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Retaining Right of Residence following Divorce

Use this section for queries concerning applications on any of the EEA series of forms, and also for applications for EEA Family Permits.

Moderators: Casa, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, Zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, push

jude
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Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:39 am
Location: Reading

Post by jude » Sun Jan 03, 2010 7:14 pm

I was married for 4 years plus. As I mentioned no need to sent the document when they have not asked , but is still ok . Ask any question you want to .
hallo

nanaaddo80
Junior Member
Posts: 77
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 7:22 pm
Location: North London

Retain Rights

Post by nanaaddo80 » Sun Jan 03, 2010 7:40 pm

Hi Jude,
Thanks for the reply
I quess things have changed after your application.Anyway, I was married for exactly six(6)years before divorce.(dec 2003-dec 2009), I bet this is quite different since they may want to know what my ex wife was doing throughout the marriage.
Moreso,i did not send any EEA4 form as you imply, I just wrote to them with the required docs.
Thanks

vegeta_2009
Member
Posts: 111
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:26 pm

Post by vegeta_2009 » Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:34 pm

jude wrote:I was married for 4 years plus. As I mentioned no need to sent the document when they have not asked , but is still ok . Ask any question you want to .
Jude, did you go through retention of right yourself? it seems like a minefield to me and it is open to abuse (what if the spouse doesnt want to cooperate after divorce have initiated? )

Datuchi and Obie were really helpfull regarding this matter, if you want to add anything that we might lookout for let us know.

regards

irakra
Junior Member
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:32 pm
Location: london

Post by irakra » Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:04 pm

Hi guys!!!

I am in the same situation, and I actually informed HO of my divorce by a letter and a copy of decree absolute in May 2009 and never heard from them ever since, so there is chance they just ignored me. Anyway I am going to apply for a certificate of approval and get married with my British partner, so I think that will trigger the whole process, they will definately ask me for a proof of my ex excercising treaty rights and so on, but we'll see. Anyway just wanted to share my views.

Good luck!!!!!

vegeta_2009
Member
Posts: 111
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:26 pm

Post by vegeta_2009 » Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:26 pm

irakra wrote:Hi guys!!!

I am in the same situation, and I actually informed HO of my divorce by a letter and a copy of decree absolute in May 2009 and never heard from them ever since, so there is chance they just ignored me. Anyway I am going to apply for a certificate of approval and get married with my British partner, so I think that will trigger the whole process, they will definately ask me for a proof of my ex excercising treaty rights and so on, but we'll see. Anyway just wanted to share my views.

Good luck!!!!!
thanks for keeping us updated irakra, can i ask who advised you to apply with just a letter and a copy of the decree absolute?

jude
Junior Member
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:39 am
Location: Reading

Post by jude » Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:30 pm

Good thinking irakra. When you apply for COA marraige , HO would ask you to sent proof of ur X working at the time of divorce and proof that you are working as well and if you have all this proof they would issue you the COA of marraige .
hallo

jude
Junior Member
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:39 am
Location: Reading

Post by jude » Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:39 pm

Vegeta if ur X sopuse doesnt want to cooperate then you are in trouble because they is nothing the HO can do. It is also stated that if you can hired private paylo which are based in liverpool and working under HO can help you as long your X is still working in uk. They have the right to go to ur X spouse company/ or can check through their NI . I assume john know about this . Sorry about my english
vegeta_2009 wrote:
jude wrote:I was married for 4 years plus. As I mentioned no need to sent the document when they have not asked , but is still ok . Ask any question you want to .
Jude, did you go through retention of right yourself? it seems like a minefield to me and it is open to abuse (what if the spouse doesnt want to cooperate after divorce have initiated? )

Datuchi and Obie were really helpfull regarding this matter, if you want to add anything that we might lookout for let us know.

regards
hallo

vegeta_2009
Member
Posts: 111
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:26 pm

Post by vegeta_2009 » Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:50 pm

jude wrote:private paylo which are based in liverpool and working under HO can help you as long your X is still working in uk. They have the right to go to ur X spouse company/ or can check through their NI . I assume john know about this ]
thanks jude, just to clarify, who is john and what is paylo?

irakra
Junior Member
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:32 pm
Location: london

Post by irakra » Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:40 pm

Hi!!1

Actually HO advisors told me on the phone to do that, so I did informed HO by the letter like I said, I was actually surprised they didn't reply. Maybe they did, but I changed my address about 2 months ago. Anyway I called HO then, asking why nobody replied, and they said that they wouldn't and I should wait till my current RC expires, which is 2012 and is quite a while, so I definately will apply for COA in the next couple of months and then they will ask me to send everything, I just wonder how it goes, if you apply for COA the office is in Durham, and retention of rights people are located in Liverpool, so how is that gonna work? I would send my passport with COA to Durham and what next, they would get in touch with Liverpool and they would contact me but normally they would need my passport as well which would be in Durham, DON'T KNOW.

Wait and see......

jude
Junior Member
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:39 am
Location: Reading

Post by jude » Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:11 pm

Irakra , if I were you I would first apply for my rentation right with out my passport just a coving letter and the divorce certificate. After 2 weeks apply for the COA marraige with you/your spouse passport. I would not sent mt passport for rentation because they may not sent it to you .
hallo

datuchi
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Posts: 225
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:42 pm
Location: NW London

Post by datuchi » Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:53 pm

Have you tried to give notice of marriage already? You might not be asked to provide COA, since you are technically allowed Business Activities and retained your right of residence, you should be able to get married without COA.

Why don't you try to give notice to the Registrar to marry first? They should not ask you for COA.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visit ... fapproval/

Again, you are technically not a family member of an EEA national because you divorced the very EEA member. The highlighted bit refers to those non-EEA people who are here on as extended family members etc, who also have EEA2 cards, BUT the Registrar does not necessarily know that. All they know is the rules they are given. Try different ones.


"The rules on certificate of approval do not apply to you if you:

* are a British citizen; or
* are a national of a country in the European Economic Area (EEA); or
* are the family member of an EEA national and have right of residence in the United Kingdom but are not yourself an EEA national; or
* have in your passport a certificate of entitlement giving you right of abode in the United Kingdom; or
* are not subject to immigration control.


irakra wrote:Hi!!1

Actually HO advisors told me on the phone to do that, so I did informed HO by the letter like I said, I was actually surprised they didn't reply. Maybe they did, but I changed my address about 2 months ago. Anyway I called HO then, asking why nobody replied, and they said that they wouldn't and I should wait till my current RC expires, which is 2012 and is quite a while, so I definately will apply for COA in the next couple of months and then they will ask me to send everything, I just wonder how it goes, if you apply for COA the office is in Durham, and retention of rights people are located in Liverpool, so how is that gonna work? I would send my passport with COA to Durham and what next, they would get in touch with Liverpool and they would contact me but normally they would need my passport as well which would be in Durham, DON'T KNOW.

Wait and see......
None of the advice/opinion is expressed with the view of assuming responsibility as to its accuracy. Anyone intending to rely on any advice/opinion should seek independent legal advice before acting upon it.

irakra
Junior Member
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:32 pm
Location: london

Post by irakra » Wed Jan 06, 2010 5:01 pm

Thanks,
I appreciate you advice...But I am not an EEA family member anymore. Even if I retain my rights. I already called HO, and they told me I need a COA. even if they don't know at the registry office and my mariage happens without COA, later in the eyes of HO it could be viewed as an illegal marriage or something... I know for sure that I need COA, Swan was in the same situation, don't know if you read her thread. I just want to apply for COA, get married, and then apply for 2 year spousal visa, even if I retain my rights of residence, because if I don't apply for a spousal visa I would have to go through the same nightmare again when applying for PR 2 yeras later (it would be 5 in the UK for me) I would again need my ex's documents and the rest. Or I would have to wait for another 5 years and apply for PR in my own right i meen without ex's proof of employment for the first 3 years, prooving that I was working all these time, which is nonsence, because it would make me dependant on my employment.

regards,

P.S. Jude what do you mean by "apply for retention of rights without your passport"? In that case I already "applied" like I mentioned before when I said I already informed HO of my divorce and they didn't respond!!!

jude
Junior Member
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:39 am
Location: Reading

Post by jude » Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:04 pm

Sorry inakra, i don't know that you have already applied for Ren of rights. What I mean was if you are applying to retain your rights do not sent your passport to HO because they might not sent it to you back when you need it . If you apply for the COA (marraige) HO would ask you to sent proof of ur X spouse treaty rights at the start of divorce and end and proof that you are either working , study , self suff person and if you provide them this document they would issue you the COA but if you are unable to provide it your resident stay would be revolk/cancel , so please know how you are playing your game. Hope that helps. If you have the proof then go for it if not don't try , you would be in problem.

I appreciate you advice...But I am not an EEA family member anymore. Even if I retain my rights. I already called HO, and they told me I need a COA. even if they don't know at the registry office and my mariage happens without COA, later in the eyes of HO it could be viewed as an illegal marriage or something... I know for sure that I need COA, Swan was in the same situation, don't know if you read her thread. I just want to apply for COA, get married, and then apply for 2 year spousal visa, even if I retain my rights of residence, because if I don't apply for a spousal visa I would have to go through the same nightmare again when applying for PR 2 yeras later (it would be 5 in the UK for me) I would again need my ex's documents and the rest. Or I would have to wait for another 5 years and apply for PR in my own right i meen without ex's proof of employment for the first 3 years, prooving that I was working all these time, which is nonsence, because it would make me dependant on my employment.

regards,

P.S. Jude what do you mean by "apply for retention of rights without your passport"? In that case I already "applied" like I mentioned before when I said I already info
hallo

irakra
Junior Member
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:32 pm
Location: london

Post by irakra » Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:08 pm

Hi, Jude

I will have to go through the process anyway either now or at the end of my RC.

Do you mind me asking where you sent proof of your ex's excercising treaty rights to Durham or Liverpool? Please, let me know. That would make the picture clearer.

regards

jude
Junior Member
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:39 am
Location: Reading

Post by jude » Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:12 pm

Liverpool
hallo

datuchi
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Location: NW London

Post by datuchi » Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:23 pm

Irakra, if you are afraid that the HO would view your marriage without COA as illegal, you are not right. You automatically retain your right of residence, which means that you are eligible to get married without COA on the same basis as if you wanted to work or remain in the UK at the moment. Otherwise from what you are saying, you are not legally in the UK? If you are, then get married etc.

Finally, when you apply for PR, you will not be applying on the basis of your marriage, but retention of your rights. Moreover, if you decide to get married and go through the National route, the rules will change in July 2011, and it is also going to be long for you etc, you will need 3 and not 2 years, as ILR will not exist anymore by the time you decide to finish your 2 year marriage. My advice is for you to stick to your EEA route.



irakra wrote:Thanks,
I appreciate you advice...But I am not an EEA family member anymore. Even if I retain my rights. I already called HO, and they told me I need a COA. even if they don't know at the registry office and my mariage happens without COA, later in the eyes of HO it could be viewed as an illegal marriage or something... I know for sure that I need COA, Swan was in the same situation, don't know if you read her thread. I just want to apply for COA, get married, and then apply for 2 year spousal visa, even if I retain my rights of residence, because if I don't apply for a spousal visa I would have to go through the same nightmare again when applying for PR 2 yeras later (it would be 5 in the UK for me) I would again need my ex's documents and the rest. Or I would have to wait for another 5 years and apply for PR in my own right i meen without ex's proof of employment for the first 3 years, prooving that I was working all these time, which is nonsence, because it would make me dependant on my employment.

regards,

P.S. Jude what do you mean by "apply for retention of rights without your passport"? In that case I already "applied" like I mentioned before when I said I already informed HO of my divorce and they didn't respond!!!
None of the advice/opinion is expressed with the view of assuming responsibility as to its accuracy. Anyone intending to rely on any advice/opinion should seek independent legal advice before acting upon it.

cabarete
Newbie
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:19 am

it is still not clear to me

Post by cabarete » Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:42 am

Hello guys, i have a few questions regarding this same subject:

my situation is very similar.

i've retained my right of residence and i would like to update my visa so it reflects that. My current visa expires in 2012, i would have been 5 years in the uk by then, i did send them a letter the next day i got divorced, no reply.

- is it really worth it updating the visa or should i wait until 2012, and then apply for ILR? or will it be a nightmare to apply for ILR?

- also, to prove that my ex was exercising her right to be here is a council tax bill and her payslip from the time of the divorce enough to prove it?


i'm in the process of collecting all the documents and send everything to the home office (including my passport).

i'm just concerned that i will be embarking in a very long process and that at the end of 2011 i ill need to start it all over again. so why bother now?

please advise.

Thanks!

vegeta_2009
Member
Posts: 111
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:26 pm

Re: it is still not clear to me

Post by vegeta_2009 » Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:49 am

cabarete wrote:Hello guys, i have a few questions regarding this same subject:

my situation is very similar.

i've retained my right of residence and i would like to update my visa so it reflects that. My current visa expires in 2012, i would have been 5 years in the uk by then, i did send them a letter the next day i got divorced, no reply.

- is it really worth it updating the visa or should i wait until 2012, and then apply for ILR? or will it be a nightmare to apply for ILR?

- also, to prove that my ex was exercising her right to be here is a council tax bill and her payslip from the time of the divorce enough to prove it?


i'm in the process of collecting all the documents and send everything to the home office (including my passport).

i'm just concerned that i will be embarking in a very long process and that at the end of 2011 i ill need to start it all over again. so why bother now?

please advise.

Thanks!
when was it that you sent the letter? it usually takes them 2-3 months to reply to any kind of request.

you're saying that you are collecting documents to be sent, do you know how you are going to apply? or is it just a covering letter with the proper documents you are sending?

it would be much better to do it now rather than 2 year later, you never know what else might you need or what other documents that you have to prove.

jude
Junior Member
Posts: 95
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:39 am
Location: Reading

Post by jude » Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:04 pm

Datuchi are you an immmigration lawyer? And who told you that Irakra does not need COA of marriage? The only people that, they don't need COA are PR,EEA, and Bri holder.


Irakra, if you are afraid that the HO would view your marriage without COA as illegal, you are not right. You automatically retain your right of residence, which means that you are eligible to get married without COA on the same basis as if you wanted to work or remain in the UK at the moment. Otherwise from what you are saying, you are not legally in the UK? If you are, then get married etc.

Finally, when you apply for PR, you will not be applying on the basis of your marriage, but retention of your rights. Moreover, if you decide to get married and go through the National route, the rules will change in July 2011, and it is also going to be long for you etc, you will need 3 and not 2 years, as ILR will not exist anymore by the time you decide to finish your 2 year marriage. My advice is for you to stick to your EEA route.



irakra wrote:Thanks,
I appreciate you advice...But I am not an EEA family member anymore. Even if I retain my rights. I already called HO, and they told me I need a COA. even if they don't know at the registry office and my mariage happens without COA, later in the eyes of HO it could be viewed as an illegal marriage or something... I know for sure that I need COA, Swan was in the same situation, don't know if you read her thread. I just want to apply for COA, get married, and then apply for 2 year spousal visa, even if I retain my rights of residence, because if I don't apply for a spousal visa I would have to go through the same nightmare again when applying for PR 2 yeras later (it would be 5 in the UK for me) I would again need my ex's documents and the rest. Or I would have to wait for another 5 years and apply for PR in my own right i meen without ex's proof of employment for the first 3 years, prooving that I was working all these time, which is nonsence, because it would make me dependant on my employment.

regards,

P.S. Jude what do you mean by "apply for retention of rights without your passport"? In that case I already "applied" like I mentioned before when I said I already informed HO of my divorce and they didn't respond!!!
[/quote]
hallo

cabarete
Newbie
Posts: 38
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:19 am

Re: it is still not clear to me

Post by cabarete » Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:55 am

vegeta_2009 wrote:
when was it that you sent the letter? it usually takes them 2-3 months to reply to any kind of request.

you're saying that you are collecting documents to be sent, do you know how you are going to apply? or is it just a covering letter with the proper documents you are sending?

it would be much better to do it now rather than 2 year later, you never know what else might you need or what other documents that you have to prove.
I sent them a letter in 2008, just letting them know, no reply.

I will reapply with the EEA 2 form, will send a covering letter explaining what happened and the fact that i'm applying to retain the right of residence. then i will add my ex's payslips from the time and whatever else they ask for.

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