Pre-settled to settled status - Family EEA

Hi,

I was reading this article: https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/immig ... led-status

I'm EU and my partner (non-married, durable relationship) is non-EU. He's on pre-settled status (since May 2022, he was on a Tier 2 Skilled Work Visa before then), I'm on settled status. He'd like to apply for settled status in 2027. However, if we get married, would we restart the 5 year clock? Seems ridiculous to do so but then he'd switch from being an "extended family member" to a "close family member" where for a "close family member", the date would start from the wedding date if that's the "later" date.

Many thanks,
Melissa

MelK83 wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:01 pm

I'm EU and my partner (non-married, durable relationship) is non-EU. He's on pre-settled status (since May 2022, he was on a Tier 2 Skilled Work Visa before then), I'm on settled status. He'd like to apply for settled status in 2027. However, if we get married, would we restart the 5 year clock?

No.

Seems ridiculous to do so but then he'd switch from being an "extended family member" to a "close family member" where for a "close family member", the date would start from the wedding date if that's the "later" date.

You are making up constraints that don't exist. In fact, the moment he was issued with his Pre-Settled Status, he likely started to be considered as a close family member for immigration purposes (at least that was the case Pre-Brexit and the equivalent EEA route).

His clock starts on the date he was issued pre-Settled Status, and that will only change if he leaves the UK for more than 6 months. The marriage date only applies for first-time applicants, if their relationship prior to marriage does not qualify as durable.

Do not overthink.

kamoe wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 17, 2022 6:00 pm

MelK83 wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 17, 2022 5:01 pm

I'm EU and my partner (non-married, durable relationship) is non-EU. He's on pre-settled status (since May 2022, he was on a Tier 2 Skilled Work Visa before then), I'm on settled status. He'd like to apply for settled status in 2027. However, if we get married, would we restart the 5 year clock?

No.

Seems ridiculous to do so but then he'd switch from being an "extended family member" to a "close family member" where for a "close family member", the date would start from the wedding date if that's the "later" date.

You are making up constraints that don't exist. In fact, the moment he was issued with his Pre-Settled Status, he likely started to be considered as a close family member for immigration purposes (at least that was the case Pre-Brexit and the equivalent EEA route).

His clock starts on the date he was issued pre-Settled Status, and that will only change if he leaves the UK for more than 6 months. The marriage date only applies for first-time applicants, if their relationship prior to marriage does not qualify as durable.

Do not overthink.

Thank you! I'm a massive over-thinker unfortunately.

Hi!

My partner just got pre-settled status through me (I'm EU, he's not). So his continuous residency restarts as before he was on a Tier 2 Skilled Worker visa.

So, will he have to apply 28 days before his pre-settled status expires to be safe? (This is what I've read online.) But then it'll be like 4 years 11 months, not 5 years exactly.

Thanks so much!

MelK83 wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:05 pm

My partner just got pre-settled status through me (I'm EU, he's not).

Yes, that's clear, since you said hes on the durable partnership route.

So his continuous residency restarts as before he was on a Tier 2 Skilled Worker visa.

Not sure what you are trying to say here. We already established that his continuous period starts on the day he was issued Pre-Settled status. Having had a Tier 2 visa beforehand doesn't change anything.

So, will he have to apply 28 days before his pre-settled status expires to be safe? (This is what I've read online.)

No. Applicants are explicitly told to apply for Settled Status when they are eligible (when they meet the 5 year requirement).

If they apply early and their application arrives at the case worker before the 5 years are complete, then they will be re issued Pre-Settled Status yet again, since the 5 years have not been completed, that's the rule. They would have to apply again once their 5 years are complete to get Settled Status, so attempts to apply early to save time might actually backfire.

I believe the 28 days is a rule for routes on the UK immigration rules apart from the EU Settlement Scheme, so it does not apply.

kamoe wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:15 pm

MelK83 wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:05 pm

My partner just got pre-settled status through me (I'm EU, he's not).

Yes, that's clear, since you said hes on the durable partnership route.

So his continuous residency restarts as before he was on a Tier 2 Skilled Worker visa.

Not sure what you are trying to say here. We already established that his continuous period starts on the day he was issued Pre-Settled status. Having had a Tier 2 visa beforehand doesn't change anything.

So, will he have to apply 28 days before his pre-settled status expires to be safe? (This is what I've read online.)

Applicants are told to apply when they are eligible. If they apply early and their application is considered before they meet their eligibility criteria, then they will be re issued Pre-Settled Status, since the 5 years have not been completed, that's the rule.

I believe the 28 days is a rule for routes on the UK immigration rules apart from the EU Settlement Scheme, so it does not apply.

Ah, but his pre-settled status is valid 3 May 2022 - 4 May 2027, so what day would he have to apply to switch to settled status on? 2 May 2027, 3 May 2027 or 4 May 2027? What if these fall on weekend days?

Just so I understand, if say he applied on 1 May 2027 and he was re-issued pre-settled status, what would the expiry date be? Still 4 May 2027? As I thought there was no extension.

Thanks again!

MelK83 wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:18 pm

Ah, but his pre-settled status is valid 3 May 2022 - 4 May 2027, so what day would he have to apply to switch to settled status on?

4 May 2027.

Just so I understand, if say he applied on 1 May 2027 and he was re-issued pre-settled status, what would the expiry date be? Still 4 May 2027? As I thought there was no extension.

No. It would be 5 years from date of issue.

Yes, there are extensions, but they don't call them that. The caseworker guidance explains very clearly that when an applicant has completed a continuous period residence of less than 5 years, they are eligible for Pre-Settled Status (section "Continuous qualifying period of less than 5 years" pages 94-95):

Continuous qualifying period of less than 5 years
A family member of a relevant EEA citizen, or a family member who has retained the right of residence by virtue of a relationship with a relevant EEA citizen, who, at the date of application and in an application made by the required date, has completed a continuous qualifying period of residence in the UK and Islands of less than 5 years which (unless they are the dependent relative of a specified relevant person of Northern Ireland) began before the specified date, and who does not qualify under one of the routes to ILR or ILE for those who have completed such a continuous qualifying period of less than 5 years, will – in the case of a family member of a Page 95 of 237 Published for Home Office staff on 13 April 2022 relevant EEA citizen, where there has been no supervening event in respect of the relevant EEA citizen – be eligible for 5 years’ limited leave to enter or limited leave to remain (LTE or LTR), under condition 1 in rule EU14.

and this is allowed even if they already have Pre-Settled status. That is an extension in practical terms.

See the section "Further applications" in page 59-60.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... embers.pdf

If you grant pre-settled status where the applicant has pre-settled status, then it will vary (replace) the earlier grant of pre-settled status. The date of the first grant of presettled status will remain the start date of their pre-settled status. The expiry date of their pre-settled status will be 5 years from the date of decision on the further application for pre-settled status.

kamoe wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:34 pm

MelK83 wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:18 pm

Ah, but his pre-settled status is valid 3 May 2022 - 4 May 2027, so what day would he have to apply to switch to settled status on?

4 May 2027.

Just so I understand, if say he applied on 1 May 2027 and he was re-issued pre-settled status, what would the expiry date be? Still 4 May 2027? As I thought there was no extension.

No. It would be 5 years from date of issue.

Yes, there are extensions, but they don't call them that. The caseworker guidance explains very clearly that when an applicant has completed a continuous period residence of less than 5 years, they are eligible for Pre-Settled Status (section "Continuous qualifying period of less than 5 years" pages 94-95):

Continuous qualifying period of less than 5 years
A family member of a relevant EEA citizen, or a family member who has retained the right of residence by virtue of a relationship with a relevant EEA citizen, who, at the date of application and in an application made by the required date, has completed a continuous qualifying period of residence in the UK and Islands of less than 5 years which (unless they are the dependent relative of a specified relevant person of Northern Ireland) began before the specified date, and who does not qualify under one of the routes to ILR or ILE for those who have completed such a continuous qualifying period of less than 5 years, will – in the case of a family member of a Page 95 of 237 Published for Home Office staff on 13 April 2022 relevant EEA citizen, where there has been no supervening event in respect of the relevant EEA citizen – be eligible for 5 years’ limited leave to enter or limited leave to remain (LTE or LTR), under condition 1 in rule EU14.

and this is allowed even if they already have Pre-Settled status. That is an extension in practical terms.

See the section "Further applications" in page 59-60.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... embers.pdf

If you grant pre-settled status where the applicant has pre-settled status, then it will vary (replace) the earlier grant of pre-settled status. The date of the first grant of presettled status will remain the start date of their pre-settled status. The expiry date of their pre-settled status will be 5 years from the date of decision on the further application for pre-settled status.

Ok, so, to be clear on the logic, if he were to re-apply for pre-settled (as a family member of an EEA citizen) status tomorrow and have it granted on 30 August 2022, he'd have a new pre-settled status granted letter saying it expires on 30 August 2027 but started on 3 May 2022 (original date)? Is there not an advantage of doing this to be "safe" as what if on 4 May 2022, there is a massive internet outage or something? (I know this is being dramatic - I just don't want his pre-settled status to expire.)

Another separate question: Would he have to do biometrics again for any further applications? (Settled status, naturalisation, etc.) He had to do them for the pre-settled status (and separately for his Tier 2).

Another even more separate question: I can apply for naturalisation in May 2023 but I see the whole Lounes Application seems less than ideal. I didn't really want to wait an extra 4 years to apply for naturalisation so I'm trying to understand the trade-off here of how hard is Lounes? Is it just more work to fill out the paper and a longer wait time? But it's not more or less likely to be granted than settled status?

Thank you again!

MelK83 wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:57 pm

Ok, so, to be clear on the logic, if he were to re-apply for pre-settled (as a family member of an EEA citizen) status tomorrow and have it granted on 30 August 2022, he'd have a new pre-settled status granted letter saying it expires on 30 August 2027 but started on 3 May 2022 (original date)?

That is what the caseworker guidance says.

Is there not an advantage of doing this to be "safe" as what if on 4 May 2022, there is a massive internet outage or something? (I know this is being dramatic - I just don't want his pre-settled status to expire.)

Good question. You could say it, but... I am wondering if this technique works for everyone. There is probably a catch? I am wondering if they indeed do grant pre-settled status to everyone who applies and is eligible. In theory that is what they should do, but in practice... there are always hidden/blank sections in the guidance that are restricted in the published document and we cannot see. I am wondering if there is further information on wether they sometimes can simply... not do anything with repeat applications, not grant, not cancel; just treat the application as void? It says "If you grant pre settled status" not 'when you grant pre-Settled status", which suggests not all repeat applications result in repeat pre-settled status.

I would say, you lose nothing by just trying.

Another separate question: Would he have to do biometrics again for any further applications? (Settled status, naturalisation, etc.) He had to do them for the pre-settled status (and separately for his Tier 2).

I would think no. Biometrics is needed for when you need a physical card. The EU Settled status itself is digital; biometrics were needed in his case because he is non-EU and did not have a card under the EUSS. But now that he has a card, it should not get replaced, and thus he should not need to do biometrics again.

I didn't really want to wait an extra 4 years to apply for naturalisation so

True that 4 years is a long time to wait, but just so it's clear, apart from being able to vote on general elections (which, granted, might be a valid motivation) there aren't any substantial advantages of life in the UK between being a British citizen and just having Settled Status.

I'm trying to understand the trade-off here of how hard is Lounes? Is it just more work to fill out the paper and a longer wait time? But it's not more or less likely to be granted than settled status?

Unfortunately we don't have comprehensive timelines to tell how much longer a Lounes application takes compared to a regular one. We just know that you cannot apply online, but instead you need use a paper form that you have to request by phone, and it will be pre-filled for you with your details, so you can imagine how that in itself adds much more room for error and delay (I imagine you have seen this post).

The issue with Lounes is not about likelihood it's about it just being unnecessarily cumbersome. Then again, if we are talking 4 years, then... that might justify it.

kamoe wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:21 pm

MelK83 wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 17, 2022 8:57 pm

Ok, so, to be clear on the logic, if he were to re-apply for pre-settled (as a family member of an EEA citizen) status tomorrow and have it granted on 30 August 2022, he'd have a new pre-settled status granted letter saying it expires on 30 August 2027 but started on 3 May 2022 (original date)?

That is what the caseworker guidance says.

Is there not an advantage of doing this to be "safe" as what if on 4 May 2022, there is a massive internet outage or something? (I know this is being dramatic - I just don't want his pre-settled status to expire.)

Good question. You could say it, but... I am wondering if this technique works for everyone. There is probably a catch? I am wondering if they indeed do grant pre-settled status to everyone who applies and is eligible. In theory that is what they should do, but in practice... there are always hidden/blank sections in the guidance that are restricted in the published document and we cannot see. I am wondering if there is further information on wether they sometimes can simply... not do anything with repeat applications, not grant, not cancel; just treat the application as void? It says "If you grant pre settled status" not 'when you grant pre-Settled status", which suggests not all repeat applications result in repeat pre-settled status.

I would say, you lose nothing by just trying.

Another separate question: Would he have to do biometrics again for any further applications? (Settled status, naturalisation, etc.) He had to do them for the pre-settled status (and separately for his Tier 2).

I would think no. Biometrics is needed for when you need a physical card. The EU Settled status itself is digital; biometrics were needed in his case because he is non-EU and did not have a card under the EUSS. But now that he has a card, it should not get replaced, and thus he should not need to do biometrics again.

I didn't really want to wait an extra 4 years to apply for naturalisation so

True that 4 years is a long time to wait, but just so it's clear, apart from being able to vote on general elections (which, granted, might be a valid motivation) there aren't any substantial advantages of life in the UK between being a British citizen and just having Settled Status.

I'm trying to understand the trade-off here of how hard is Lounes? Is it just more work to fill out the paper and a longer wait time? But it's not more or less likely to be granted than settled status?

Unfortunately we don't have comprehensive timelines to tell how much longer a Lounes application takes compared to a regular one. We just know that you cannot apply online, but instead you need use a paper form that you have to request by phone, and it will be pre-filled for you with your details, so you can imagine how that in itself adds much more room for error and delay (I imagine you have seen this post).

The issue with Lounes is not about likelihood it's about it just being unnecessarily cumbersome. Then again, if we are talking 4 years, then... that might justify it.

His pre-settled status took 7 months to be granted after application (it got refused initially thanks to the case-worker's fault - the administrative review we requested and/or our MP chasing got it approved quickly). So at the same time, you say "you lose nothing by just trying" which I agree in theory but what if we had another caseworker who wrongly declined it again and we went through the stress of the administrative review again? Though I'd guess this would be pretty unlikely given he's already been granted it and nothing's changed in a few months / nor should it for the next few years. But maybe it is best to apply on 4 May 2027 like you say (surely 3 May 2027 should be OK as well, though?)

About the biometrics, yes, that makes sense. As he had to get biometrics separately for all his previous visas (Tier 2, and before that Tier 5) but I guess as they are separate visa types entirely as well as from EUSS like you say. His card expires on 31 December 2024 (as apparently all do now as they're looking to phase out the cards and use online only) even though he has PSS until 3 May 2027. I thought biometrics might have to be done separately for his eventual British passport application though.

Yes, 4 years is a big difference indeed. Thanks for sharing the link to the other topic, I did read it and totally understood it not being worth it for 9 months but for 4 years, I think it might be if I want it sooner. I suppose I again just worry that the laws could change in 4 years time and maybe Lounes will go away and then he won't be able to apply for settled status as a family member of mine... it's not very inspiring that they're not putting an online version. (Though I suppose any laws could change at any time no matter what, couldn't they?)

Also, Lounes worries me even more when it comes to the application side of things for my partner given the 5 year expiry - with online, you apply on 4 May 2022 and the application is received 4 May 2022. With the Lounes one where you have to mail it in... well, I suppose you could use Royal Mail delivery by 9am guaranteed and have it signed for for some reassurance, right?

It's also annoying how we don't have a blank copy of Lounes because they're all pre-filled, would like to see what it looks like! Understand it's cumbersome which is annoying but I'd say my partner's pre-settled status process was cumbersome too and... we survived!