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EU Commission takes the UK to court

Use this section for queries concerning applications on any of the EEA series of forms, and also for applications for EEA Family Permits.

Moderators: Casa, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, Zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, push

docteurbenway
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Post by docteurbenway » Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:56 am

I would also strongly suggest that we write to:

Mina Andreeva (+32 2 299 13 82) and Natasha Bertaud (+32 2 296 74 56).

They are the spokespersons for the European Commission behind this press release:

http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAct ... anguage=en

We need to ask them about the EC's stance on this.

I have done so already and am awaiting reply. I urge you to do the same.

Their E-mails are as follows:

Mina.Andreeva@ec.europa.eu

and

Natasha.Bertaud@ec.europa.eu

Remember the more E-mails we write to them, the better are our chances of getting a reply, so please do write and call and share your experiences here.

Thank you.


UPDATE:


Here is the reply:

Dear Mr. ....,

On 26 April the European Commission sent a reasoned opinion to the UK authorities requesting they comply with EU rules on the free movement of EU citizens. This follows the letter of formal notice sent on 22 June 2011.

The case is on-going. You can learn more about the process for the European Commission's infringement proceedings here: http://ec.europa.eu/eu_law/infringement ... nts_en.htm


I am afraid that reasoned opinions addressed to Member States are not public documents and we are thus unable to disclose it to you.

It would be at the discretion of the British authorities to do so.

Best regards,


Natasha BERTAUD
Press Officer for Justice, Fundamental Rights and Citizenship

mstevens
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Post by mstevens » Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:07 pm

no response from ICO yet re: my complaint....
docteurbenway wrote:I would also strongly suggest that we write to:

Mina Andreeva (+32 2 299 13 82) and Natasha Bertaud (+32 2 296 74 56).

They are the spokespersons for the European Commission behind this press release:

http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAct ... anguage=en

We need to ask them about the EC's stance on this.

I have done so already and am awaiting reply. I urge you to do the same.

Their E-mails are as follows:

Mina.Andreeva@ec.europa.eu

and

Natasha.Bertaud@ec.europa.eu

Remember the more E-mails we write to them, the better are our chances of getting a reply, so please do write and call and share your experiences here.

Thank you.


UPDATE:


Here is the reply:

Dear Mr. ....,

On 26 April the European Commission sent a reasoned opinion to the UK authorities requesting they comply with EU rules on the free movement of EU citizens. This follows the letter of formal notice sent on 22 June 2011.

The case is on-going. You can learn more about the process for the European Commission's infringement proceedings here: http://ec.europa.eu/eu_law/infringement ... nts_en.htm


I am afraid that reasoned opinions addressed to Member States are not public documents and we are thus unable to disclose it to you.

It would be at the discretion of the British authorities to do so.

Best regards,


Natasha BERTAUD
Press Officer for Justice, Fundamental Rights and Citizenship

docteurbenway
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Location: Germany

Post by docteurbenway » Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:03 am

Not directly related to the thread, but here is some fun reading material while we wait:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19944072

mstevens
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Post by mstevens » Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:33 am

The ICO is completely ignoring me and my complaint re: UKBA.

Next step?

Richard66
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Post by Richard66 » Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:02 pm

docteurbenway wrote:Not directly related to the thread, but here is some fun reading material while we wait:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19944072
The Mail on Sunday reported that the education secretary believed it was time to tell the EU to "give us back our sovereignty or we will walk out"
.

I wonder if the Government realises the rest of the EU would give three cheers and get back to work, without needing to worry about the UK's nver-say-yes policy. These deluded chaps seem to be under the impression the rest of the EU will bend backwards to please them. :(
Last edited by Richard66 on Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Aiming at travelling to the UK with my wife and not with an EEA FP!

Richard66
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Post by Richard66 » Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:04 pm

mstevens wrote:The ICO is completely ignoring me and my complaint re: UKBA.

Next step?
You just keep writing the way I am doing. Have you contacted your MP? I need to get hold of mine (raised by the Home Office to the Peerage!)

At a certain point you can set the lawyers on them, I believe.
Aiming at travelling to the UK with my wife and not with an EEA FP!

Directive/2004/38/EC
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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:37 pm

The Mail on Sunday reported that the education secretary believed it was time to tell the EU to "give us back our sovereignty or we will walk out"
Something smells odd. Must be election season again!

docteurbenway
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Location: Germany

Post by docteurbenway » Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:44 am

More fun reading, i am sorry if i am posting too many articles, but it is just great comedy fun:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 12365.html

jotter
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Post by jotter » Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:50 pm

Hmm. While the '130 measures' seems harmless enough, Theresa May's comments about freedom of movement last week were not my idea of a good joke. The Tory fixation on this is discomforting for EU nationals/families and if the ministry continue play appeasement with the party right-wing and trying to win votes from UKIP by euro-bashing it could develop a momentum of its own. Having said that, heads of state on the continent seem to be doing their best to help the euro-sceptics this year.

docteurbenway
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Post by docteurbenway » Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:48 pm

For all of us who are waiting for this matter to be resolved soon, here are a few words from Theresa May to help "lift our spirits":

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ssels.html

and

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/oct/0 ... -migration

Here is a quote right on the money, published less than a week ago:

"May wants to review the way EU rules allow partners of EU citizens to reside in the EU. Once they enter the territory of the host member state, non-EU family members enjoy the same right of residence as the person they are accompanying, provided they hold a valid passport. The free movement directive extends the right to equal treatment – including access to social assistance – to non-EU family members who have the right of residence or permanent residence in the host member state...May is struggling to reach her aim of cutting the overall number of immigrants to the UK to below 100,000, partly due to her inability to slap any direct controls on EU migrants. EU migration accounted for 27% of total UK net immigration in 2010, a majority of which came from the eastern European states that joined the EU in 2004."

ruben7
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Post by ruben7 » Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:00 pm

I ask the Gurus and Moderators to give your opinion on this matter. I have been reading about this situation from different sources, and I am sure there are lots of people here who are very concerned about this matter, I am certainly one of them.

I know that these new rules are not going to happen by tomorrow or in a week, but most probably they would happen. I know that there are hundreds, thousands of couples all over the world who are planning on coming to the UK.

So I will like to know what some of the Gurus and Moderators who are so knowledgeable on this matters can advice people on this forum.

A few questions :

1-) Can it happen ?

2-)When would it happen ?

3-) What would happen to the people or couples that are married to EU Citizens living in the UK and are NON-EU nationals themselves or like in my case I still dont have a passport from my wife's EU country ?

4-) Would they kick us out ?

5-) What about all the couples that are planning on coming here ?

So many questions, so many concerns.... and at the end of the day we all want to just be with our couples and have a good life !


Give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar" We all want to work and eat bread from the sweat that runs down from our foreheads due to our daily work

It's a shame that some people don't realize this.

tanabrennan
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Post by tanabrennan » Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:35 pm

ruben7 wrote:I ask the Gurus and Moderators to give your opinion on this matter. I have been reading about this situation from different sources, and I am sure there are lots of people here who are very concerned about this matter, I am certainly one of them.

I know that these new rules are not going to happen by tomorrow or in a week, but most probably they would happen. I know that there are hundreds, thousands of couples all over the world who are planning on coming to the UK.

So I will like to know what some of the Gurus and Moderators who are so knowledgeable on this matters can advice people on this forum.

A few questions :

1-) Can it happen ?

2-)When would it happen ?

3-) What would happen to the people or couples that are married to EU Citizens living in the UK and are NON-EU nationals themselves or like in my case I still dont have a passport from my wife's EU country ?

4-) Would they kick us out ?

5-) What about all the couples that are planning on coming here ?

So many questions, so many concerns.... and at the end of the day we all want to just be with our couples and have a good life !


Give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar" We all want to work and eat bread from the sweat that runs down from our foreheads due to our daily work

It's a shame that some people don't realize this.
Stop worrying yourself, there are million of eea citizen and their families apart from spouse here in UK, they will have a big job on their hand and moreover, if they want you to leave then your eea member too must leave first.
All you are reading and they are shouting on TV is just Politics, its a game to keep their votes. at the end you will see nothing will happen. Do you think UK is not Enjoying be BIG Boss in the EU?

Directive/2004/38/EC
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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:42 pm

My take on it: It is nothing to worry about. It is all political show. Free movement rights come from the original founding treaty of the EU and there is no way for the UK to opt out.

mstevens
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Post by mstevens » Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:14 pm

Finally received a response from the UKBA to my FOI request.

See response here:

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/1 ... sponse.pdf

Have read through. The response seems like a complete palm off but want to get other people's thoughts on this.

I think if we collectively dissect this letter and share comments - then maybe we can come together and draft a suitable reply to the UKBA on this?

docteurbenway
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Location: Germany

Post by docteurbenway » Wed Oct 24, 2012 6:48 am

mstevens wrote:Finally received a response from the UKBA to my FOI request.

See response here:

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/1 ... sponse.pdf

Have read through. The response seems like a complete palm off but want to get other people's thoughts on this.

I think if we collectively dissect this letter and share comments - then maybe we can come together and draft a suitable reply to the UKBA on this?
Hi Martin,

i had a quick read-through of the response and it looks like the UKBA are pretty much saying:

1- Our interpretation is that only holders of UK issued residence cards are not required to get an EEA Family permit and that is in accordance with the directive. We are not going to amend anything with regards to all EEA Family cards from other EU states until actually forced to do so by the ECJ. (So far they have not been referred to the ECJ and all of this is just opinions and recommendations)

2- They are trying to find all possible legal loopholes not to disclose any communications with the commission to the public.

As things stand they are saying nothing will change until ECJ rules on the matter. So far the case is still in the recommendation phases. This is similar to the Surinder-Singh case where only by force of an ECJ ruling are they going to apply the rules correctly.

So now we wait for the case to be resolved in court. At this stage it is pretty much useless to reply to this or ask anymore information since they wish to ignore everything related to the matter until the ECJ rules.

The main issue here continues to be that the UK is actually allowing EEA Family members to enter the UK by providing a so called stamp A1 or 1A(not sure) and it actually says in their manuals that the EEA Family permit is not mandatory.

So family members can argue their way into the UK if:

1.They manage to reach the border
2.Have a marriage certificate and spouse is with them
3.Argue their way and spend time and nerves on it

This is made difficult since the UK uses the confusion in different laws to scare airlines into not accepting EEA Family cards on board, under the threat of fines, which is not true or legal.

So options are either travel by car/ferry from Calais or use the Lille loophole. Since EEA Family permits are not mandatory both options work in 90% of cases. It does however require nerves of steel.

So far the most easily accessible part of the UK is Northern Ireland. Again all of this does not make any sense and our only hope is the ECJ.

Hubba
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Post by Hubba » Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:03 pm

docteurbenway wrote: So options are either travel by car/ferry from Calais or use the Lille loophole. Since EEA Family permits are not mandatory both options work in 90% of cases. It does however require nerves of steel.

So far the most easily accessible part of the UK is Northern Ireland. Again all of this does not make any sense and our only hope is the ECJ.
No such thing as the Lille loophole anymore. UKBA implemented passport checks on the arrival at St. Pancras. At least I've passed through such checks the last couple of times I've used the Eurostar. They check the stamped boarding pass and passport.

Directive/2004/38/EC
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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:13 pm

What is the "Lille loophole"?

Jambo
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Post by Jambo » Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:34 pm


onlineamiga
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Post by onlineamiga » Sat Nov 10, 2012 11:22 pm

So any update on this ECJ threat from Europe? Is the EU Commission going to continue sitting on their mule whilst the UK continues to get away with denying people their fundamental European free movement rights?

docteurbenway
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Post by docteurbenway » Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:50 am

onlineamiga wrote:So any update on this ECJ threat from Europe? Is the EU Commission going to continue sitting on their mule whilst the UK continues to get away with denying people their fundamental European free movement rights?
Still no news, but here is a funny article to cheer us up while we wait:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... itain.html

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