ESC

Click the "allow" button if you want to receive important news and updates from immigrationboards.com


Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Welcome to immigrationboards.com!

Login Register Do not show

Retaining Right of Residence following Divorce

Use this section for queries concerning applications on any of the EEA series of forms, and also for applications for EEA Family Permits.

Moderators: Casa, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, Zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, push

Locked
Trent
Newbie
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:58 pm

Post by Trent » Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:02 pm

inwarsaw wrote:So you are telling me you fall in love, you get married, stay for 4-5 years,
your circumstances change AFTER your immigration status is safe and then divorce. Thats very convenient isn't it ??
You can look at it cynically or you can realise that sometimes it just happens that way. There are also cases where there is a progressive wearing down of the relationship over a longer period of time. And also, I hope, many more that continue to function well all the way to the end.
inwarsaw wrote:You are talking loud about relationships but you are forgetting a thing called commitment, without which no relationship can work.
Yes, absolutely. And I agree with you that there are marriages that lack commitment and there are frivolous divorces. But in those cases where there was a genuine commitment and despite that, it truely did not work, they have to be able to seperate and retain their rights without being accused of trying to take advantage no? Surely you cannot argue with that?

Rest assured the government is doing all in its power to prevent people trying to take advantage.
inwarsaw wrote:Its a different question though whether you are committed to the person or to the EU passport.
Yes, I understand your point, and I understand that a small minority of applicants have arranged marriages of convenience. Do you understand that there are cases where there is no foul play and that you cannot distinguish them from where you are now? You can't accuse people without proof. It's offensive.

datuchi
BANNED
Posts: 225
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:42 pm
Location: NW London

Post by datuchi » Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:56 pm

+1!!!

Inwarsaw, if you had a forum named "anti-immigration" then your thoughts would probably be welcome, but this is not the place to prophesise your ignorant views. If one listens to you, then there simply can't be genuine break ups within 3-5 years of marriage? They must either end within the first month, or long after acquiring PR? Or, to avoid your nasty comments, everyone should probably pm you proof of sincerity and after clearing your "immigration control" may they post on this forum?

Yes, maybe ONE OF the factors of staying an extra year with someone IS to be able to secure the right, however, this doesn't mean the intention had been there before the marriage! You simply cannot accuse decent people of anything without solid grounds. It's the same as me accusing you of something when you have a genuine problem, WITHOUT ANY PROOF.

The issue with the couples nowadays is that even when they buy property... noone thinks about how, if at all they would split it if, god forbid, there is a break-up. But, the land registration form clearly envisages this and asks those people buying jointly to state whether they wish to be entered as 50-50 or according to each other's contribution.

Now, imagine that a husband says: "I don't intend to divorce, I love my wife, BUT just in case- enter 70%-30% ". Clearly this would sour the relationship.

Same with the immigration. Many people get married for money, others for good private/night life, and there are people who take into consideration the immigration status or cooking skills etc. Everyone's marriage then is a marriage of convenience, there is no such thing as blind love. You love someone for CONVENIENCE whichever form it takes.

The legislators have envisaged the situation where marriages would break
down and how to deal with those people. What makes you think they hadn't thought it through, but you are the smart-mule who caught cheating little immigrants out and think everyone around you is dumb?

I will repeat this again, I got a slap on the wrist for telling you off before, but as this thread shows, you deserved every single phrase and word I called you and I'd repeat them but for the fear of being banned.

Archigabe and other moderators are like police, who rarely display common sense. If there is a swearing word then they will act, if it's indirect slender, it's ok- it's freedom of speech...

Let me tell you about freedom of speech briefly- why do you think people go to jail for exercising this freedom of speech in the form of "inciting facial hatred"? Because there is a flipping limit to it! You can't cover up behind this freedom as everyone is responsible for their words and actions.
My telling you to shut your mouth is the same "freedom of expression" as yours to accuse people of being cheats, however, I have grounds and reasons backed by proof of your insolence, whereas you ain't got jack to support your presumptions.

As I told you in previous posts, either keep quiet or help people with advice through whatever experience you have attained. If you were a decent person, you would admit that you are in the wrong and probably would gain respect from everyone by doing so, rather than trying to protect your dim view.

And if not, then I think without the moderators support I cannot prevent you from posting whatever nonsense you wish, so as benifa said, it's getting tiresome...

Trent wrote:
inwarsaw wrote:So you are telling me you fall in love, you get married, stay for 4-5 years,
your circumstances change AFTER your immigration status is safe and then divorce. Thats very convenient isn't it ??
You can look at it cynically or you can realise that sometimes it just happens that way. There are also cases where there is a progressive wearing down of the relationship over a longer period of time. And also, I hope, many more that continue to function well all the way to the end.
inwarsaw wrote:You are talking loud about relationships but you are forgetting a thing called commitment, without which no relationship can work.
Yes, absolutely. And I agree with you that there are marriages that lack commitment and there are frivolous divorces. But in those cases where there was a genuine commitment and despite that, it truely did not work, they have to be able to seperate and retain their rights without being accused of trying to take advantage no? Surely you cannot argue with that?

Rest assured the government is doing all in its power to prevent people trying to take advantage.
inwarsaw wrote:Its a different question though whether you are committed to the person or to the EU passport.
Yes, I understand your point, and I understand that a small minority of applicants have arranged marriages of convenience. Do you understand that there are cases where there is no foul play and that you cannot distinguish them from where you are now? You can't accuse people without proof. It's offensive.
None of the advice/opinion is expressed with the view of assuming responsibility as to its accuracy. Anyone intending to rely on any advice/opinion should seek independent legal advice before acting upon it.

Pakhtoon
- thin ice -
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:57 am
Location: Warsaw, Poland

Post by Pakhtoon » Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:46 pm

datuchi wrote:
Inwarsaw, if you had a forum named "anti-immigration" then your thoughts would probably be welcome, but this is not the place to prophesise your ignorant views.
I am an immigrant myself so your calling me anti-immigrant is rather hilarious.
You can call my views ignorant if you wish, thats your freedom of speech.
datuchi wrote: If one listens to you, then there simply can't be genuine break ups within 3-5 years of marriage? They must either end within the first month, or long after acquiring PR?
I am not talking about marriage, I am talking about marriage of convenience which is a fraud and utterly disgusting. Marriages do break, more often here in the west since its rather a part of this culture, no problem with that. The problem is with using a poor soul, ruining her life to achieve the pathetic objective of securing a damn EU passport.
datuchi wrote: Or, to avoid your nasty comments, everyone should probably pm you proof of sincerity and after clearing your "immigration control" may they post on this forum?
Why not ? you can start by sending me your story first.
datuchi wrote:Yes, maybe ONE OF the factors of staying an extra year with someone IS to be able to secure the right, however, this doesn't mean the intention had been there before the marriage!
If I go to a bank for something, while being there I notice there is no security and I can get away with a bundle of cash and I actually do it, will the law spare me ? I didn't go to the bank with the intention of robbing it.


datuchi wrote: You simply cannot accuse decent people of anything without solid grounds. It's the same as me accusing you of something when you have a genuine problem, WITHOUT ANY PROOF.
I haven't accused anyone.
datuchi wrote:The issue with the couples nowadays is that even when they buy property... noone thinks about how, if at all they would split it if, god forbid, there is a break-up. But, the land registration form clearly envisages this and asks those people buying jointly to state whether they wish to be entered as 50-50 or according to each other's contribution.

Now, imagine that a husband says: "I don't intend to divorce, I love my wife, BUT just in case- enter 70%-30% ". Clearly this would sour the relationship.
....yawns
datuchi wrote:Same with the immigration. Many people get married for money, others for good private/night life, and there are people who take into consideration the immigration status or cooking skills etc. Everyone's marriage then is a marriage of convenience, there is no such thing as blind love. You love someone for CONVENIENCE whichever form it takes.
You conveniently forgot to mention EU passport as the reason for getting married.
datuchi wrote:The legislators have envisaged the situation where marriages would break
down and how to deal with those people. What makes you think they hadn't thought it through, but you are the smart-mule who caught cheating little immigrants out and think everyone around you is dumb?
Thats very kind of the legislators but I have to remind you again, such legislation is for marriages, not for marriages of convenience i.e. divorcing to take the benefit of the same legislation.
datuchi wrote: I will repeat this again, I got a slap on the wrist for telling you off before, but as this thread shows, you deserved every single phrase and word I called you and I'd repeat them but for the fear of being banned.
Glad to see you are being forced to stay civil.



datuchi wrote:Let me tell you about freedom of speech briefly- why do you think people go to jail for exercising this freedom of speech in the form of "inciting facial hatred"? Because there is a flipping limit to it!
You can't cover up behind this freedom as everyone is responsible for their words and actions.
Don't bring politics in here. Open a new thread for that if you want to discuss.

datuchi wrote:My telling you to shut your mouth is the same "freedom of expression" as yours to accuse people of being cheats,
Be my guest.

datuchi wrote:As I told you in previous posts, either keep quiet or help people with advice through whatever experience you have attained. If you were a decent person, you would admit that you are in the wrong and probably would gain respect from everyone by doing so, rather than trying to protect your dim view.
...yawns
datuchi wrote:And if not, then I think without the moderators support I cannot prevent you from posting whatever nonsense you wish, so as benifa said, it's getting tiresome...
...yawns

P.S Sincere Apologies to Benifa....
“Terrorism is the war of the poor; war is the terrorism of the rich.â€

datuchi
BANNED
Posts: 225
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:42 pm
Location: NW London

Post by datuchi » Wed Feb 10, 2010 6:17 pm

...Token: "You just don't get it!"
None of the advice/opinion is expressed with the view of assuming responsibility as to its accuracy. Anyone intending to rely on any advice/opinion should seek independent legal advice before acting upon it.

Pakhtoon
- thin ice -
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:57 am
Location: Warsaw, Poland

Post by Pakhtoon » Wed Feb 10, 2010 6:27 pm

datuchi wrote:...Token: "You just don't get it!"
Apologies. I respect your opinion but I have my own.
“Terrorism is the war of the poor; war is the terrorism of the rich.â€

dublin3
- thin ice -
Posts: 369
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:01 am
Location: ireland

Post by dublin3 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 7:50 pm

Inwarsaw could you explain that how your marriage to EU citizen is not sham?
Which proof have you got that your marriage to Polish girl is not for getting a passport? anything?
You can not say anything about tomorrow anything can happen.
For example if you find your partner cheating on you would you still live with her? If your answer is yes then you are trying to secure you Polish passport.
So everybody have their reasons.
The best thing to do for you is keep your self out from places where you do not belong.

Pakhtoon
- thin ice -
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:57 am
Location: Warsaw, Poland

Post by Pakhtoon » Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:23 pm

rebel82 wrote:Inwarsaw could you explain that how your marriage to EU citizen is not sham?
I appreciate your questions.

First because I didn't move nor am I dying to move my mule to the paradise i.e. UK and Ireland or anywhere else. I am living in Poland where my wife comes from. Not because I have to or because I can't move somewhere else, but because I married my wife to live with her, doesn't matter where.

Second, we had known each other for 7 years ( before Poland was in the EU ) and were a couple for 6 years before we got married.

Third, our marriage was not a 'bride, groom and two witnesses' type. It was a proper marriage with church ceremony, reception all the friends and family
( only my wife's since mine is in Pakistan ) invited, all the customs filled.

Fourth, I wasn't deported or overstayer or illegal or breaching the rules of my immigration status in UK ( for example working full time while being on student visa ) so I wasn't desparate to get my immigration sorted.

Fifth, our marriage is not a one to one relationship. I am even closer to my Polish in-laws than I could if they were Pakistani. My wife's relationship with my family is complicated though.

Now perhaps you can tell us if your marriage with your Polish wife is on the same lines ?

rebel82 wrote:Which proof have you got that your marriage to Polish girl is not for getting a passport? anything?
You can read the very first reason I mentioned. Second, I am already entitled to apply for the Polish permanent residence but guess what ?? we are not divorcing !

rebel82 wrote:For example if you find your partner cheating on you would you still live with her? If your answer is yes then you are trying to secure you Polish passport.
So are you telling me all these guys who are in the process of divorcing were actually cheated on by their wives ???

rebel82 wrote:So everybody have their reasons.
and in 99% of the cases its passport.
rebel82 wrote:The best thing to do for you is keep your self out from places where you do not belong.
I belong to this thread since I am also a non-EEA married to an EEA so you will have to bear with me I am afraid.
“Terrorism is the war of the poor; war is the terrorism of the rich.â€

bobobo
Senior Member
Posts: 742
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:13 pm

Post by bobobo » Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:27 am

I have been going through all the posts by inwarsaw and I would just politely want to request him not to be too vocal about his thoughts. I understand the whole democratic concept of freedom of speech but you cant just start offending people. The way inwarsaw does. I am sorry to say but just because I have freedom of speech doesnt mean I will write a whole story about a PAKISTANI lad marrying a POLISH girl on the justification that they are soulmates, if they are you guys are lucky to have found each other...but not everyone is as lucky as you are.

Let me ask you just one thing Inwarsaw God Forbid if tomorrow your Mrs says something about your ethinicity or your religion or anything derogatory about you or your family, you might gulp it down as you love her but some people might not do that. The Four fingers and the thumb is never same.

I do not condone the fact that sham marriages do not exist, but being critical of every single post in the forum is offending and gives people a feel that you are negative about everything.

You did not have to give details about your relationship with your Mrs as on this forum dont judge what you are up to but try to help people on humanitarian grounds. Look at people like Datuchi, Obie, Wanderer, John and so on these guys help us lot on the form in good faith and because they know that maybe some of us are not well versed with the law of the land.

I divorced my partner because of adultery commited by them (twice), so if i divorce them and want to know my rights am I wrong in doing so.

Of what you say then is that the EEA national can treat their partner from the rest of the world as crap, but when the other party takes action it is always done because of personal motives.

People on this forum who have taken action may have done so as they want to live a happy life as well and want to move on in life.

I hope that you understand that its your right to have your views, but these should be voiced with discreation and please try not to hurt people by just clamping down on them.

Remember you cant generalise people, if we on this forum did that to you it will hurt mate, but we are educated enough NOT TO JUDGE THE BOOK BY ITS COVER.

Please do not take things I have said to you personally, just something i wanted to convey.







inwarsaw wrote:
rebel82 wrote:Inwarsaw could you explain that how your marriage to EU citizen is not sham?
I appreciate your questions.

First because I didn't move nor am I dying to move my mule to the paradise i.e. UK and Ireland or anywhere else. I am living in Poland where my wife comes from. Not because I have to or because I can't move somewhere else, but because I married my wife to live with her, doesn't matter where.

Second, we had known each other for 7 years ( before Poland was in the EU ) and were a couple for 6 years before we got married.

Third, our marriage was not a 'bride, groom and two witnesses' type. It was a proper marriage with church ceremony, reception all the friends and family
( only my wife's since mine is in Pakistan ) invited, all the customs filled.

Fourth, I wasn't deported or overstayer or illegal or breaching the rules of my immigration status in UK ( for example working full time while being on student visa ) so I wasn't desparate to get my immigration sorted.

Fifth, our marriage is not a one to one relationship. I am even closer to my Polish in-laws than I could if they were Pakistani. My wife's relationship with my family is complicated though.

Now perhaps you can tell us if your marriage with your Polish wife is on the same lines ?

rebel82 wrote:Which proof have you got that your marriage to Polish girl is not for getting a passport? anything?
You can read the very first reason I mentioned. Second, I am already entitled to apply for the Polish permanent residence but guess what ?? we are not divorcing !

rebel82 wrote:For example if you find your partner cheating on you would you still live with her? If your answer is yes then you are trying to secure you Polish passport.
So are you telling me all these guys who are in the process of divorcing were actually cheated on by their wives ???

rebel82 wrote:So everybody have their reasons.
and in 99% of the cases its passport.
rebel82 wrote:The best thing to do for you is keep your self out from places where you do not belong.
I belong to this thread since I am also a non-EEA married to an EEA so you will have to bear with me I am afraid

Pakhtoon
- thin ice -
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:57 am
Location: Warsaw, Poland

Post by Pakhtoon » Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:19 am

I am sorry bobobo to hear about what you have been through. Please accept my apologies if you felt offended in any way by my posts.

I never intended to accuse/offend anyone. Even though I don't agree with some of the things you mentioned but I wouldn't want to carry on writing on this subject after reading your post.

P.S I totally agree with your opinion about Obie and John, no doubt they are great and Benifa is simply outstanding ! but not Datuchi, he is abusive and aggressive. And Wanderer is helpful ??? are you serious ??
“Terrorism is the war of the poor; war is the terrorism of the rich.â€

bobobo
Senior Member
Posts: 742
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2008 2:13 pm

Post by bobobo » Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:38 am

Hi Inwarsaw - No need to apologise mate, things go wrong in life...you need to be a soldier though :)

Everybody on this forum try to help in their own little way...not everyone is an expert but still I feel one can learn a lot from other people's experiences. We are all here to see how we can help each other...

Welcome to the club with whatever help you have to offer your fellow beings on this forum mate.
inwarsaw wrote:I am sorry bobobo to hear about what you have been through. Please accept my apologies if you felt offended in any way by my posts.

I never intended to accuse/offend anyone. Even though I don't agree with some of the things you mentioned but I wouldn't want to carry on writing on this subject after reading your post.

P.S I totally agree with your opinion about Obie and John, no doubt they are great and Benifa is simply outstanding ! but not Datuchi, he is abusive and aggressive. And Wanderer is helpful ??? are you serious ??

craigphill
Newly Registered
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 5:32 pm

Retaining right of residence

Post by craigphill » Sun Feb 28, 2010 5:40 pm

Hi,

I'm trying to retain right of residence and I tick all the boxes but the the only problem I'm having is proving that my ex wife was exercising her treaty rights. I have asked her to provide me with payslips,employer letters ...etc but she refuses to help me.
What I am I going to do? This is the only info I need to succeed in my application but can't get it.
Please if any one can advise me on what to do I will really appreciate it.

vegeta_2009
Member
Posts: 111
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:26 pm

Re: Retaining right of residence

Post by vegeta_2009 » Mon Mar 01, 2010 5:58 pm

DATUCHI, i just realized you were banned, pm me if you are still frequenting this forum.

Pakhtoon
- thin ice -
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:57 am
Location: Warsaw, Poland

Re: Retaining right of residence

Post by Pakhtoon » Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:18 pm

craigphill wrote:Hi,

I'm trying to retain right of residence and I tick all the boxes but the the only problem I'm having is proving that my ex wife was exercising her treaty rights. I have asked her to provide me with payslips,employer letters ...etc but she refuses to help me.
What I am I going to do? This is the only info I need to succeed in my application but can't get it.
Please if any one can advise me on what to do I will really appreciate it.
If your wife refuses to help you, there is no other way except perhaps hiring a private Sherlock Holme or something who can provide documentary evidence she was exercising her treaty rights. Thats what I know from what I have learn from this forum.
“Terrorism is the war of the poor; war is the terrorism of the rich.â€

Pakhtoon
- thin ice -
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:57 am
Location: Warsaw, Poland

Re: Retaining right of residence

Post by Pakhtoon » Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:18 pm

vegeta_2009 wrote:DATUCHI, i just realized you were banned, pm me if you are still frequenting this forum.
He got banned - for very right reasons - and that means he can't send any PMs either. You can wait for him if you wish...
“Terrorism is the war of the poor; war is the terrorism of the rich.â€

kashijee
Newly Registered
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 6:06 am

Re: Retaining right of residence

Post by kashijee » Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:22 am

Pakhtoon wrote:
vegeta_2009 wrote:DATUCHI, i just realized you were banned, pm me if you are still frequenting this forum.
He got banned - for very right reasons - and that means he can't send any PMs either. You can wait for him if you wish...
are you from peshawar and do u know adnan ? pakhtoon

Pakhtoon
- thin ice -
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:57 am
Location: Warsaw, Poland

Re: Retaining right of residence

Post by Pakhtoon » Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:36 am

kashijee wrote:
Pakhtoon wrote:
vegeta_2009 wrote:DATUCHI, i just realized you were banned, pm me if you are still frequenting this forum.
He got banned - for very right reasons - and that means he can't send any PMs either. You can wait for him if you wish...
are you from peshawar and do u know adnan ? pakhtoon
Excuse me ? Peshawar has a population of over 3 million :roll:
“Terrorism is the war of the poor; war is the terrorism of the rich.â€

dublin3
- thin ice -
Posts: 369
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:01 am
Location: ireland

Re: Retaining right of residence

Post by dublin3 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:31 am

Pakhtoon wrote:
kashijee wrote:
Pakhtoon wrote:
vegeta_2009 wrote:DATUCHI, i just realized you were banned, pm me if you are still frequenting this forum.
He got banned - for very right reasons - and that means he can't send any PMs either. You can wait for him if you wish...
are you from peshawar and do u know adnan ? pakhtoon
Excuse me ? Peshawar has a population of over 3 million :roll:
Ha ha ha ha :lol: :lol: :lol:

kashijee
Newly Registered
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2009 6:06 am

Re: Retaining right of residence

Post by kashijee » Fri Mar 05, 2010 5:14 am

Pakhtoon wrote:
kashijee wrote:
Pakhtoon wrote:
vegeta_2009 wrote:DATUCHI, i just realized you were banned, pm me if you are still frequenting this forum.
He got banned - for very right reasons - and that means he can't send any PMs either. You can wait for him if you wish...
are you from peshawar and do u know adnan ? pakhtoon
Excuse me ? Peshawar has a population of over 3 million :roll:
i know pakhtonisatan jee but i think he is relative of urs he told me about yourself and you left your 1st wife in pakistan now married with polish girl and thats you who trying be smart with everyone to show how much innocent and honest person u r

Pakhtoon
- thin ice -
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:57 am
Location: Warsaw, Poland

Re: Retaining right of residence

Post by Pakhtoon » Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:28 am

kashijee wrote:
Pakhtoon wrote:
kashijee wrote:
Pakhtoon wrote:
He got banned - for very right reasons - and that means he can't send any PMs either. You can wait for him if you wish...
are you from peshawar and do u know adnan ? pakhtoon
Excuse me ? Peshawar has a population of over 3 million :roll:
i know pakhtonisatan jee but i think he is relative of urs he told me about yourself and you left your 1st wife in pakistan now married with polish girl and thats you who trying be smart with everyone to show how much innocent and honest person u r
He actually lied to you, I didn't leave my first wife in Pakistan.
“Terrorism is the war of the poor; war is the terrorism of the rich.â€

vegeta_2009
Member
Posts: 111
Joined: Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:26 pm

Re: Retaining right of residence

Post by vegeta_2009 » Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:33 am

hmmm, this thread had strayed so far away..... :roll: would be good if we can get back to the original topic.
please share your experiences and hardships here, if it's personal please use PM.

Locked
cron