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EEA4 Rejected

Use this section for queries concerning applications on any of the EEA series of forms, and also for applications for EEA Family Permits.

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Richir2909
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Post by Richir2909 » Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:27 pm

I have got a similar letter asking for proof of medical insurance although we are "self sufficient" and I have provided documentation for myself and my partner who is the EEA national.

Has anyone been successful lately?

Iira
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Post by Iira » Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:30 pm

Richir2909 wrote:I have got a similar letter asking for proof of medical insurance although we are "self sufficient" and I have provided documentation for myself and my partner who is the EEA national.

Has anyone been successful lately?
I have just received my COA today. It took 15 days since we sent the papers for the 2nd time. (I was the one who started this thread, by the way...)

Basically, it means we have successfully sent proof of "comprehensive sickness insurance".

Richir2909
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Post by Richir2909 » Sat Dec 12, 2009 7:28 pm

Iira wrote:
Richir2909 wrote:I have got a similar letter asking for proof of medical insurance although we are "self sufficient" and I have provided documentation for myself and my partner who is the EEA national.

Has anyone been successful lately?
I have just received my COA today. It took 15 days since we sent the papers for the 2nd time. (I was the one who started this thread, by the way...)

Basically, it means we have successfully sent proof of "comprehensive sickness insurance".
I am not brilliant with forums i.e posting, quoting etc, but thanks Iira for your last post. I do realise you started the thread which caught my eye initially. However, few questions.

When you initially applied, did you not get a COA?
Also did you get a time frame within which to send the insurance details?
And did you find one with "emergency cover"

In my case, I applied in March 2009 and an acknowledgement letter in May 2009 but only got the letter requesting more information in the first week of December, but got to send them details within 21 days.

I have been shopping around but I am experiencing the same problems you outlined in your earlier posts.

Iira
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Post by Iira » Sat Dec 12, 2009 7:41 pm

Richir2909 wrote:When you initially applied, did you not get a COA?
Also did you get a time frame within which to send the insurance details?
And did you find one with "emergency cover"

In my case, I applied in March 2009 and an acknowledgement letter in May 2009 but only got the letter requesting more information in the first week of December, but got to send them details within 21 days.

I have been shopping around but I am experiencing the same problems you outlined in your earlier posts.
I didn't get a COA the first time. Couple of months ago HO changed the way of dealing with applications and now, if there is something missing for them, they just return everything to you with a letter mentioning what they need. There is no deadline because the application is rejected.

I rang pretty much every insurance company and they explained that nobody covers emergencies because there are no private hospitals with A&E. Not sure if that's true but, several companies said the same.
At this point, the one I've chosen was accepted. Although you never know...I could get a letter later on saying that they don't like it!

Regards.

Richir2909
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Post by Richir2909 » Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:59 pm

Thanks Iira
Have you got insurance covering the past few years however?

Iira
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Post by Iira » Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:17 pm

Richir2909 wrote:Thanks Iira
Have you got insurance covering the past few years however?
No, I didn't know it was necessary until they rejected the application. And I still don't know if that's going to be a problem.

I haven't heard yet if other people in the same situation have been successful with their applications.

datuchi
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Post by datuchi » Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:29 pm

Richir2909 wrote:Thanks Iira
Have you got insurance covering the past few years however?
That's the one, has anyone been successful on the basis of missing documents like insurance certificate covering the PAST!!! years. This is one of the requirements of both the Directive 2004/38 AND the Immigration (EEA) Regulations 2006. If you don't have one you clearly fall foul of the strict interpretation of the rules. But, obviously if the case had gone to court, the court would reiterate the principle of proportionality.

I am in the same situation, I am an EEA national who worked:
June/2004- Jan/2008 and
Oct/2008- Present

But, between Jan/2008 and Oct/2008, around 10 months, I went travelling to India for 6 months and upon my return, sought employment and lived in the UK as usual.

I will not go into detail about the worker route, but the self-sufficiency is the problem.
I do not have the back dated certif. of insurance! but I never claimed anyth. Don't know what I'm going to do. But, I called them now and will see what they could advise me.


N.B. The guy told me that if I weren't working now and obtained the Private Health NOW, it would be OK for the PAST period!!!
Everyone, this is good news.

But in my case, I am working now so don't require one? the guy was puzzled and put me on hold, and as usual it got cut off in 5 min. after that.


N.B.
Another development, I called again and was told what I feared I would be. A person loses his/her entitlement if they don't meet the requirements of the law. Basically, if you can't provide one covering the past period, you are not eligible and need to start the process all over again.
The thing is, any caseworker will tell you this as they do not have the authority to use discretion, they need to tick boxes per each requirement, if they don't tick the box, you don't get the paper. It is quite another thing to try and persuade someone with authority that the whole idea behind requiring people to have private insurance is not to have them as a burden to society! If you are not a burden, the aim is achieved. So, the sanctions must be PROPORTIONATE! On the face of it, it would seem disproportionate to allow ME for instance to lose this hard-earned entitlement after having worked for 3 years, only because in the period of unemployment/self-sufficiency I didn't have the sickness insurance. But I never claimed anything anyway! So, was no burden to the society.

If I were putting my argument forward in the ECJ, it could potentially work, but unfortunately there are SO MANY!!! obstacles to get that far, and so many years' wait, that, by the time you get there you would have earned another 5 years' entitlement.

Anyway, it's not the court, but an administrative body which you deal with and it's a shame that many people get caught out like that unwary.

My advice is- if you are still on a self-sufficiency route, take out private health insurance (AXA etc would suffice) and apply. If you are lucky, you will get a caseworker who will ignore the fact (which he SHOULDN'T really) that you didn't have one in the past, so your exercise of Treaty Rights technically was interrupted.
Other than that, it will require another court hearing regarding THIS PARTICULAR scenario, where a person is DISPROPORTIONATELY being sanctioned for not having a paperwork for the past, which is bureaucratic only.

If you're still reading, I hope you got the gist of the story :)

pisipatu
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Post by pisipatu » Fri Jan 01, 2010 2:09 pm

I called UKBA a few days ago to clarify what needs to be covered by comprehensive insurance and was told that accidence and emergencies need to be covered.
But generally, the guys didn't know themselves what they want. I called twice. First time I asked that if my husband (non-EU) is still working, does he need a CSI as well. The guy from UKBA said that NO, only I need.
Then I called second time and another guy said that we both need. It doesn't matter that my husband is working and paying taxes.
Finally, I asked what needs to be covered and he just told me: I AM NOT AN EXPERT, CALL TO INSURANCE COMPANY AND ASK FULLY COMPREHENSIVE COVER!...when i said that I have already called to a number of companies and no-one covers A&E or even GP, he told be that I have to be covered and this is MY PROBLEM to find out this kind of insurance.

I also spoke to one insurance company and the guy there told me that they have had people before who needed this insurance for UKBA, but most of cases 'comprehensive insurance' in their terminology (in/patient and outpatient cover) had't worked with UKBA. So the insurance company didn't know as well what UKBA wants.

Finally I found that there are some insurance companies abroad who provide international health insurance and these packages cover A&E and GP, but not long term chronic issues.

BLK235
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Post by BLK235 » Fri Jan 01, 2010 4:18 pm

Have a look at this thread mentioning generalandmedical insurance provider

Please also see UK EU Appeal caselaw that states that as long as an applicant has sickness insurance even if it doesn' cover emergency medical treatment it's fine. Just to be clear this caselaw doesn't dispute requirement for sickness insurance it only says it's ok if insurance doesn't cover emergency treatment.
3.4 Sickness Insurance
Persons must not become a burden on the public finances of the host Member State. In paragraph 93 of Baumbast, the ECJ found that it was disproportionate for a lack of sickness insurance that covered emergency medical treatment within the UK to be a reason for refusing to grant a right of residence on this basis. Furthermore, the law in regard to the NHS prevents us from restricting people from obtaining medical treatment after they have been here for more than 12 months.

jude
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Hope ie understood

Post by jude » Sun Jan 03, 2010 1:24 am

I do not understand why you guys are stressing your self . If you guys want your non EEA husband or wife to stay in the country just go and get the medical insurance. I applied in 2004 with my EEA wife and our application was refused due to the fact that my EEA wife was not working , we reapplied used universal provence(wrong spelling) to show that we are not going to use the NHS and within months I have my stay. Please no need to backdate it , just reapply as a new application with the medical insurance and forget about that emergency cover you guys are talking. you guys may be confusing, they is nothing like that. Apply for full medical insurance for both you and your non EEA husband/wife. It cost around 200-300 a months but it help the non eea.
Last edited by jude on Sun Jan 03, 2010 1:35 am, edited 2 times in total.

datuchi
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Re: Hope ie understood

Post by datuchi » Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:59 pm

...it is more complicated than your situation in 2004, read the thread again so you can follow what is being discussed. We're not talking about applying for the 1st time, in which case it wouldn't be a problem, but we want to have the time when you were MEANT to have insurance to count towards the 5 years, and not to have a break in continuity.


jude wrote:I do not understand why you guys are stressing your self . If you guys want your non EEA husband or wife to stay in the country just go and get the medical insurance. I applied in 2004 with my EEA wife and our application was refused due to the fact that my EEA wife was not working , we reapplied used universal provence(wrong spelling) to show that we are not going to use the NHS and within months I have my stay. Please no need to backdate it , just reapply as a new application with the medical insurance and forget about that emergency cover you guys are talking. you guys may be confusing, they is nothing like that. Apply for full medical insurance for both you and your non EEA husband/wife. It cost around 200-300 a months but it help the non eea.
None of the advice/opinion is expressed with the view of assuming responsibility as to its accuracy. Anyone intending to rely on any advice/opinion should seek independent legal advice before acting upon it.

Iira
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Re: Hope ie understood

Post by Iira » Sun Jan 03, 2010 6:23 pm

jude wrote:I do not understand why you guys are stressing your self . If you guys want your non EEA husband or wife to stay in the country just go and get the medical insurance. I applied in 2004 with my EEA wife and our application was refused due to the fact that my EEA wife was not working , we reapplied used universal provence(wrong spelling) to show that we are not going to use the NHS and within months I have my stay. Please no need to backdate it , just reapply as a new application with the medical insurance and forget about that emergency cover you guys are talking. you guys may be confusing, they is nothing like that. Apply for full medical insurance for both you and your non EEA husband/wife. It cost around 200-300 a months but it help the non eea.
Dear "jude",
if my maths go well it seems you have applied around 6 years ago. During those years, quite a few things have changed.

The reason people is worried is we are receiving a letter from the HO stating that the private medical insurance should include emergencies (I have received one myself...). We are not making up a story here and "stressing ourselves" for nothing. HO is requesting something that insurers don't seem to offer. Moreover, there is no full explanation by HO of what "comprehensive sickness insurance" means. We all want to get things right.

I would appreciate if you don't mislead people with some outdated information. By the way, the insurance doesn't cost as much as you mentioned and, anyway, during this economy, I find it quite upsetting that you assume that everybody has GBP 200-300 a month to spend on insurance.

Kind regards.

jude
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Re: Hope is understood

Post by jude » Sun Jan 03, 2010 7:24 pm

Iira , I applied 5 years ago . For your information you only receive a letter from the HO asking medical insurance or emergencies as you stated when you or your spouse are not working... is that right? My other point I mentioned is that , all private medical insurance company can see thier client's as well as in emergence situation. I applied used this very route so I know what I am saying. If you get a full private medical insurance for u / ur spouse you would not have any problem with the HO . Note that it would cost not less than 200 a month . If you think I am wrong is uptill you .



]
hallo

Iira
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Re: Hope is understood

Post by Iira » Sun Jan 03, 2010 7:59 pm

jude wrote:Iira , I applied 5 years ago . For your information you only receive a letter from the HO asking medical insurance or emergencies as you stated when you or your spouse are not working... is that right? My other point I mentioned is that , all private medical insurance company can see thier client's as well as in emergence situation. I applied used this very route so I know what I am saying. If you get a full private medical insurance for u / ur spouse you would not have any problem with the HO . Note that it would cost not less than 200 a month . If you think I am wrong is uptill you .
]
For your information...this is all what we've been talking about! From the beginning to the end...
The need of medical insurance is for people who are either self-sufficient or students. Of course that means that one person is not working.

About the cost, I called more than 15 insurance companies and I haven't got a quote of that amount. Again, it could be that 5 years ago the cost was different. I did my research last month. I'm talking about facts not opinions.

We are trying to help each other on the forum. I'm just hoping it remains like that.

Thank you for your thoughts.

I'll come back to the forum once my application is back. Hopefully withing 6 months...

Kind regards.

jude
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Re: Hope is understood

Post by jude » Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:58 pm

Iira , why did you want to wait untill ur application is back before you look for the Insurance? Have you try Universal provendence? It would be better to get 1 and sent it to them before the make their decision.
hallo

Iira
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Re: Hope is understood

Post by Iira » Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:23 pm

jude wrote:Iira , why did you want to wait untill ur application is back before you look for the Insurance? Have you try Universal provendence? It would be better to get 1 and sent it to them before the make their decision.
jude,
the whole point of this thread was that my EEA4 application was rejected because of the lack of insurance. They have recently changed the rules and return all documents to you (rejecting the application) if there is something missing.

As I mentioned before on this thread, I have submitted my application again WITH private medical insurance and received COA 2 weeks after. I did mention that I know how much costs an insurance because I'm paying for one since last month.

I am now waiting for my EEA4 application to be accepted. New rules say that it should be within 6 months of receiving COA. Five more months to wait, hopefully...

Kind regards.

jude
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Re: Hope is understood

Post by jude » Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:19 pm

Honestly they is something I missing. Why do you need Insurance on EEA4? If you are sending private medical Insurance because ur X was not working throughout then you have a very little chance of getting ILF. Can you tell me why you need it? Coz I felt you told me that you are divorce ?
hallo

Iira
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Re: Hope is understood

Post by Iira » Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:26 pm

jude wrote:Honestly they is something I missing. Why do you need Insurance on EEA4? If you are sending private medical Insurance because ur X was not working throughout then you have a very little chance of getting ILF. Can you tell me why you need it? Coz I felt you told me that you are divorce ?
jude,
please read again the thread if you want more information, I already explained my case. I'm on the right application and, as I said, I already got COA. You might be confused with some other case.

By the way, if you meant ILR, as far as I know, it's called Permanent Residence now for European cases.

jude
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Re: Hope is understood

Post by jude » Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:10 pm

I understand your point , what I am asking is Are you looking to backdate insurance because ur X EEA sopuse was not working or what ?
hallo

Iira
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Re: Hope is understood

Post by Iira » Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:49 pm

jude wrote:I understand your point , what I am asking is Are you looking to backdate insurance because ur X EEA sopuse was not working or what ?
Not at all. As far as I know, you cannot backdate an insurance.
Anyway, I'm not looking for anything at the moment. As I already said, just waiting for the result. Thanks.

datuchi
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Re: Hope is understood

Post by datuchi » Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:26 pm

I enjoy your "communication" guys... jude and Iira :))) or shall i say attempt at communication.

Iira wrote:
jude wrote:I understand your point , what I am asking is Are you looking to backdate insurance because ur X EEA sopuse was not working or what ?
Not at all. As far as I know, you cannot backdate an insurance.
Anyway, I'm not looking for anything at the moment. As I already said, just waiting for the result. Thanks.
None of the advice/opinion is expressed with the view of assuming responsibility as to its accuracy. Anyone intending to rely on any advice/opinion should seek independent legal advice before acting upon it.

Joseph1
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Post by Joseph1 » Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:50 pm

Any updates on this?

pukas
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Post by pukas » Wed Feb 24, 2010 3:06 pm

86ti wrote:
biicha wrote:Yes, I'm sorry, I do mean EEA family permit. My husband is not EU citizen and as far as I know he needs the Residence Card to stay here with me.
This UKBA page clearly says 'can' and not 'must'. It also mentions 'confirmation of rights'. Still doubts?
so, it's the same thing in my case: applying for EEA2 as the husband (non European) of a Swiss national:

I have the rights to stay, to work, and EEA2 is only a CONFIRMATION paper?
So when applying for a job, don't really need this EEA2?

thank you so much!

pukas
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Post by pukas » Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:07 pm

If I have a visa family member of a Swiss national until June 2010, isn't there any situation, from July 2010, in which UK authorities will tell me that I don't have a EEA2 residence card to stay and I'll have to leave or give up a job? They will not say "your wife (student) is not exercising treaty rights because both of you don't have any comprehensive sickness insurance"?

thank you for your help!

Kam101
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eea 4 stress

Post by Kam101 » Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:14 pm

Hi I am a non-eea family member of an eea national. I was married to my wife (eea national) in may 2005. My wife was working at that time and worked until march 2006. Then she took maternity leave until august 2006. From August 2006 to jan 2008 she was self sufficient as I was working and was getting student loans (as I was studying as well). From jan 08 onwards she is doing a degree as a full time student. Now the problem is we didnt had medical insurance. Could you answer my following questions.

1. Does a current medical insurance certificate will compensate for non-coverage of previous years.

2. According to section 14 (2) of eea regulations which is : (2) A family member of a qualified person residing in the United Kingdom under paragraph (1) or of an EEA national with a permanent right of residence under regulation 15 is entitled to reside in the United Kingdom for so long as he remains the family member of the qualified person or EEA national.

A qualified person here means an eea national excercising treaty rights. My wife had PR in 2006. So I was a family member of an eea national who is settled in UK, and under above mentioned legislation I was entitled to remain in UK even if my wife wasnt 'qualified' as she has PR.

So can I apply PR on the basis of being a family member of five years of a eea national with PR, Instead of applying on basis of treaty rights as their are gaps and insurance is also a problem.

Thanks

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