Irish citizen got pre-settled status, yet is considered settled in the UK by law?

Folks, I've tried searching for the answer to this but the forum's search feature returns hundreds of results that are not really relevant, so apologize in advance if this has been discussed before!

When my Irish citizen spouse applied for EUSS back in 2019, she got pre-settled status. As an Irish citizen, she didn't need the status, but only applied so that I (Canadian) can also apply under the EUSS.

AFAIK Irish citizens are considered "settled" from the day they move to the UK i.e. they have indefinite leave to remain. Does anyone know why she received pre-settled status? Was it because she had just moved to the UK? In any case, shouldn't an Irish citizen theoretically receive settled status if they live in the UK, regardless of how long they've lived?

avro1959 wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 05, 2023 10:59 pm

As an Irish citizen, she didn't need the status, but only applied so that I (Canadian) can also apply under the EUSS.

She mightn't have to do so.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... embers.pdf

[Irish] family members (who are not Irish citizens or British citizens and who do not
have leave to enter or remain in the UK) will need to make an application for status
under the EU Settlement Scheme, and they can do so whether or not the Irish citizen
has done so.

avro1959 wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 05, 2023 10:59 pm

In any case, shouldn't an Irish citizen theoretically receive settled status if they live in the UK, regardless of how long they've lived?

I'll state straight away that I don't have much (if any) experience with EUSS, just looking at it with my existing (abeit limited) knowledge about Irish citizens.
But I would say no; Irish citizens' status (which is their Irish citizenship), which is "being considered settled when they arrive in UK" might differ from EUSS "settled status", which is given after a person has been living for 5 years under relevant rules.
Imagine an Irish person coming to UK on a work visa. Requirement states they have to live in the UK for 5 years to apply for ILR (which is also a settlement status in UK); would Irish citizens be able to apply for ILR straight away because they're Irish? Doubt that.

I'm, of course, inviting more knowledgeable folks to participate in the discussion.

Again it is a very strange and unique approach when it comes to Irish citizens. I consider the point you made, however, you would be surprised that kids born to Irish citizens are qualified to become the British citizen regardless of the status of the parents under the EUSS

It's due to the CTA which pre-dates EUPR/EUSS by decades - same applies to British citizens in Eire/

meself2 wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 05, 2023 11:14 pm

Imagine an Irish person coming to UK on a work visa. Requirement states they have to live in the UK for 5 years to apply for ILR (which is also a settlement status in UK); would Irish citizens be able to apply for ILR straight away because they're Irish? Doubt that.

Irish citizens don't have to "apply" for ILR because they already have ILR from the moment they move to the UK. It's the only non-UK citizenship that is not subject to immigration control in the UK. See the quote below from the House of Commons Library:

In short, the Republic of Ireland is not considered to be a ‘foreign country’ for the purpose of UK laws, and Irish citizens are not considered to be ‘aliens’. Furthermore, Irish citizens are treated as if they have permanent immigration permission to remain in the UK from the date they take up ‘ordinary residence’ here.

From everything I've read, an EUSS Settled status is the same as the ILR, and Irish citizens have ILR from the day they move. So it's a bit confusing that she has both indefinitely leave to remain and a pre-settled status which is a limited leave to remain.

euspouse07 wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 06, 2023 10:11 am

Again it is a very strange and unique approach when it comes to Irish citizens. I consider the point you made, however, you would be surprised that kids born to Irish citizens are qualified to become the British citizen regardless of the status of the parents under the EUSS

Not so much a "strange and unique approach", rather the result of the Common Travel Agreement (CTA) which pre-dates the EU by several decades. If you thought the EU freedom of movement was good, the CTA is on steroids. It basically provides for equal rights for Irish and British citizens in each other's countries.

Irish citizens are not considered foreigners in the UK. They are not subject to immigration control, they have ILR, right to live, work, study, pay home fees, rent or buy homes, access public funds, pensions, etc. So it's not surprising that a child born in the UK to Irish parents is entitled to British citizenship at birth. It also works the other way round - British citizens in Ireland enjoy the same civil rights as Irish citizens. So a child born in Galway to two British parents is entitled to Irish citizenship.

One area where there's no reciprocity is public office. An Irish citizen can be a Member of Parliament in the UK, but a British citizen cannot be a Teachta Dála in Ireland.

avro1959 wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 06, 2023 1:31 pm

meself2 wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 05, 2023 11:14 pm

Imagine an Irish person coming to UK on a work visa. Requirement states they have to live in the UK for 5 years to apply for ILR (which is also a settlement status in UK); would Irish citizens be able to apply for ILR straight away because they're Irish? Doubt that.

Irish citizens don't have to "apply" for ILR because they already have ILR from the moment they move to the UK. It's the only non-UK citizenship that is not subject to immigration control in the UK. See the quote below from the House of Commons Library:

In short, the Republic of Ireland is not considered to be a ‘foreign country’ for the purpose of UK laws, and Irish citizens are not considered to be ‘aliens’. Furthermore, Irish citizens are treated as if they have permanent immigration permission to remain in the UK from the date they take up ‘ordinary residence’ here.

From everything I've read, an EUSS Settled status is the same as the ILR, and Irish citizens have ILR from the day they move. So it's a bit confusing that she has both indefinitely leave to remain and a pre-settled status which is a limited leave to remain.

As you've correctly mentioned, Irish citizens are by law settled in the UK. Vice versa for Brits in The island of Ireland.

The Good Friday agreement confirms this.

Your spouse's application for settled status must have confused the person that had to make a decision. He/she looked at the time spent and "kinda" rightfully gave the "sorta" correct verdict based on the time lived in the UK.

Just after Brexit in 2020, my cousin (Irish citizen) entered the UK from Heathrow, the E-gates didn't work so he went to the immigration desk. The immigration at POE was confused and asked his colleague, "what do we do about the Irish"? Colleague responds that they get everything.
So, not everyone knows! They are only human after all.

avro1959 wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 06, 2023 1:31 pm

meself2 wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 05, 2023 11:14 pm

Imagine an Irish person coming to UK on a work visa. Requirement states they have to live in the UK for 5 years to apply for ILR (which is also a settlement status in UK); would Irish citizens be able to apply for ILR straight away because they're Irish? Doubt that.

Irish citizens don't have to "apply" for ILR because they already have ILR from the moment they move to the UK. It's the only non-UK citizenship that is not subject to immigration control in the UK. See the quote below from the House of Commons Library:

In short, the Republic of Ireland is not considered to be a ‘foreign country’ for the purpose of UK laws, and Irish citizens are not considered to be ‘aliens’. Furthermore, Irish citizens are treated as if they have permanent immigration permission to remain in the UK from the date they take up ‘ordinary residence’ here.

From everything I've read, an EUSS Settled status is the same as the ILR, and Irish citizens have ILR from the day they move. So it's a bit confusing that she has both indefinitely leave to remain and a pre-settled status which is a limited leave to remain.

I know, but it was an example distinguishing between different pathways to the UK settlement to try and make it less confusing for you.
There are two main pathways applicable here:
- Irish citizens' settled status, which is one thing, due to CTA, and
- EUSS (pre) settled status.

As Irish citizens don't need to apply for EUSS (but the are treated as if they had, where it's needed so), there's no special provisions to magically upgrade them to settled status via EUSS as soon as they applied - there's no need, they have settled status already from CTA. So according to the rules, they get status depending on the time spent in the UK, as all EU citizens.

avro1959 wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 05, 2023 10:59 pm

When my Irish citizen spouse applied for EUSS back in 2019, she got pre-settled status. As an Irish citizen, she didn't need the status, but only applied so that I (Canadian) can also apply under the EUSS.

Not directly answering your question, but on a relevant tangent: Your spouse having Settled Status does not entitle you to have Settled Status. You have to do the 5 years yourself (in case you were having the expectation of qualifying for Settled Status, just because he is entitled to it).

But if you already knew that, feel free to ignore this post.

Appreciate everyone’s responses and thoughts about the situation. I think we’ll just chalk it up to a mistake cause in my mind there’s an inconsistency in her status as being both settled (by citizenship) and pre-settled by their judgement.

avro1959 wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 07, 2023 7:04 pm

Appreciate everyone’s responses and thoughts about the situation. I think we’ll just chalk it up to a mistake cause in my mind there’s an inconsistency in her status as being both settled (by citizenship) and pre-settled by their judgement.

Keep in mind this is a non-issue. He is Irish, and he does not need Status under the EU Settlement Scheme, therefore, what status he has is completely irrelevant.

(This is why I clarified your own status has nothing to do with his status, in case you thought there was some relevance.)

kamoe wrote: ↑

Fri Jun 09, 2023 1:34 pm

avro1959 wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 07, 2023 7:04 pm

Appreciate everyone’s responses and thoughts about the situation. I think we’ll just chalk it up to a mistake cause in my mind there’s an inconsistency in her status as being both settled (by citizenship) and pre-settled by their judgement.

Keep in mind this is a non-issue. He is Irish, and he does not need Status under the EU Settlement Scheme, therefore, what status he has is completely irrelevant.

(This is why I clarified your own status has nothing to do with his status, in case you thought there was some relevance.)

Perhaps my memory is hazy, but I recall that when I submitted my pre-settled application, having proof of my wife’s pre-settled status helped ie I provided her reference number along with my application and as a result I didn’t have to provide any proof that I wasn’t in the UK before the deadline - my wife was though, so my application was based on her presence in the UK prior to the deadline.

Her status “expires” in 2024 while mine “expires” in 2026, whatever the term expires mean considering the recent court ruling. I guess I’m trying to figure out if she needs to renew her status in 2024 so that I don’t have any issues renewing mine in 2026, or whether this is all a non-issue considering the court ruling.

Cheers thanks!!

avro1959 wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 20, 2023 10:09 pm

I guess I’m trying to figure out if she needs to renew her status in 2024 so that I don’t have any issues renewing mine in 2026, or whether this is all a non-issue considering the court ruling.

Difficult to tell how straightforward the process would be if he does not "renew", but as of today, upgrading from Pre-Settled to Settled is straightforward for EU nationals, so if your objective is to make your process as smooth as possible, better to just go ahead and do it.