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EU Commission takes the UK to court

Use this section for queries concerning applications on any of the EEA series of forms, and also for applications for EEA Family Permits.

Moderators: Casa, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, Zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, push

docteurbenway
Member
Posts: 119
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 2:43 pm
Location: Germany

Re: EC's Reasoned Opinion to the UK dated 26 April 2012

Post by docteurbenway » Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:37 am

kyanfar wrote:Dear All,

I was interested to see the result of the EC reasoned Opinion regarding transposing 2004/38/EC into the UK's national Legislation.

Time was due on 26 June 2012, however, there was no news. I contacted the EC by phone and email on 2 July. Today I have received an email regarding the result.

Here is the email:

"Dear Mr M,
I acknowledge receipt of your e-mail of 2 July 2012 concerning the UK's reply to the
Commission's Reasoned Opinion related to transposition of Directive 2004/3 8/EC.
I would like to inform you that, upon the request of the UK authorities, the Commission has
decided to prolong the deadline for the UK authorities to reply until end of July.
Once the reply is analysed, the Commission will decide on the next steps and could also issue
another press release.
Yours sincerely.
Georgia Georgiadou"
Well it is now August, let us see what excuses are they going to come up with now.

keloid
Junior Member
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:22 am

Re: EC's Reasoned Opinion to the UK dated 26 April 2012

Post by keloid » Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:37 pm

email them again!
docteurbenway wrote:
kyanfar wrote:Dear All,

I was interested to see the result of the EC reasoned Opinion regarding transposing 2004/38/EC into the UK's national Legislation.

Time was due on 26 June 2012, however, there was no news. I contacted the EC by phone and email on 2 July. Today I have received an email regarding the result.

Here is the email:

"Dear Mr M,
I acknowledge receipt of your e-mail of 2 July 2012 concerning the UK's reply to the
Commission's Reasoned Opinion related to transposition of Directive 2004/3 8/EC.
I would like to inform you that, upon the request of the UK authorities, the Commission has
decided to prolong the deadline for the UK authorities to reply until end of July.
Once the reply is analysed, the Commission will decide on the next steps and could also issue
another press release.
Yours sincerely.
Georgia Georgiadou"
Well it is now August, let us see what excuses are they going to come up with now.

mstevens
Newly Registered
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:49 pm

Re: EC's Reasoned Opinion to the UK dated 26 April 2012

Post by mstevens » Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:16 pm

i have done a freedom of information request on this.

see details here:

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/eu_commission
keloid wrote:email them again!
docteurbenway wrote:
kyanfar wrote:Dear All,

I was interested to see the result of the EC reasoned Opinion regarding transposing 2004/38/EC into the UK's national Legislation.

Time was due on 26 June 2012, however, there was no news. I contacted the EC by phone and email on 2 July. Today I have received an email regarding the result.

Here is the email:

"Dear Mr M,
I acknowledge receipt of your e-mail of 2 July 2012 concerning the UK's reply to the
Commission's Reasoned Opinion related to transposition of Directive 2004/3 8/EC.
I would like to inform you that, upon the request of the UK authorities, the Commission has
decided to prolong the deadline for the UK authorities to reply until end of July.
Once the reply is analysed, the Commission will decide on the next steps and could also issue
another press release.
Yours sincerely.
Georgia Georgiadou"
Well it is now August, let us see what excuses are they going to come up with now.

docteurbenway
Member
Posts: 119
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 2:43 pm
Location: Germany

Re: EC's Reasoned Opinion to the UK dated 26 April 2012

Post by docteurbenway » Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:18 am

mstevens wrote:i have done a freedom of information request on this.

see details here:

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/eu_commission
Great, keep at it!

docteurbenway
Member
Posts: 119
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 2:43 pm
Location: Germany

Post by docteurbenway » Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:19 am

People keep this post alive, we are close.

keloid
Junior Member
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:22 am

Post by keloid » Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:18 am

docteurbenway wrote:People keep this post alive, we are close.
reply on FOI request is due today...

EUsmileWEallsmile
Moderator
Posts: 6019
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:22 pm

Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:24 pm

keloid wrote: reply on FOI request is due today...
What are you doing to keep things moving along - just curious.

acme4242
Senior Member
Posts: 604
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:03 pm

Post by acme4242 » Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:25 pm

today is the deadline, but my money is on either no reply, or some nonsense

I see there is another request similarly ignored
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/h ... ing-212050
Honouring Residence Cards from EEA states en lieu of an entry visa

From: Richard Willmer

21 July 2012

Dear Home Office,

I am still awaiting for the reply to my querry of 22 June 2012.
Will it be coming soon?

Yours faithfully,

Richard Willmer

mstevens
Newly Registered
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:49 pm

Post by mstevens » Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:38 pm

Should I not get a response to my FOI request - what should I do?

Anyone have any experience in this?
acme4242 wrote:today is the deadline, but my money is on either no reply, or some nonsense

I see there is another request similarly ignored
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/h ... ing-212050
Honouring Residence Cards from EEA states en lieu of an entry visa

From: Richard Willmer

21 July 2012

Dear Home Office,

I am still awaiting for the reply to my querry of 22 June 2012.
Will it be coming soon?

Yours faithfully,

Richard Willmer

acme4242
Senior Member
Posts: 604
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:03 pm

Post by acme4242 » Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:47 pm

mstevens wrote:Should I not get a response to my FOI request - what should I do?
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/help/unhappy
Last edited by acme4242 on Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

XABI
Newbie
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 2:41 pm

Post by XABI » Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:44 pm

Hi guys what happened to outcome any news regarding to Eu commission takes the UK court

Directive/2004/38/EC
Respected Guru
Posts: 7121
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:09 am
Location: does not matter if you are with your EEA family member

Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:38 pm

mstevens wrote:Should I not get a response to my FOI request - what should I do?

Anyone have any experience in this?
Send them a reminder that you have not had a reply. Ask them when they will reply.

Repeat that once or twice.

Worst case ask for an internal review.

EUsmileWEallsmile
Moderator
Posts: 6019
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:22 pm

Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:28 am

XABI wrote:Hi guys what happened to outcome any news regarding to Eu commission takes the UK court
Keep looking here and when someone has news they will post it. Don't worry you don't have to remind people. There are many people interested in this.

mstevens
Newly Registered
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:49 pm

Post by mstevens » Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:28 am

A reminder has been sent to UKBA
Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:
mstevens wrote:Should I not get a response to my FOI request - what should I do?

Anyone have any experience in this?
Send them a reminder that you have not had a reply. Ask them when they will reply.

Repeat that once or twice.

Worst case ask for an internal review.

Ikonkar
Member
Posts: 163
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:51 pm
India

Post by Ikonkar » Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:04 pm

mstevens wrote:A reminder has been sent to UKBA
Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:
mstevens wrote:Should I not get a response to my FOI request - what should I do?

Anyone have any experience in this?
Send them a reminder that you have not had a reply. Ask them when they will reply.

Repeat that once or twice.

Worst case ask for an internal review.
Hi Martin,

Seems like they've ignored it once again, do not let them get away, complain complain...

http://www.ico.gov.uk/complaints.aspx

Thanks
GOD BLESS
Ikonkar

rogerlongships
Newbie
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:45 pm

Post by rogerlongships » Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:34 pm

This is an interesting thread. 12 months ago i submitted a petition, 1162/2011. That was part of this case that has been bought against the Home Office. Again, a year later we find ourselves yet again being denied travel to the UK without a Visa/EEA FP. ,even after the British Embassy here in Stockholm admitted that we could enter the UK without!! It does not seem to matter that the UK is in breach. I have submiited a complaint to the Justice minister against the ECJ for not protecting and enforcing EU law regarding this issue. I seem to have got more recent news from this board,than i have recieved from the Secetary of Petitions. Im awaiting news over the next 2-8 days as to what action can be taken. As already mentioned, this breach has been in existence since 2006, maybe i was hoping for too much after waiting just 1 year. Does not change the fact that carriers use the excuse of heavy fines being imposed on them if they land a passenger with no visa,but at the same time they themselves breach article 4(1), right to leave with a valid passport. Cheers

Ikonkar
Member
Posts: 163
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:51 pm
India

Post by Ikonkar » Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:40 pm

rogerlongships wrote:This is an interesting thread. 12 months ago i submitted a petition, 1162/2011. That was part of this case that has been bought against the Home Office. Again, a year later we find ourselves yet again being denied travel to the UK without a Visa/EEA FP. ,even after the British Embassy here in Stockholm admitted that we could enter the UK without!! It does not seem to matter that the UK is in breach. I have submiited a complaint to the Justice minister against the ECJ for not protecting and enforcing EU law regarding this issue. I seem to have got more recent news from this board,than i have recieved from the Secetary of Petitions. Im awaiting news over the next 2-8 days as to what action can be taken. As already mentioned, this breach has been in existence since 2006, maybe i was hoping for too much after waiting just 1 year. Does not change the fact that carriers use the excuse of heavy fines being imposed on them if they land a passenger with no visa,but at the same time they themselves breach article 4(1), right to leave with a valid passport. Cheers
brilliant, hopefully will have some update.....
GOD BLESS
Ikonkar

acme4242
Senior Member
Posts: 604
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:03 pm

Post by acme4242 » Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:08 pm

rogerlongships wrote:This is an interesting thread. 12 months ago i submitted a petition, 1162/2011. That was part of this case that has been bought against the Home Office. Again, a year later we find ourselves yet again being denied travel to the UK without a Visa/EEA FP. ,even after the British Embassy here in Stockholm admitted that we could enter the UK without!! It does not seem to matter that the UK is in breach. I have submiited a complaint to the Justice minister against the ECJ for not protecting and enforcing EU law regarding this issue. I seem to have got more recent news from this board,than i have recieved from the Secetary of Petitions. Im awaiting news over the next 2-8 days as to what action can be taken. As already mentioned, this breach has been in existence since 2006, maybe i was hoping for too much after waiting just 1 year. Does not change the fact that carriers use the excuse of heavy fines being imposed on them if they land a passenger with no visa,but at the same time they themselves breach article 4(1), right to leave with a valid passport. Cheers
I took a different approach, you see the EU laws and UK law
already makes it clear that port visas should be issued to EU family
members, if they arrive without a visa, and have their marriage cert
or proof that they are EU family members.

Now the Airlines get there info from TIMATIC, which is written by a IATA company in Holland.
This TIMATIC information which the airlines use says EU family members
must have already a visa or residence card issued under Art 10.

This is wrong, as it does not allow for port visas.
If it had, you could have got the visa in the UK
It would have made the UK violation of Art 10 cards non critical.

I contacted TIMATIC 2 years ago and got the following reply
We are currently investigating this matter, in light of the new Visa Code that came into effect this year and are current awaiting clarification from the EC in Brussels on family members who are not residents within the EEA and Switzerland
Nothing changed. So the EU commission don't really care.

useful links
TIMATIC
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... 623#641623

EDIT: today I have sent another mail to TIMATIC, requesting clarification
I will post if I get anything back, But not holding breath.

rogerlongships
Newbie
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:45 pm

Post by rogerlongships » Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:25 pm

I took a different approach, you see the EU laws and UK law
already makes it clear that port visas should be issued to EU family
members, if they arrive without a visa, and have their marriage cert
or proof that they are EU family members.

Now the Airlines get there info from TIMATIC, which is written by a IATA company in Holland.
This TIMATIC information which the airlines use says EU family members
must have already a visa or residence card issued under Art 10.

This is wrong, as it does not allow for port visas.
If it had, you could have got the visa in the UK
It would have made the UK violation of Art 10 cards non critical.

I contacted TIMATIC 2 years ago and got the following reply
[quote]
We are currently investigating this matter, in light of the new Visa Code that came into effect this year and are current awaiting clarification from the EC in Brussels on family members who are not residents within the EEA and Switzerland
[/quote]

Nothing changed. So the EU commission don't really care.

useful links
TIMATIC
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... 623#641623

EDIT: today I have sent another mail to TIMATIC, requesting clarification
I will post if I get anything back, But not holding breath.[/quote]


Interesting,yet another institution not complying with EU law. I have no problem facing UKBA at the border, the issue the past two years has been getting past the carriers front desk!

mstevens
Newly Registered
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:49 pm

Post by mstevens » Thu Oct 04, 2012 5:37 pm

a complaint has now been sent to the ICO
Ikonkar wrote:
mstevens wrote:A reminder has been sent to UKBA
Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:
mstevens wrote:Should I not get a response to my FOI request - what should I do?

Anyone have any experience in this?
Send them a reminder that you have not had a reply. Ask them when they will reply.

Repeat that once or twice.

Worst case ask for an internal review.
Hi Martin,

Seems like they've ignored it once again, do not let them get away, complain complain...

http://www.ico.gov.uk/complaints.aspx

Thanks

docteurbenway
Member
Posts: 119
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 2:43 pm
Location: Germany

Post by docteurbenway » Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:56 am

I would also strongly suggest that we write to:

Mina Andreeva (+32 2 299 13 82) and Natasha Bertaud (+32 2 296 74 56).

They are the spokespersons for the European Commission behind this press release:

http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAct ... anguage=en

We need to ask them about the EC's stance on this.

I have done so already and am awaiting reply. I urge you to do the same.

Their E-mails are as follows:

Mina.Andreeva@ec.europa.eu

and

Natasha.Bertaud@ec.europa.eu

Remember the more E-mails we write to them, the better are our chances of getting a reply, so please do write and call and share your experiences here.

Thank you.


UPDATE:


Here is the reply:

Dear Mr. ....,

On 26 April the European Commission sent a reasoned opinion to the UK authorities requesting they comply with EU rules on the free movement of EU citizens. This follows the letter of formal notice sent on 22 June 2011.

The case is on-going. You can learn more about the process for the European Commission's infringement proceedings here: http://ec.europa.eu/eu_law/infringement ... nts_en.htm


I am afraid that reasoned opinions addressed to Member States are not public documents and we are thus unable to disclose it to you.

It would be at the discretion of the British authorities to do so.

Best regards,


Natasha BERTAUD
Press Officer for Justice, Fundamental Rights and Citizenship

mstevens
Newly Registered
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:49 pm

Post by mstevens » Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:07 pm

no response from ICO yet re: my complaint....
docteurbenway wrote:I would also strongly suggest that we write to:

Mina Andreeva (+32 2 299 13 82) and Natasha Bertaud (+32 2 296 74 56).

They are the spokespersons for the European Commission behind this press release:

http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAct ... anguage=en

We need to ask them about the EC's stance on this.

I have done so already and am awaiting reply. I urge you to do the same.

Their E-mails are as follows:

Mina.Andreeva@ec.europa.eu

and

Natasha.Bertaud@ec.europa.eu

Remember the more E-mails we write to them, the better are our chances of getting a reply, so please do write and call and share your experiences here.

Thank you.


UPDATE:


Here is the reply:

Dear Mr. ....,

On 26 April the European Commission sent a reasoned opinion to the UK authorities requesting they comply with EU rules on the free movement of EU citizens. This follows the letter of formal notice sent on 22 June 2011.

The case is on-going. You can learn more about the process for the European Commission's infringement proceedings here: http://ec.europa.eu/eu_law/infringement ... nts_en.htm


I am afraid that reasoned opinions addressed to Member States are not public documents and we are thus unable to disclose it to you.

It would be at the discretion of the British authorities to do so.

Best regards,


Natasha BERTAUD
Press Officer for Justice, Fundamental Rights and Citizenship

docteurbenway
Member
Posts: 119
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 2:43 pm
Location: Germany

Post by docteurbenway » Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:03 am

Not directly related to the thread, but here is some fun reading material while we wait:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19944072

mstevens
Newly Registered
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:49 pm

Post by mstevens » Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:33 am

The ICO is completely ignoring me and my complaint re: UKBA.

Next step?

Richard66
Senior Member
Posts: 745
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:17 pm
Location: Italy

Post by Richard66 » Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:02 pm

docteurbenway wrote:Not directly related to the thread, but here is some fun reading material while we wait:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19944072
The Mail on Sunday reported that the education secretary believed it was time to tell the EU to "give us back our sovereignty or we will walk out"
.

I wonder if the Government realises the rest of the EU would give three cheers and get back to work, without needing to worry about the UK's nver-say-yes policy. These deluded chaps seem to be under the impression the rest of the EU will bend backwards to please them. :(
Last edited by Richard66 on Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Aiming at travelling to the UK with my wife and not with an EEA FP!

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