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Use this section for queries concerning applications on any of the EEA series of forms, and also for applications for EEA Family Permits.

Moderators: Casa, push, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, Zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe

EUsmileWEallsmile
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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:37 pm

EEA1 and EEA3 are not mandatory. Technically, EEA2 and EEA4 are not, but in practice, it could be argued that they are - no right to work, no right to travel, etc.

What document might be considered to be equivalent, passport perhaps?

In my opinion, any fee charged will in no way affect the timeliness of the application.

Jambo
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Post by Jambo » Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:56 pm

Jambo wrote:
frei wrote: Found a link for the whole document here http://www.emnnorway.no/EMN-Media-Archi ... ly-permits
Interesting. Seems like the UKBA were doing some research 4 months ago in preparation to start charging for residence documentation under EEA regulation.
Also it seems that the UK is seeking to issue to a biometric card to EEA applicant. Maybe they will argue the fee is to cover that cost (but then there is no equivalent card for Brits).

sheraz7
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Post by sheraz7 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:02 pm

Also it seems that the UK is seeking to issue to a biometric card to EEA applicant. Maybe they will argue the fee is to cover that cost (but then there is no equivalent card for Brits).


Yes I agree with the Jambo. Its more likely possible to happen this.
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nidaulhaque
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Post by nidaulhaque » Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:19 am

Jambo wrote:
frei wrote: Found a link for the whole document here http://www.emnnorway.no/EMN-Media-Archi ... ly-permits
Interesting. Seems like the UKBA were doing some research 4 months ago in preparation to start charging for residence documentation under EEA regulation.
Yes here is the link

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013 ... n-id-cards

Jambo
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Post by Jambo » Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:33 am

OK.

So in order to be able to control the influx of Romanians/Bulgarians the DM is warning us all about, they would start charging money from everyone. Interesting.

And I agree, it will have no affect on the process time.

fysicus
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Post by fysicus » Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:26 am

nidaulhaque wrote:Yes here is the link

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013 ... n-id-cards
Politicians are rarely appointed on the basis of skills and expertise, and mr Harper goes to great lengths to prove he is no exception to the rule.

All measures he wants to impose on EU nationals are illegal, unless they are also imposed on British nationals.

For example:
The idea was first raised by Philip Hollobone, the Conservative MP for Kettering, who claimed the Spanish already "interpret the free movement directive much more robustly" by requiring all European Union citizens and family members to register if they want to live there for more than three months. They also require notification of any change in address or marital status.
I don't now the details about Spain, but in the Netherlands there is the GBA (Common Population Register) and everybody (regardless of nationality or status) living in the Netherlands has to be registered in there, and any change in the registered details (such as address) has to be reported within 5 days. In essence this system was introduced by Napoleon, and so it exists in most countries that were under Napoleontic occupation.
In the UK there is nothing like that, and therefore it cannot be imposed on EU nationals either. It has nothing to do with a robust interpretation of free movement; it is simply about treating EU nationals as your own citizens.

EUsmileWEallsmile
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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:28 am

EUsmileWEallsmile wrote: In my opinion, any fee charged will in no way affect the timeliness of the application.
I'd changed my stance on this slightly. What I'd meant was that a fee won't help expedite applications. We are dealing with bureaucracy - requirements are met or they are not.

If anything fee is likely to increase times as it must be processed, checked etc.

EUsmileWEallsmile
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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:34 am

fysicus wrote:
nidaulhaque wrote:Yes here is the link

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013 ... n-id-cards
Politicians are rarely appointed on the basis of skills and expertise, and mr Harper goes to great lengths to prove he is no exception to the rule.

All measures he wants to impose on EU nationals are illegal, unless they are also imposed on British nationals.

For example:
The idea was first raised by Philip Hollobone, the Conservative MP for Kettering, who claimed the Spanish already "interpret the free movement directive much more robustly" by requiring all European Union citizens and family members to register if they want to live there for more than three months. They also require notification of any change in address or marital status.
I don't now the details about Spain, but in the Netherlands there is the GBA (Common Population Register) and everybody (regardless of nationality or status) living in the Netherlands has to be registered in there, and any change in the registered details (such as address) has to be reported within 5 days. In essence this system was introduced by Napoleon, and so it exists in most countries that were under Napoleontic occupation.
In the UK there is nothing like that, and therefore it cannot be imposed on EU nationals either. It has nothing to do with a robust interpretation of free movement; it is simply about treating EU nationals as your own citizens.
I understand that the UK could make residence certificates and cards mandatory right now if it wished (post 3 months' residence). The directive allows this. What they can't do is insist that the card are carried around as there is no equivalent provision for UK nationals.

fysicus
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Post by fysicus » Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:44 am

EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:I understand that the UK could make residence certificates and cards mandatory right now if it wished (post 3 months' residence). The directive allows this. What they can't do is insist that the card are carried around as there is no equivalent provision for UK nationals.
Yes, but because of the lack of a UK equivalent they cannot charge for it!

And I also think UKBA does not have the resources to cope with the many extra applications if Residence Certificates, etc. were made mandatory.

EUsmileWEallsmile
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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:47 am

fysicus wrote:
EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:I understand that the UK could make residence certificates and cards mandatory right now if it wished (post 3 months' residence). The directive allows this. What they can't do is insist that the card are carried around as there is no equivalent provision for UK nationals.
Yes, but because of the lack of a UK equivalent they cannot charge for it!
I would love to know the basis for charging for the documentation. My guess and it's only a guess is a passport, but it's stretching imagination.

fysicus
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Post by fysicus » Tue Feb 26, 2013 8:56 am

So would I and therefore I wrote to my MP about this, suggesting to ask the minister for a clarification.

I really can't see a passport qualify as a "similar document", residence certificates/cards are in addition to a passport (or ID-card) but do not replace it. And a Brit is not required to have a passport, as long as you don't want to travel abroad.

EUsmileWEallsmile
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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:13 am

It might be that as the residence documentation is theoretically optional, you can chose to pay the fee or not. Similarly, one can chose to apply for a passport or not.

(In practice of course, it's not really optional for non-EU family members, due to the great inconvenience that would be caused in not having residence documentation).

In any case, I don't know the answer and am just speculating.

fysicus
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Post by fysicus » Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:33 am

Optional or not is not relevant.
Article 25.2 of Directive 2004/38 simply says free of charge or at most the fee for similar documents for British citizens.

vinny
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Post by vinny » Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:50 am

Please continue in previous thread.
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