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Renouncing British Citizenship to use EEA FP route

Use this section for queries concerning applications on any of the EEA series of forms, and also for applications for EEA Family Permits.

Moderators: Casa, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, Zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, push

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ShrewsburyMark
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Renouncing British Citizenship to use EEA FP route

Post by ShrewsburyMark » Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:13 pm

My non EEA spouse is in the UK on a fiance visa but we are unable to get an FLR (M) premium appointment before it expires and cannot be without passports for the 6 months that postal applications are taking or indeed the 3 months that a spouse visa would take form outside UK.

I have dual British / Irish citizenship (but have lived in UK all my life) and am considering renouncing British citizenship so that my wife can return to her country of origin and apply for a EEA FP.

Any comments on this course if action welcomed...

tanabrennan
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Post by tanabrennan » Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:32 pm

Which part of the UK are you Living and were you born an irish?

ShrewsburyMark
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Post by ShrewsburyMark » Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:39 pm

Living in Shrewsbury, born in London. Acquired Irish passport in 2011 but was eligible since birth as mother is Irish[/i]

tanabrennan
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Post by tanabrennan » Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:46 pm

ShrewsburyMark wrote:Living in Shrewsbury, born in London. Acquired Irish passport in 2011 but was eligible since birth as mother is Irish[/i]
Same as McCarthy.

Are you a worker in the Uk right now? or is there anything that can stop you from relocating to another EU country like Ireland?

It would have been stronger is you were born Irish not through eligibility. You have to first understand the rules before renouncing. Knowing more about your situation can help give advice, It will be waist to money and time for your spouse to go back to home country and you know UKBA, they can keep your spouse there for the nest 3yrs while fighting legal battles.

EUsmileWEallsmile
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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:20 pm

tanabrennan wrote: It would have been stronger is you were born Irish not through eligibility.
This person was born Irish.

EUsmileWEallsmile
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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:21 pm

ShrewsburyMark wrote:Living in Shrewsbury, born in London. Acquired Irish passport in 2011 but was eligible since birth as mother is Irish[/i]
As your mother was Irish, you are Irish automatically, irrespective as to where you were born. Your children would be another story.

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Re: Renouncing British Citizenship to use EEA FP route

Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:23 pm

ShrewsburyMark wrote: I have dual British / Irish citizenship (but have lived in UK all my life) and am considering renouncing British citizenship so that my wife can return to her country of origin and apply for a EEA FP.
This would be a hugely radical step. Do you understand the implications for you? Are you sure that this will actually help your situation?

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Re: Renouncing British Citizenship to use EEA FP route

Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:26 pm

ShrewsburyMark wrote:My non EEA spouse... so that my wife can return to her country of origin and apply for a EEA FP.
In general, this would not be necessary. There is no obligation to return to country of origin for this type of application.

tanabrennan
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Post by tanabrennan » Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:53 pm

EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:
tanabrennan wrote: It would have been stronger is you were born Irish not through eligibility.
This person was born Irish.
I mean if the Op is Irish Himself not eligible to be an Irish because her mother was an Irish. Birth Certificate will not show Born in Ireland but England. If my Cirtificate show i was born in Ireland, i will not need my Mother Certificate to get an Irish Passport, i will not need to explain how and why i am an Irish but Op will have to show how he is an Irish before an irish passport can be issued to him. unlike someone that the birth certificate show one of the county of ireland.

Then OP was not a direct born Irish like his mother, he was an Irish by decent.

tanabrennan
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Post by tanabrennan » Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:13 pm

Before in Ireland and UK, if you are born here, you are automatically an Irish in Ireland and British in UK.
As years go by, UK change the law in early 80s and in the 90's Irish change the law, but if you were born before those law were changed you are automatically their citizen.
Now:
1. You MAY be entitled to Irish citizenship if your parent(s) or grandparents were Irish.
2. You may be entitled to Irish citizenship if you were born outside of Ireland, but you may need to register your birth.

I will not argue, but I don’t like when someone thinks I am a twit.

If OP was born in Ireland and renounce his British Citizen, as he stated he has never moved, he will have a very strong ground, but with the situation ahead, he will need to fight a very long legal battle with this case because HO will argue he only renounced because of immigration purpose but at the end, OP may win.

Is this worth fighting for, if OP can easily relocate with his spouse to Ireland as an Irish citizen that has exercise treaty right in another EU country and coming back home Or fight a 5yrs battle to the ECJ.

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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:34 am

tanabrennan wrote:
I mean if the Op is Irish Himself not eligible to be an Irish because her mother was an Irish. Birth Certificate will not show Born in Ireland but England. If my Cirtificate show i was born in Ireland, i will not need my Mother Certificate to get an Irish Passport, i will not need to explain how and why i am an Irish but Op will have to show how he is an Irish before an irish passport can be issued to him. unlike someone that the birth certificate show one of the county of ireland.

Then OP was not a direct born Irish like his mother, he was an Irish by decent.
I understand that you meant to say born on the island of Ireland. A person born abroad to an Irish citizen born in Ireland is Irish automatically.

ShrewsburyMark
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Post by ShrewsburyMark » Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:31 am

Thank you for your comments, it may seem like a radical step but I think that in practice an Irish passport gives me the same rights in UK as my british one, I can still vote, run my business etc.

I would like to pick up on the comment that they might refuse because I renounced for immigration purposes only. My understanding is that there are very limited grounds for refusal and the main points that we need to show can be demonstarted clearly:

1) I will be an EEA national without dual UK citizenship
2) I am excercising treaty rights by living and working in UK
3) My wife and I are legally married and can prove's it not a marriage of convenience.

In addition I can also show (although not required under the directive but UKBA ask to see): Substantial income in UK and large house for accomodation.

We are going this route because it seems to offer speed and certainty, if they could refuse then that might change my thinking.

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Post by Greenie » Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:50 am

It can take up to 6 months to be issued an Eea residence card so if speed is the issue then i am not sure this is the solution. When does your wife's fiance visa actually expire? You could send a certified copy of your passport with the FLR(m) application if you wished although your wife would need to send her original although she could request it back whilst the application is being considered as long as she doesn't need it to travel.

The other issue is the time it will take to be settled in the UK. As your wife falls under the old family immigration rules she will only need to wait two years before being able to apply for ilr, and after three years in the UK she can apply for citizenship (as long as she has ilr) if you go down the Eea regulations route she will need to wait 5 years before acquiring permanent residence and then a further year to apply for citizenship (given that she won't be married to a British citizen)

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Post by smalldog » Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:05 pm

I agree that there are no reasonable grounds for refusal if you choose this route, and I expect that quite a few people are considering it. However you should think long-term, say 50 years into the future. The EU is unlikely to exist in its current form, and no-one can predict what will happen to rights to free movement. Irish citizens will likely retain their special status in the UK though (or possibly some of the countries of the former UK).

ShrewsburyMark
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Post by ShrewsburyMark » Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:56 pm

Thanks Greenie, I am aware that the residence card takes up to 6 months but the initial EEA FP is issued quickly. Next year she can spend 4 - 6 months waiting but this year we need to travel back and forth every few weeks

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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:08 pm

ShrewsburyMark wrote:Thanks Greenie, I am aware that the residence card takes up to 6 months but the initial EEA FP is issued quickly. Next year she can spend 4 - 6 months waiting but this year we need to travel back and forth every few weeks
You may find that your family permit takes an inordinate amount of time as you would be doing something unusual.

I don't know how long it takes to renounce UK citizenship and what all the implications are. Do you?

It is possible for UK citizens to avail of the EU route if they work in another EU state first? Are you aware of this? (Important aside: given that you are Irish, Ireland might not count in your case).

ShrewsburyMark
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Post by ShrewsburyMark » Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:09 am

As far as I can tell an Irish citizen has all the rights of a UK citizen in the UK and this pre dates the EU, arising out of the partition of Ireland in 1926.

There is a fee of £250 and form to send in to renounce citizenship. They do not quote timescales but I would imagine there is less of a queue for this than other applications! I will tray and call them today to find out how long.

The point about an EEA FP application taking longer due to doing something unusal is a good one and this uncertainty attracts me to the idea of just turning up at a border with our documents and a copy of the directive and demanding (politely) that they issue us with a FP. They won't like it but they have to do it I believe.

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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:21 pm

ShrewsburyMark wrote: There is a fee of £250 and form to send in to renounce citizenship. They do not quote timescales but I would imagine there is less of a queue for this than other applications! I will tray and call them today to find out how long.
Think long and hard about this, but at the end of the day, the choice is yours.

ShrewsburyMark
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Post by ShrewsburyMark » Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:38 pm

Thanks, you are right it would be no help if they take 6 months to process renounciation.

Having discussed further my wife is prepared to wait 6 months in UK if need be so we will prob stick with FLR (M) route - have been advised on family forum that we have 28days grace after expiry of Fiance Visa

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Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:54 pm

ShrewsburyMark wrote:Thanks, you are right it would be no help if they take 6 months to process renounciation.

Having discussed further my wife is prepared to wait 6 months in UK if need be so we will prob stick with FLR (M) route - have been advised on family forum that we have 28days grace after expiry of Fiance Visa
Good for you both. Hope it all works out.

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