenant Residence and no restriction to the holder etc etc'.

It was alreday enough for me 6 hours trevelling plus more than an hour on the immigration queue....and then this kind of questions
As fysicus said, make sure you submit a formal complaint. Since the vast majority of IOs appear to be familiar with how this works, the best way forward will be to complain about individual exceptions where we find them. The UKBA should at least reprimand the IO concerned and it will save others some hassle for the future.

pinkpanter
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Post by pinkpanter » Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:33 am

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:
pinkpanter wrote:I checked my wife's passport and I can only see dubai airport stamp and nothing else. Actually it doesn't bother me whether they stamped my passport or not, but interviewing me regarding my wife and PR is nonsense.
If you are not too tired from travelling, turn the conversation around and see how much they know about EU law. You can sometimes have great conversations with border guards. I have had that twice!
I would love to have great conversations with border guards. But, not regarding my family life, spouse, visa status etc etc. To be honest he was looking at this PR as he never had seen this before. When his supervisor called and she saw my PR she was agreed with my visa but, clearly told me that IO can ask any question.

As I said before once it has written on my passport "Permanent Resedence and no restriction to the holder of the card" then there is no point to re-investigate and waisting time and energy...

pinkpanter
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Post by pinkpanter » Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:55 am

Jambo wrote:
he asked me 'how I got this EEA 4 permanent residence'
Answer: I applied for it.
Good Answere!!!

Hope I would remember... :D

andrej
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Post by andrej » Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:29 pm

pinkpanter wrote:
Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:
pinkpanter wrote:I didn't fill landing card but, they defaced stamp on my passport.
What do you mean?
I mean they put entry stamp on my passport. I thought it should not be but, I realise that if you are travelling from non EU country then it is normal to stamp on your passport by IO (May be I am wrong).
I do understand that passports of non-EEA samily members holding RC and PR are not to be stamped upon entry in to UK but realistically in more than 6 years my passport was stamped every time but once. That one time the IO looked like a man of experience and no-nonsense and it was in EEA/EU/UK line.

What I can say now is that I am grateful for all those stamps because they have helped me pin point and calculate my absences from the UK, exact dates when filling up the the EEA4&AN forms. This also means that I need only use my passports (expired and new) to prove my 5 year residence and not bother about letters from the employer, P60s and all the other jazz during naturalisation. I know it sometimes hurts to be treated like a second class citizen - even when holding PR, but it is all worth it in a bigger picture.

Mostly I went through "All Others", not because I was told to, but because the line was always shorter (in my experiences) and even my EEA spouse went with me. No one ever stopped her.

As for landing cards, I now do them out of sheer pleasure since being issued with PR. I love where they ask about your "duration of stay in the UK", I print "PERMANENT" in big, bold letters. This usually takes the IO by surprise before they check the passport. They can ask me whatever they want. I am never rude or impatient.

pinkpanter
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Post by pinkpanter » Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:14 am

andrej wrote:
pinkpanter wrote:
Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:
pinkpanter wrote:I didn't fill landing card but, they defaced stamp on my passport.
What do you mean?
I mean they put entry stamp on my passport. I thought it should not be but, I realise that if you are travelling from non EU country then it is normal to stamp on your passport by IO (May be I am wrong).
I do understand that passports of non-EEA samily members holding RC and PR are not to be stamped upon entry in to UK but realistically in more than 6 years my passport was stamped every time but once. That one time the IO looked like a man of experience and no-nonsense and it was in EEA/EU/UK line.

What I can say now is that I am grateful for all those stamps because they have helped me pin point and calculate my absences from the UK, exact dates when filling up the the EEA4&AN forms. This also means that I need only use my passports (expired and new) to prove my 5 year residence and not bother about letters from the employer, P60s and all the other jazz during naturalisation. I know it sometimes hurts to be treated like a second class citizen - even when holding PR, but it is all worth it in a bigger picture.

Mostly I went through "All Others", not because I was told to, but because the line was always shorter (in my experiences) and even my EEA spouse went with me. No one ever stopped her.

As for landing cards, I now do them out of sheer pleasure since being issued with PR. I love where they ask about your "duration of stay in the UK", I print "PERMANENT" in big, bold letters. This usually takes the IO by surprise before they check the passport. They can ask me whatever they want. I am never rude or impatient.
Andrej, Please read my full thread to understand the case. I have never had any problem with stamps on my passport. I have been travelling twice or sometime more every year abroad due to my job but, never care about stamps. It doesn't bother me as well.

In the past I have never been stopped for asking me these kind of irrelevant questions. Sometime I also went through UK Line and or; other line (depand on the queue) and IO never ask me any irrelevant question. IO used to just see my RC and usually ask me only one question 'Are you travelling with your EEA wife and where is she??' and thats it. Nothing else.

Providing landing cards, I don't have any problem as well to fill them. The only thing bother me that 'Once you have obtained PR, IO should respect what is written on it ie. 'Permanent Resedence.. No restriction to the holder's activities'.

With due respect, I have never been rude with IO or boarder officer. Even when the IO asked me to go to Other line.

andrej
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Post by andrej » Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:44 am

pinkpanter wrote:
Andrej, Please read my full thread to understand the case. I have never had any problem with stamps on my passport. I have been travelling twice or sometime more every year abroad due to my job but, never care about stamps. It doesn't bother me as well.

In the past I have never been stopped for asking me these kind of irrelevant questions. Sometime I also went through UK Line and or; other line (depand on the queue) and IO never ask me any irrelevant question. IO used to just see my RC and usually ask me only one question 'Are you travelling with your EEA wife and where is she??' and thats it. Nothing else.

Providing landing cards, I don't have any problem as well to fill them. The only thing bother me that 'Once you have obtained PR, IO should respect what is written on it ie. 'Permanent Resedence.. No restriction to the holder's activities'.

With due respect, I have never been rude with IO or boarder officer. Even when the IO asked me to go to Other line.
Don't worry budy, once in a while you will get someone who is having a bad day at work or who is badly trained or just trying to play tough. While I was on the RC (more of a stamp really - not even a sticker) and travelling alone I used to get bombarded with loads of questions about my spouse, their location, work and what I was doing. Once the IO asked me to describe the town I was styding in, saying that he knows that town well???!!!

I have not had any problems since aquiring PR so I know where you're coming from. It seems pointless them asking you all that stuff when your document states "PERMANENT RESIDENCE" and "NO RESTRICTIONS". I've heard stories of naturilised citizens whose place of birth on UK passport indicates outside of UK being asked questions like: "How did you get this passport?"... so I guess it never really stops. How much of it is just the IOs doing their jobs by the book and how much is power trips will always remain a mystery. :D

pinkpanter
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Post by pinkpanter » Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:09 am

andrej wrote:
pinkpanter wrote:
Andrej, Please read my full thread to understand the case. I have never had any problem with stamps on my passport. I have been travelling twice or sometime more every year abroad due to my job but, never care about stamps. It doesn't bother me as well.

In the past I have never been stopped for asking me these kind of irrelevant questions. Sometime I also went through UK Line and or; other line (depand on the queue) and IO never ask me any irrelevant question. IO used to just see my RC and usually ask me only one question 'Are you travelling with your EEA wife and where is she??' and thats it. Nothing else.

Providing landing cards, I don't have any problem as well to fill them. The only thing bother me that 'Once you have obtained PR, IO should respect what is written on it ie. 'Permanent Resedence.. No restriction to the holder's activities'.

With due respect, I have never been rude with IO or boarder officer. Even when the IO asked me to go to Other line.
Don't worry budy, once in a while you will get someone who is having a bad day at work or who is badly trained or just trying to play tough. While I was on the RC (more of a stamp really - not even a sticker) and travelling alone I used to get bombarded with loads of questions about my spouse, their location, work and what I was doing. Once the IO asked me to describe the town I was styding in, saying that he knows that town well???!!!

I have not had any problems since aquiring PR so I know where you're coming from. It seems pointless them asking you all that stuff when your document states "PERMANENT RESIDENCE" and "NO RESTRICTIONS". I've heard stories of naturilised citizens whose place of birth on UK passport indicates outside of UK being asked questions like: "How did you get this passport?"... so I guess it never really stops. How much of it is just the IOs doing their jobs by the book and how much is power trips will always remain a mystery. :D
Thanks Andrej!!

I got very useful advice for my future travelling!!!

Many thanks for everyone!

mcclane
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UK/EU Line

Post by mcclane » Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:43 am

I have arrived to Luton airport and IO asked me that where is my wife? She was on EU/UK line and I was on All other and I told that she is on EU side and she let me go without stamp.

On stansted airport it was 4am and IO checked my previous expired Residence permit and stamped it which was very strange did not even look my current residence card.

I did not know whether we can go to EU/UK line or All others line at the airports!!! But only thing I know if you r travelling together with your spouse you should be together at the desk!!!

Directive/2004/38/EC
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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:38 pm

You can go through either line together. I would recommend you pick the shortest line!

Hubba
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Re: UK/EU Line

Post by Hubba » Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:46 pm

mcclane wrote:I have arrived to Luton airport and IO asked me that where is my wife? She was on EU/UK line and I was on All other and I told that she is on EU side and she let me go without stamp.
Last time I've travelled alone, when arriving via Heathrow, the IO also asked me where was my wife. I simply answered "She's home!". We had a good laugh and he welcomed me back.

Once they've asked my wife's nationality and why I was travelling alone. This was back in 2009.

Most annoying encounter I've had with an IO was at Calais. I was travelling with my wife, but the IO still asked me about my employment, where I lived, etc. It ended up stamping my passport as well. She clearly had no idea what she was doing, in one of the major routes between the UK and the rest of Europe. By the end of it, me and my wife were the last ones to board the bus, which pissed me off, having gone through the trouble of actually getting a confirmation of my right and still suffer such harassment.

After that I've passed through Calais again another couple of times, with no issues at all, and more than 10 times through airports, again with no issues.

My experience during these four and 1/2 years it that it depends of the IO. They are getting better trained (the incident above at Calais was about 2 years ago, and the last one). Although annoying, you just need to cooperate and show good will. They're trying to do their job the best way they can, even if they sometimes are talking out of their arses.

So, what can I say. Keep your cool and be friendly. I don't let them deface my passport anymore and actually explain they have no reason to (happened last time I've arrived via Luton).

mcclane
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Post by mcclane » Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:52 pm

Exactly true. depends on how IO is experienced or trained. And another thing I remembered is when we together went to All other Passports line IO showed me Landing card while I was approaching to the desk and I said I don't need fill it and he was like pist off saying uhh you dont need to fill it! then of course let me out without questions or stamp as we were together but never been in EU/UK line at the airport. so it happens and depends on whether IO trained well or not!

Hubba
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Post by Hubba » Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:44 pm

mcclane wrote:Exactly true. depends on how IO is experienced or trained. And another thing I remembered is when we together went to All other Passports line IO showed me Landing card while I was approaching to the desk and I said I don't need fill it and he was like pist off saying uhh you dont need to fill it! then of course let me out without questions or stamp as we were together but never been in EU/UK line at the airport. so it happens and depends on whether IO trained well or not!
Only time I was asked about the landing card was on the Calais incident described above. I don't even bother filling it out anymore.

One thing that I've noticed that makes my life much easier is how you approach the IO. Always, and I mean always, before even handling them your passport, have it opened on your Residence Card and say it out loud what you're presenting to them ("Here's my passport. I've taken the liberty of leaving it opened on my Residence Card already"). Some IOs start the questions even before checking your passport.

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