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URGENT HELP PLEASE - UK Visa's

Use this section for queries concerning applications on any of the EEA series of forms, and also for applications for EEA Family Permits.

Moderators: Casa, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, Zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, push

rednuke13
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URGENT HELP PLEASE - UK Visa's

Post by rednuke13 » Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:16 pm

Wow :D
I have been reading over this website and I am gutted i did not find it sooner!
okay where do i begin..

I am English born and bred, 32 years old and live in Greece with my Georgian wife who is 22.

We have been married since may 2012

July 5th 2012 we applied for the Spouse visa and paid the 1000 euro fee
Last week it was REJECTED

I originally sent the following


My bank details showing 12,000 GBP

A letter from my mother and father saying we can live at their 3 bedroom house for as long as we want and that they will support us 100%

(we also included copies of the house deed's NO mortgage )

My mother and fathers income - showing 3000 a month + 1000 from pensions + state pensions
(my father also included details of his pensions from Gov work)

My Mother and fathers Bank Details showing 150k in saving's

My wifes English results (she passed narrowly, but did pass)
NOTE- she speaks perfect English, but the test was freaking hard!!!!!


Marriage Certificate, translated and apostile stamped
letter from solicitor and translated.


Her Georgian passport.


Proof of ownership on x2 cars worth in total about 14,000GBP
(Toyota Rav4 and Nissan X trail)

all copies of my i.d and all forms for me and my mum n dad

I also stated 4 times on the Application that we live together or that i was NOT IN THE UK

------------------------REFUSAL---------------------------------------------
In your application, you state that it is your intention to join your husband, * ****
In order to satisfy the requirements under this heading, you must demonstrate that you intend to live permanently with your spouse, and that your relationship is subsisting. Other than a signed sponsorship undertaking, a photocopy of his passport and a copy of his bank statements, you have not provided any evidence of your husbands support of the application, or any evidence regarding circumstances in the UK, where it is noted he is currently unemployed.
although it is knowledge you have provided bank statements showing the transfer of 19,000 GBP this was largely due to his mother having paid the money into his account.
In the absence of any evidence regarding your husbands circumstances in the United kingdom or the subsistence of your relationship, I am not satisfied you intend to live permanently with your spouse.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We have appealed against this and have put everything in the post on recorded delivery

My father has written a formal letter of complaint to UKBA
also to Parliment, he has a meeting with the local MP on 11th November

My friend who is a Sgt in the RAF has also written a complaint to UKBA urging them to reconsider.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Monday we goto Athens to apply for an EEA Family 6 months


I also now have a job offer printed off from my "friend" who owns a Bar
with his full contact details stating i start mid January, NOTE this is a job offer for me not for my wife

My wife has lived in Greece for 8 years, she has worked here for 4 years and previously went to School here.
Her mother also has full Greek Residency and has lived with her Greek partner (not married) for 12 years, -they get married 2013 finally !!!

But after reading over this website, I have got the impressions EVERYTHING is a load of bollocks
We may as well have just got in the car, driven to England and said
"Right, here's our passports here's our Marriage Certificate"
"Good'day sir"



Shall I keep on with my trip to Athens this weekend and WAIT for the f'ing EEA visa?

OR


CAN WE just jump in the car and head through Europe into England?




My wife IS a resident of Greece, although her new Greek immigration "married to EEA Citizen" papers are taking ages to come through
((this is due to UKBA keeping her passport for 3 months))
((further Due to Greek gov offices taking years to do anything))



Im down to my last 5k in saving, we are stressed and fed up
we just want go live in the uk and settle down


What should i do ?


a trip to athens is going to cost at least 400 euro's this weekend
and then what we wait 3-6 months for a reply????




Love you all

Kefaloniaking

sum1
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Post by sum1 » Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:07 pm

So what you are essentially asking is if you can use the Singh route? The UKBA would require you to either have been a worker or a self-employed person while in Greece. You may be able to convince border guards with relevant documents. Other people on this forum said it worked for them.

When you are on the EEA route naturalisation will take longer (5 vs. 3 years) if your wife wants to do that.

rednuke13
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Post by rednuke13 » Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:18 pm

I could have a letter put together by a wedding photographer saying i worked for him in Greece.

But in all honesty I came out here for a long holiday, ended up getting married and staying even longer lol

There are no real jobs in greece, everything is cash and noone pays tax's
(hence all the problems)


We just want to go home and get to england, well be fine when we get there
I can get a well paid job easy enough and she will work in retail / fashion

mcovet
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Post by mcovet » Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:36 pm

rednuke13 wrote:I could have a letter put together by a wedding photographer saying i worked for him in Greece.

But in all honesty I came out here for a long holiday, ended up getting married and staying even longer lol

There are no real jobs in greece, everything is cash and noone pays tax's
(hence all the problems)


We just want to go home and get to england, well be fine when we get there
I can get a well paid job easy enough and she will work in retail / fashion
not to be lighthearted, but i would try and use the EEA route, drive down to Calais and attempt to board a ferry. The immigration officers have a special code like Code 1A stamp see 5.5.2
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary

If you speak to someone senior and explain that you are using the Surinder Singh ruling Regulation 9 of the 2006 SI

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2006 ... ion/9/made

armed with a letter of that job from your "friend" and a letter from the wedding photographer from Greece, you are very likely to get your wife admitted with that code 1A. I personally WOULD try this route as it is really almost failproof, I'd take any documents I could find to show how long I had been living in Ellada and press like a steam train about the admission to the UK!

I feel you should be fine, marriage certificate and her passport and her proof of residence in Greece as well.

Seems all for now.

rednuke13
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Post by rednuke13 » Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:44 pm

wow!!! wow wow


ok next Question:

Will the EEA Family Visa take her passport away like it did for the spouse visa???? & keep it for 3 months


the slight issue on her Residency paper is that the current one expired on the 17/09/2012
as the UKBA had her passport we could not apply to have it extended

furthermore now we are married it meant filling in a whole nre bunch of crappy greek forms

we have done this now

BUT

in true Greek fashion Cigar, cigar (slowly slowly) they said wait upto 6 months

WE CANT WAIT THIS LONG!!!!!!!! really going crazy now

mcovet
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Post by mcovet » Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:56 pm

I wouldn't advise sending an application for that EEA Family Permit if you wanted to save time and especially if you could not prove your work history in Greece to the UK embassy. It would be more difficult to prove you had exercised treaty rights in Greece to the UK embassy there, they would want some proof of profit/loss, income, you paying taxes/filling out self-assessment forms etc. don't know if they'd accept a simple letter saying you were working part-time and weren't earning enough to be taxed (which IS allowed and you are still regarded a worker).

The reason why I suggested driving down to Calais is that you would be pressing for your rights there and then! The border force wouldn't have the time to investigate your claims and could take your papers at face value.

The only problem I see now is that you said your wife's present visa/Residence Card expired in September 2012. In Calais, you most of the time pass both the French and the British border force. If only the Brits, you should be fine, but the French may not let her exit with the expired visa...even though you are exercising the freedom of movement and all you'd have to show the French would be your passports and the marriage certificate and they'd have no right to stop you guys!

It is certainly worth a try especially if there is only Brit border force

P.S. the EEA Family Permit application SHOULD, according to law, be done quickly but there have been people reporting on this forum that embassies take ages. If you had time while preparing for the car trip, you COULD submit the docs and they may even process the application within a few weeks, but if they take too long simply request passports back and drive to Calais, but that said, I PERSONALLY would have attempted to enter without a visa, especially with the link I gave you, print that Code 1A for the border force and they are fully aware of it.

rednuke13
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Post by rednuke13 » Fri Oct 12, 2012 4:09 pm

I was considering driving through Germany to holland then a boat to east england driving to cheltenham (home)
As i heard its a lot better than paying all the French Tol road's

Would this be any easier you think???


The marriage certificate is in greek but has been apostile stamped and translated by a lawyer and stamped by a lawyer


her residency paper is just a page on her passport its all in greek but does have the date on there

rednuke13
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Post by rednuke13 » Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:54 pm

5.5.2 Seeking admission at port
Applicants at port should be treated as persons seeking admission unless
reference is made to applying for a residence card. Admission will fall into one
of the following:
• produces satisfactory evidence on arrival
The person should be admitted for 6 months on a Code 1A. Complete landing card.

• Is unable to produce satisfactory evidence on arrival
The person should be given “every reasonable opportunity” to prove by other
means that he is the family member of an EEA national; a person should not
automatically be refused admission as a result of not being able to produce
adequate evidence. As a guide within a week of arriving at port should be
adequate; ports can consider refusing admission at this point, unless the
situation suggests more time is needed.

• submits an application for admission post arrival
The person has arrived seeking entry in another capacity and whilst on
temporary admission (TA) seeks admission under the EEA Regulations. In
such circumstances the same guidance as in the point above should be
followed. If a person has been on TA for more than 3 months any decision will
attract an in country right of appeal.



This first point ....
unless reference is made to applying for a residence card.....

Can someone explain exactly what this means ?

does this mean??? So at the border I should NOT say we are going to england to get a residency card?



also

• Is unable to produce satisfactory evidence on arrival














Forgive my hundred questions, but its a 3 day drive and im quite scared lol
even worse if my wife cannot get back into Greece!!!

sum1
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Post by sum1 » Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:42 am

I suggest to read this thread esp. regarding the "quality" of the employment.

Directive/2004/38/EC
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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:44 pm

If you had worked in Greece and had solid proof of it, e.g. tax returns or pay slips, then Singh would be an ideal quick way back to the UK.

But it sounds like you have not had a formal job, and that all the work you have done in Greece has been unofficial.

While I am a happy user of MRAX for entering without a required visa, it is harder to use in a Singh case and I would never advise it where there is not crystal clear evidence that the EU citizen has been working in the host member state.

What about finding a real part time job in Greece that gives you the required proof?

rednuke13
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Post by rednuke13 » Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:03 am

T.I.G This is Greece

no one pays tax, no one will give you payslips

CASH is the only way!


and there are NO JOBS!!!!



okay i read up on MRAX,..... It seems we can use this,

tell me if we were to get on a flight, once we landed in UK soil, its going to be next to impossible for them to turn us away right?
Here in Kefalonia, the airport security is so relaxed that we woulc probably fly, even if someone had a problem Im sure we could convince them to let her on a plane
Last edited by rednuke13 on Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

sum1
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Post by sum1 » Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:23 am

The problem is that you may not be able to convince the UKBA that you have a claim to EEA rights. Even if you made it past the border control what is your plan B?

rednuke13
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Post by rednuke13 » Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:30 am

well I have a ton of paperwork showing our address in Greece )various dates over 1 year)
a ton of paperwork showing my mum and dads address in the UK

I have British Passport, she has Gerogian Passport _with Greek Residency which although expired, is in transaction
- the problem is the office has run out of papers to print them on))))

I have my Greek residency card

Original stamped wedding certificate, translated and lawyer stamped

a letter showing i start a job in january 2013

a letter saying I have been working in Greece for a wedding photographer






What more can i get?
Last edited by rednuke13 on Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:48 am, edited 2 times in total.

Directive/2004/38/EC
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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:32 am

rednuke13 wrote:T.I.G This is Greece

no one pays tax, no one will give you payslips

CASH is the only way!

and there are NO JOBS!!!!
Then how do you plan to prove that you have exercised your treaty rights by working?

rednuke13 wrote:okay i read up on MRAX,..... It seems we can use this,

tell me if we were to get on a flight, once we landed in UK soil, its going to be next to impossible for them to turn us away right?
Here in Kefalonia, the airport security is so relaxed that we woulc probably fly, even if someone had a problem Im sure we could convince them to let her on a plane
Without being able to prove you have worked, then I do not see how you can take advantage of Singh. MRAX only helps you if you can prove you are covered by Singh.

rednuke13
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Post by rednuke13 » Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:34 am

Look even my wife has NEVER had a payslip from any job EVER!
and she has been here 8 years and worked in some good jobs


Problem is here when you employ someone you have to spent a fortune in gov tax's that mean you pay thousands out and business owners get nothing for it... they dont want to pay this, noone does ... so all employment is black


Hell the wedding Photographer hasnt paid any tax in 10 years!!!!
he is "international" so works all around the world, never earns enough in one country

rednuke13
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Post by rednuke13 » Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:41 am

... i mean i could probably arrange for some payslips i guess.....
they would be in Greek and no one at UKBA is gonna actually look into them with a huge amount of detail right?

I have a Greek bank account book that will show money going in every month (doesnt tell you where it came from)
is it reasonable to say I was paid cash every month?

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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:01 am

These are all very good questions.

Another idea: What if you paid your taxes for last year? Then it is clearly earnings from employment.

rednuke13
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Post by rednuke13 » Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:45 am

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:These are all very good questions.

Another idea: What if you paid your taxes for last year? Then it is clearly earnings from employment.



hheehhe yes! would open up a whole big can of worms doing this, would be looking at something like 1000 euro minimum maybe more

I think we already did a tax return as well for 2012 showing 0 income for both of us

rednuke13
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Post by rednuke13 » Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:49 am

basically im buggard arent I.,,,, will have to just wait for the court case on the Spouse Visa !!!! 3-6 months .. oh joy

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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Sun Oct 14, 2012 12:26 pm

Or find a job somewhere which will give you a paper trail. Can't be too hard. Part time work for 3 months. (Lets assume you are a skilled professional of some sort). You work for 15 euros per hour. And take a long lunch break.

Done.

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