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Visa free travel for Residence Card holder Case refer to ECJ

Use this section for queries concerning applications on any of the EEA series of forms, and also for applications for EEA Family Permits.

Moderators: Casa, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, Zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, push

tebee
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Re: Visa free travel for Residence Card holder Case refer to

Post by tebee » Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:53 am

A refused FP does not negate her rights to use the RC to enter with you, Have you presented the evidence that you have those rights to the IO ? It sounds as if they are using the probably illegal center of life requirments to try to suggest you are not qualified .

If you have the money it might be time to lawyer up, as I'm sure they are wrong and would ( eventually) lose in court - I assume you would be able to claim compensation for this.
“I speak the truth not so much as I would, but as much as I dare: and I dare a little more as I grow older.

kyanfar
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Re: Visa free travel for Residence Card holder Case refer to

Post by kyanfar » Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:52 am

ppp wrote:Yes I am a British national and was exercising Free Movement Rights in another EU Member State. I lived and worked there for nearly 5 months. Then I decided to apply for Family Permit for UK for my dependent (elderly and frail) mother. It was rejected for a host of reasons, starting with her previous visa refusals (settlement in the UK), then they didn't like my work evidence (didn't look at payslips and were confused with bank statements) and Centre of Life. So I decided that my mother can accompany me to the UK without FP but just with her EU RC. We were detained. They insisted we should have appealed against the FP decision and couldn't come without a visa. My mother is not a threat to anything, she had had a perfect immigration history until we applied for settlement in the UK for her (we did't realize then that it was an unwritten ban and the rules would be impossible to satisfy).
Now they want us back for an interview and will probably want to stamp her passport with a refused entry stamp.
Is there anything I can do?
Thank you
Hi,

My recommendation is that you should ask for the European case worker in UKBA, as they are more knowledgeable than the staff themselves...... You can also contact Solvit UK to get them involved.... their contact details follows:

Chris Korcz
Department for Business, Innovation and Skills
1 Victoria Street
UK - London SW1H 0ET
Tel. +44 20 7215 2833
Fax. +44 20 7215 2234
solvit@bis.gsi.gov.uk

ppp
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Re: Visa free travel for Residence Card holder Case refer to

Post by ppp » Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:14 pm

Thanks for your advice.
I tried calling Christine Korcz today, she was out of her office, I left her a message, but she didn't call back :(

qinqin
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Re: Visa free travel for Residence Card holder Case refer to

Post by qinqin » Wed Jul 22, 2015 4:16 pm

I hold a valid Residence card (of a family member of a Union citizen, issued in Germany under Article 10 of 2004/38). Do I need to buy return ticket if I travel to the UK with my French wife?

emmasu
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Re: Visa free travel for Residence Card holder Case refer to

Post by emmasu » Sat Jul 25, 2015 2:20 pm

Me and my husband want to relocate to the UK together. We are really confused right now. According to their UKBA site, i can travel with him with my EU family residence card but cant find anything neither here or online, if people managed to enter with just the residence card.

We tried to apply for the family permit since its free of charge, but there is a question, if my husband, since he is the eu national, if he is working in the UK or not. There were two options of yes and no, but the funny thing is, there was a star next to the yes, which means that he has to answer yes to that question. We are trying to relocate there, so how are we possible to be working there??

We would really appreciate any experience from anyone who had gone there and got in through the residence card.

qinqin
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Re: Visa free travel for Residence Card holder Case refer to

Post by qinqin » Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:26 am

On the 25th of July, I entered the UK through Carais uk border control together with my French wife without EEA family permit.It took us half an hour to get through.Can anybody know "NWP" means in the stamp?All words in the stamp is "Leave to enter the United Kingdom is hereby given for /until six months" and "NWP 72 538"
Last edited by qinqin on Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:36 am, edited 3 times in total.

qinqin
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Re: Visa free travel for Residence Card holder Case refer to

Post by qinqin » Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:30 am

qinqin wrote:I hold a valid Residence card (of a family member of a Union citizen, issued in Germany under Article 10 of 2004/38). Do I need to buy return ticket if I travel to the UK with my spanish wife?

pranjam
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Re: Visa free travel for Residence Card holder Case refer to

Post by pranjam » Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:01 am

kyanfar wrote:
ppp wrote:Yes I am a British national and was exercising Free Movement Rights in another EU Member State. I lived and worked there for nearly 5 months. Then I decided to apply for Family Permit for UK for my dependent (elderly and frail) mother. It was rejected for a host of reasons, starting with her previous visa refusals (settlement in the UK), then they didn't like my work evidence (didn't look at payslips and were confused with bank statements) and Centre of Life. So I decided that my mother can accompany me to the UK without FP but just with her EU RC. We were detained. They insisted we should have appealed against the FP decision and couldn't come without a visa. My mother is not a threat to anything, she had had a perfect immigration history until we applied for settlement in the UK for her (we did't realize then that it was an unwritten ban and the rules would be impossible to satisfy).
Now they want us back for an interview and will probably want to stamp her passport with a refused entry stamp.
Is there anything I can do?
Thank you
Hi,

My recommendation is that you should ask for the European case worker in UKBA, as they are more knowledgeable than the staff themselves...... You can also contact Solvit UK to get them involved.... their contact details follows:

Chris Korcz
Department for Business, Innovation and Skills
1 Victoria Street
UK - London SW1H 0ET
Tel. +44 20 7215 2833
Fax. +44 20 7215 2234
solvit@bis.gsi.gov.uk
Hi I intended to use the same route to get my mother in and the law is pretty straightforward atleast it seemed like it was initially as mentioned here Entering the UK as the holder of an Article 10 residence card

However on further research it seems UKBA are insisting that this will not apply to british citizens but only to EEA nationals and so for any british citizen to wishes to use this route will have to first go through the center of life rules to prove that they are an EEA natonal and have exercised their EU treat rights. A FOI request to clarify this has been raised by britcits but UKBA has failed to respond to it so far.

The details of that request here McCarthy ruling -2

secret.simon
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Re: Visa free travel for Residence Card holder Case refer to

Post by secret.simon » Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:00 pm

For further reference;
pranjam wrote:However on further research it seems UKBA are insisting that this will not apply to british citizens but only to EEA nationals and so for any british citizen to wishes to use this route will have to first go through the center of life rules to prove that they are an EEA natonal and have exercised their EU treat rights. A FOI request to clarify this has been raised by britcits but UKBA has failed to respond to it so far. The details of that request here McCarthy ruling -2
The reference to the Annex A is to the Annex A of the original FOI request.

UKV&I interpretation of EEA Case law and appeals

A useful blog to follow on EU law

acme4242
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Re: Visa free travel for Residence Card holder Case refer to

Post by acme4242 » Wed Sep 23, 2015 9:58 pm

FOI request, after 7 months, here is the reply

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ ... y_ruling_2


Question:
Please clarify whether by the above it is meant that in practice family members of British citizens, holding an Article 10 Residence Card issued by an EEA Member State other than Switzerland, are thus still required to obtain a UK Family Permit or UK visa,even where the travel is with or to join their sponsor (British).

Specifically, is the Home Office then interpreting the McCarthy judgment as not applying to family members of British citizens, even where the family member holds an Article 10 Residence Card purely because of their relationship with the British citizen who the issuing Member State accepts has exercised their EU treaty rights? If the answer to the above is yes, please explain why.

As a separate request, please let us know why UK has interpreted
McCarthy to not apply to those holding a Swiss Residence Card
(appreciate Switzerland is not in the EEA, although there is some
allowance for free movement).

If the answer to the above is yes, please explain why.
Answer
In order to be admitted to the UK, the non-EEA national would need to demonstrate that they have a right of admission under EU law. The presentation of an Article 10 residence card does not on its own give the holder a right of admission, it simply exempts the holder from the requirement to hold an EEA family permit. A person who presents such a document must also demonstrate that:

* they are the family member of the EEA national as claimed; and
* they are accompanying the EEA national to the UK, or
* they are joining the EEA national in the UK; and
* the EEA national is residing in the UK in accordance with the Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006 (asamended), or will have a right of residence on entering the UK (where they are travelling with the non-EEA family member).

Non-EEA family members of British citizens must also demonstrate that the conditions in Regulation 9 are met in order to have a right of admission.
A Sir Humphrey style answer (reference to BBC series Yes. Minister) which seems to say you don't need an EEA Family Permit, but must demonstrate that you meet the requirements and would qualify for an EEA Family Permit.

tomaquet
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Re: Visa free travel for Residence Card holder Case refer to

Post by tomaquet » Wed Jan 27, 2016 3:56 pm

I am a British citizen living in Spain (for 10 years). My wife is Colombian and has an article 10 residence card issued here in Spain. Can we travel to the UK together without the need for an EEA family permit?

I have read above that this rule might be exempt to British citizens like myself. But it doesn't mention this exemption here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... dence-card

Has anyone (non-eu article 10 residence card holder married to a Brit) successfully entered the uk like this? Are the airlines fully aware of this rule?

Thanks, Ben

acme4242
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Re: Visa free travel for Residence Card holder Case refer to

Post by acme4242 » Sat Jan 30, 2016 4:10 am

tomaquet wrote: Are the airlines fully aware of this rule?
TIMATIC the airline database says

https://www.timaticweb.com/cgi-bin/tim_ ... user=GFB2C
National XX TESTING 1 (XX) /Residence Spain (ES)
Destination United Kingdom (GB)

Visa required, except for Passengers with a "Family Member"
Residence Card marked "Permanent Residence Card of a Family
Member of a Union Citizen or Residence Card of a Family
Member of a Union Citizen issued by Spain to family members
of an EEA national or national of Switzerland if
traveling with or traveling to join the EEA national or
national of Switzerland.

tomaquet
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Re: Visa free travel for Residence Card holder Case refer to

Post by tomaquet » Sat Jan 30, 2016 12:11 pm

acme4242 wrote: TIMATIC the airline database says

https://www.timaticweb.com/cgi-bin/tim_ ... user=GFB2C
Thanks for posting. So we shouldn't have any problems then?

Cheers

wish_uk
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Pakistan

Re: Visa free travel for Residence Card holder Case refer to

Post by wish_uk » Wed Feb 10, 2016 12:37 am

Is it possible to get EEA DEPENDANT STAMP for who do not have Article 10 card, if some one holds RESIDENCE CARD FOR FAMILY MEMBER under domestic law, and travelling with his/spouse + Marriage certificate + Residence card + passports

BY bus CALAIS-DOVER channel

thanks for help
married Aug 2014

nenel31
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Re: Visa free travel for Residence Card holder Case refer to

Post by nenel31 » Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:54 am

Dear all,

I have read most of the replies and I haven't found a similar case so I will ask for your advice.

I am a Swiss National living with my wife (non swiss or EU national) in Germany for the last 6 years. We both have a permanent residence card issued by Germany. We would like to travel to UK on holidays for 4 days. Does she need to get a visa or permit?

Thank,

Jean

wish_uk
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Pakistan

Re: Visa free travel for Residence Card holder Case refer to

Post by wish_uk » Wed Mar 09, 2016 12:49 pm

nenel31 wrote:Dear all,

I have read most of the replies and I haven't found a similar case so I will ask for your advice.

I am a Swiss National living with my wife (non swiss or EU national) in Germany for the last 6 years. We both have a permanent residence card issued by Germany. We would like to travel to UK on holidays for 4 days. Does she need to get a visa or permit?

Thank,

Jean

no you dont need visa.
because residence issued by GERMANY AND ESTONIA are accepted by uk

cheers, and have a nice trip
married Aug 2014

acme4242
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Re: Visa free travel for Residence Card holder Case refer to

Post by acme4242 » Thu Mar 10, 2016 7:57 am

https://www.timaticweb.com/cgi-bin/tim_ ... user=GFB2C
United Kingdom (GB)

Visa required, except for Passengers with a "Family Member"
Residence Card marked "Permanent Residence Card of a Family
Member of a Union Citizen or Residence Card of a Family
Member of a Union Citizen issued by Germany to family members
of an EEA national or national of Switzerland if
traveling with or traveling to join the EEA national or
national of Switzerland.
Check timaticweb
http://www.gulfair.com/English/info/pre ... ation.aspx
http://www.skyteam.com/en/your-trip/Ser ... nd-Health/
http://www.staralliance.com/en/services ... nd-health/

manicminer
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Re: Visa free travel for Residence Card holder Case refer to

Post by manicminer » Tue May 17, 2016 12:14 am

Are there any updates on the Article 10 guidance issued by UKVI?

Is it basically the case that the British EU visiting with the non-EU spouse still has to satisfy Regulation 9, even with the Art. 10 RC? The guidance is clearly unclear!

I'm self-sufficient in the EU.

I guess this could mean that I am not able to satisfy Regulation 9 in order to visit with my wife.

orere2000
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Re: Visa free travel for Residence Card holder Case refer to

Post by orere2000 » Thu May 19, 2016 8:03 pm

I need a clarification because i've read several article and everyone saying different things.

I am a non-eea family member of a German national. I have 2 kids who are German nationals. My spouse works in Ireland and we want to go an visit him for the holidays.

I have a permanent Resident card issued to me since 2012 after completing my 5 years exercising my eea treaty rights. After that initial 5 years i was given a permanent resident card.

Now do i need a visa to visit Ireland despite having a permanent resident card since 2012?..

Where can i find a clear documentation to show the airlines or Irish border officers who might not be aware of the changes since February 2016?

PLEASE HELP CLARIFY..

jotoia
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Re: Visa free travel for Residence Card holder Case refer to

Post by jotoia » Wed Jun 08, 2016 1:20 pm

Hi all

My residence card says on back in remarks section "eu right to reside"
does that mean i dont need visa to travel to eu on my own?
I am non eea family member of eea national iving in UK.
Thank you all

acme4242
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Re: Visa free travel for Residence Card holder Case refer to

Post by acme4242 » Thu Jun 09, 2016 5:24 am

The last few posts have a common question, do I need a visa.
hope this helps.

Here are some links to the visa information airlines use
this covers both transit visa and visit visas.


NOTE as Ryanair and Easyjet don't pay for IATA membership
they don't use Timatic. I don't know what Ryanair/Easyjet use as reference (if anything)
But other big airlines such as KLM, SAS etc use it.


When airline staff check their computer or latest TIM manual for
your visa requirements.
This is what the Airline staff would see.

Please enter your details, such as Nationality
Please print the result and bring it with you.

A few links to the same Database, always the same information back
because it comes from IATA TIMATIC

http://www.gulfair.com/English/info/pre ... ation.aspx
and
http://www.united.com/web/en-US/apps/ve ... ?i=timatic
and
http://www.skyteam.com/en/flights-and-d ... nd-health/
and
http://www.klm.com/travel/sg_en/prepare ... saform.htm
and
https://www.olympicair.com/en/Info/Timatic
and
http://www.iatatravelcentre.com/travelinformation.php# (very bad interface, but more options)
and
http://www.virgin-atlantic.com/gb/en/tr ... untry.html (very bad interface)
===================================
Background on airline database

What is TimaticWeb?
TimaticWeb is a web-based service used to determine traveler border
control requirements. The service is based on Timatic and is used by the
entire aviation industry

IATA Timatic is the industry standard used by airlines and travel
agents to be compliant with border control rules and regulations.
Timatic delivers personalized information based on the passengers
destination, transit points, nationality, travel document, residence
country etc.

The Timatic Quick Reference Guide will assist you to make the correct
request for the specific information of every type of passenger.
Timatic can be used to provide passengers with this critical
information as part of the booking process, as well as during check-in

to ensure travelers have the correct travel documentation.
Some Airlines provide web-access to the Database, Its always the same
information because it comes from Industry IATA database called TIMATIC

http://www.iata.org/ps/publications/Pages/tim.aspx
http://www.iatatravelcentre.com/travelinformation.php#
http://www.timaticweb.com/

Albo4life
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Re: Visa free travel for Residence Card holder Case refer to

Post by Albo4life » Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:54 am

Hello friends!
Can anyone please help me. I am British citizen and married to Albanian wife non eu. I have moved to Italy for 5 months now and my wife has residency card, permesso Di soggiorno, all the documents she needs. Now I'm planning of going to visit my parents in England for few days. Can I travel via aeroplane if she does not have eea family permit visa?

Thank you

linque28
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Turkey

Re: Visa free travel for Residence Card holder Case refer to ECJ

Post by linque28 » Mon May 21, 2018 7:03 pm

Hİ friends can you help me about travelling to UK ? I am from turkey and I am married with Austrian wife and we live in Austria. I have a residence card for 3 years.my wife and child have Austrian citizenship.I want to travel to UK with my family for 2 weeks.so what should I do? can I travel without visa? my card is article 10 or normal card I dont know.how can ı get article 10 residence card.? or tourist visa sould I have ? what do you recommend ? thanks very much

linque28
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Turkey

Re: Visa free travel for Residence Card holder Case refer to ECJ

Post by linque28 » Mon May 21, 2018 7:04 pm

Hİ friends can you help me about travelling to UK ? I am from turkey and I am married with Austrian wife and we live in Austria. I have a residence card for 3 years.my wife and child have Austrian citizenship.I want to travel to UK with my family for 2 weeks.so what should I do? can I travel without visa? my card is article 10 or normal card I dont know.how can ı get article 10 residence card.? or tourist visa sould I have ? what do you recommend ? thanks very much

vinny
Moderator
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Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 7:58 pm

Re: Visa free travel for Residence Card holder Case refer to ECJ

Post by vinny » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:49 am

This is not intended to be legal or professional advice in any jurisdiction. Please click on any given links for further information. Refer to the source of any quotes.
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