Zambrano Settled Status EU settlement scheme Paper Application Form - NEW

Wishfulgirl wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 12, 2023 9:08 am

I forgot to edit the first pic my reference number is in it. Can someone please edit it, that’s what I was worried about forgetting to edit something out.

I have removed all your attachments as there was more than one page where you had not redacted personal information.

Please remember that you are posting an awful lot of personal information and specific circumstances information on a very public forum.

CR001 wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 12, 2023 9:22 am

Wishfulgirl wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 12, 2023 9:08 am

I forgot to edit the first pic my reference number is in it. Can someone please edit it, that’s what I was worried about forgetting to edit something out.

I have removed all your attachments as there was more than one page where you had not redacted personal information.

Please remember that you are posting an awful lot of personal information and specific circumstances information on a very public forum.

Okay thanks very much, Appreciate it.

marcidevpal wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 12, 2023 9:14 am

Wishfulgirl wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 12, 2023 9:03 am

If your grounds were that the Home Office's refusal goes against:

- Appendix EU
- Section 55 of the Borders Act
- UN Article 3

I think you may want to consider abandoning the appeal unless you can find a solicitor. Those arguments are super weak, in my opinion.

I’ll take sometime to calm down and come back & read later.

Wishfulgirl wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 12, 2023 9:26 am

I’ll take sometime to calm down and come back & read later.

I wholeheartedly agree. Maybe you should take the day off. Today was a bit heavy.

Wishfulgirl wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 12, 2023 9:26 am

While this point is fresh in my mind...

Evidence

I have taken into consideration all the evidence before me, as well as the parties submissions even where not specifically mentioned in reaching this decision.

The Appellants’ Claim and Submission

I note her statement and the ASA as to her position and argument made before me. I do not repeat this evidence or submission it is clearly set out in those documents and in the documentary evidence.

Why wouldn't the judge go through each ground and say whether he agreed or disagreed? Why didn't he briefly summarise each ground???? That means the next judge has to go to your ASA to find the grounds. Then, they have to figure out if the judge addressed the ground or committed an error of law. What a mess.

marcidevpal wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 12, 2023 9:34 am

Wishfulgirl wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 12, 2023 9:26 am

I’ll take sometime to calm down and come back & read later.

I wholeheartedly agree. Maybe you should take the day off. Today was a bit heavy.

I’ve managed to get it together & I’ve have contacted a few solicitors and most don’t even want to talk about my case first without me paying £100 consultation fee. For every five I contact, that’s £100 each. £500 in total, I certainly cannot afford that.

They are not saying straight up Yes or No, However, they require a fee before I can even explain my case ( A consultation) and my concern is, I cannot go around paying £100 to each and every firm just to explain my case for them to tell me something I may already know. Never thought it’d be this difficult.

marcidevpal wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 12, 2023 10:03 am

Wishfulgirl wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 12, 2023 9:26 am

While this point is fresh in my mind...

Evidence

I have taken into consideration all the evidence before me, as well as the parties submissions even where not specifically mentioned in reaching this decision.

The Appellants’ Claim and Submission

I note her statement and the ASA as to her position and argument made before me. I do not repeat this evidence or submission it is clearly set out in those documents and in the documentary evidence.

Why wouldn't the judge go through each ground and say whether he agreed or disagreed? Why didn't he briefly summarise each ground???? That means the next judge has to go to your ASA to find the grounds. Then, they have to figure out if the judge addressed the ground or committed an error of law. What a mess.

I’ve got no experience with this, (Have no idea how it works) but from my observation, The judge seem to have focused the hearing solely on the Reason for the appeal and The Home Office’s reasons for rejection in my case ( Zambrano). Yes, I stated I was a person with retained rights/Family members but he may not have touch based that point because that wasn’t the reason for the appeal? Honestly, I don’t know.

Wishfulgirl wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 12, 2023 12:28 pm

I don't think you should talk to anyone until you can articulate the grounds you submitted to the FtT - in simple, everyday language.

I think you should keep a spreadsheet with each one you contacted, the dates and the refusal. That way, if a judge asks you why you are not represented, you can whip out your spreadsheet and show how difficult it has been.

I didn't want to bother you as you seemed like you needed a break. I am dying to know what your grounds said.

What exactly did you argue?
Did you have a structure to your ASA?
Is there a section called "Submissions"?
If so, what were your submissions? Did you not make any submissions?

Wishfulgirl wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 12, 2023 12:32 pm

The judge seem to have focused the hearing solely on the Reason for the appeal...

Yes, he mentioned that you had submissions but he wasn't clear about what exactly your submissions were. You also seem a bit unclear about what your submissions were. Even if you get a solicitor to talk to you, they may hesitate to take on your case. If your submissions were poorly argued, they may decide it is better for you to abandon the appeal. I know it is difficult to hear, but I am trying to save you time, money and further stress. Hang in there.

Wishfulgirl wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 12, 2023 12:32 pm

In your own words, what did the Home Office do wrong with regard to your EUSS application - apart from refuse you? And which of those arguments (if any) did you make before the judge?

That is what any solicitor is going to want to know - in addition to what the judge said in response.

On Solicitors

When a solicitor invites you to an introductory conference, one of the many things they may consider, is how engaged you are with your claim. For example, they are almost certainly going to send you drafts. They want to know you will read the draft and understand (to some degree) what is being argued. No one wants to work with someone who just says here's some money, please fix this for me - unless the matter is truly trivial. Immigration cases are rarely trivial. It is important to have a thesis about why the other side is wrong. Even if your logic is flawed, a solicitor will work with you if you aren't stubborn and have a flexible mindset. But if you are the type of person who says "yes" without really thinking through the implications of what is being argued, the solicitor is probably not going to want you as a client. For example, the solicitor could get something wrong and you don't correct him or her because you are passive. If you lose, you are more likely to blame the solicitor because you put 100% of the burden on the solicitor for winning. So, you don't have to come up with the arguments to make to the judge. But, once the arguments are available to you, really try to understand them. And once the document is submitted, you should be able to see quickly to what extent your FtT judge engaged with your arguments. Hope that helps.

*If you take me, for instance. I suspect 95% of solicitors would NOT want to work with me, even though I am highly engaged. Why? 1.) Because I want people to argue certain points such as discrimination. 2.) I am less flexible in my thinking than the average person, due to the amount of time I have spent researching these issues. I am ok with this situation. But if I had not spent so much time, I would be more flexible.

marcidevpal wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 12, 2023 2:25 pm

Wishfulgirl wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 12, 2023 12:28 pm

I don't think you should talk to anyone until you can articulate the grounds you submitted to the FtT - in simple, everyday language.

I think you should keep a spreadsheet with each one you contacted, the dates and the refusal. That way, if a judge asks you why you are not represented, you can whip out your spreadsheet and show how difficult it has been.

I didn't want to bother you as you seemed like you needed a break. I am dying to know what your grounds said.

What exactly did you argue?
Did you have a structure to your ASA?
Is there a section called "Submissions"?
If so, what were your submissions? Did you not make any submissions?

A lot of the skeleton argument where a drafted example of yours which I found helpful because I really didn't know what to write.


" [E] SUBMISSIONS

1. The appellant contends she is a Zambrano carer based on the 2016 EEA Regulations. In Akinsanya v SSHD, the Court of Appeal ruled a Zambrano carer can hold leave to remain under Appendix FM and still be a Zambrano carer. In Giraldo v SSHD, the Upper Tribunal ruled Zambrano carers who met the definition as per the EEA Regulations, are entitled to permanent residence after five years under Appendix EU.The appellant is entitled to permanent residence based on five years residence in the UK.

2. The appellant maintains a grant of leave to remain issued under Appendix FM in October 2019 has no bearing and should not warrant a refusal under the EU settlement scheme. At the time of the appellant’s application to the EU settlement scheme, evidence provided proved the appellant had already acquired 5 year residence as a Zambrano carer. Per Giraldo v SSHD, E.K. v Netherlands a Zambrano carer who acquires five years residence prior to 31 December 2020 is entitled to permanent residence.

3. The appellant contends she is a family member who has retained the right of residence. She became eligible for permanent residence in July 2016. Per the terms of the Withdrawal Agreement, she retains this right. The appellant confirmed to the respondent she had remained a continuous resident in the UK. Rights acquired before 31 December 2020 are not extinguished by the Withdrawal Agreement. The appellant has spent over 10 years lawfully resident in the UK. The respondent had a responsibility under section 18 (r) and (o) to help the appellant qualify for settlement. The respondent failed to help the appellant prove her eligibility for permanent residence.

4. The appellant also contends human rights should be a statutory ground upon which she can challenge the respondent’s decision. The United Kingdom is a member of the Council of Europe and a Contracting Party to the European Convention on Human Rights. Accordingly, a court or tribunal determining a question which has arisen in connection with a Convention right must take into account any judgments, decision, declaration or advisory opinion of the European Court of Human Rights, whenever made or given, so far as, in the opinion of the court or tribunal, it is relevant to the proceedings in which that question has arisen. The issue of her permanent residence is a question which concerns her Convention rights."

And a bunch of laws pertaining to the submission. I get the feeling I am saying to much on the forum like CR0 said " very specific " and it seems alot of people are viewing. Home Office will certainly know it's me if they view this forum. I've yet to find someone in my situation. I didn't realize I maybe implicating myself by seeking some guidance here. ( What else am I supposed to do when solicitors are pointing me to one route)

I have up until next Friday to make a further appeal or abondon the whole thing and continue on flr. However, I wanted to put in the best effort for my children because I felt I may have given up on my right to settlement in 2019 and I didn't wanted to do that same thing again in 2023.

I spoke to two more solicitors today who basically said the same thing the solicitor in 2019 said , Your situation is long and complicated. they added "stay on flr route because you got British children" That right there is how I ended up on flr in the first place. Had I followed my instinct and applied for zambrano like I wanted to 2019, I would've received settlement by now. Very depressing and to be frank the situation isn't helping my mental health at the minute. With a dead line to meet my anxiety is at all time high.

Wishfulgirl wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 12, 2023 3:01 pm

I am sooo confused. Is this really what you sent? Oh no. The judge ignored your submissions, then? Wow. Just wow. To me, that would be a clear error of law.

marcidevpal wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 12, 2023 3:08 pm

Wishfulgirl wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 12, 2023 3:01 pm

I am sooo confused. Is this really what you sent? Oh no. The judge ignored your submissions, then? Wow. Just wow. To me, that would be a clear error of law.

Yes, that's what I sent. And tbh I felt it was well written especially for litigant in person. The courts however saw otherwise.

Wishfulgirl wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 12, 2023 3:18 pm

Yes, that's what I sent.

All they had to do was address your 4 arguments. Not 30. Just 4. And, they had your claim for six months!

So, all that stuff written about Section 55 and Article 3 of the UN was made up by him??

I think in the template section [C] or [D] was called "Questions for the judge to consider" or something like that. Did you do that section? If so, what questions did you ask him to answer? Do you feel he answered them?

Your permission to appeal is simple. The key error of law is his refusal to engage with your submissions. Restate your 4 grounds and say that your judge did not address all of your grounds. Then, the next judge reads your grounds, reads his decision, and sees that he did not address your arguments in his decision.

That is why I say do PAPER appeals, people. It becomes evident when the judge makes errors of law. You just compare your document to the judge's document.

I am really shocked.

marcidevpal wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 12, 2023 3:24 pm

Wishfulgirl wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 12, 2023 3:18 pm

Yes, that's what I sent.

All they had to do was address your 4 arguments. Not 30. Just 4. And, they had your claim for six months!

So, all that stuff written about Section 55 and Article 3 of the UN was made up by him??

I think in the template section [C] or [D] was called "Questions for the judge to consider" or something like that. Did you do that section? If so, what questions did you ask him to answer? Do you feel he answered them?

Your permission to appeal is simple. The key error of law is his refusal to engage with your submissions. Restate your 4 grounds and say that your judge did not address all of your grounds. Then, the next judge reads your grounds, reads his decision, and sees that he did not address your arguments in his decision.

That is why I say do PAPER appeals, people. It becomes evident when the judge makes errors of law. You just compare your document to the judge's document.

I am really shocked.

Copy and paste below from my skeleton argument.

" C] ISSUES TO BE DETERMINED

1. Whether the appellant was a retained family member of an EEA national who had acquired the right to permanent residence at the time of her application?

2. Whether the appellant was a Zambrano carer under the EEA Regulations who had acquired the right to permanent residence at the time of her application?

3. Whether the respondent's refusal interferes with the appellant's human rights under the Human Rights Act 1998 and/or the European Convention on the Protection of Human Rights? "

What is the section 55 and article UN stuff? I thought that was his own assumption.

The appeal is as you drafted it, obviously I added a bit more info from myself. I thought the judge was doing his own section 55 assessment?

" But, I must apply the Rules under which the Appellant makes her application.
My Section 55 assessment cannot augment Rules such as to confer compliance with the Rules.
The documentary evidence as to the family permit, residence
card and residence permit confirm to me the various ways in which the Appellant has had immigration status in the UK since xx 2010. Her last such status I find to be the residence permit which I judge was obtained under Appendix FM of the Rules (as the Refusal Letter asserts) and was for the period xxx to XXX 2022. She made the application under appeal on the xxx 2021 thus during the currency of that leave to remain. "

Was this not the case?

Wishfulgirl wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 12, 2023 3:31 pm

No one asked him to do a Section 55 assessment. He was asked to abide by the Withdrawal Agreement. The "Rules" are only lawful to the extent they uphold the terms from the Withdrawal Agreement.

He made 2 errors.

One, he did not address your grounds or answer the Questions.

Two, he ruled on the legality of Appendix EU for Zambrano carers when Akinsanya's judicial review is in play.

Section 55! LOL!!!!

Wishfulgirl wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 12, 2023 3:31 pm

Your FtT judge seems to have replaced your 4 arguments with his 3, incredibly weak arguments - and then refused you on that basis.

I thought someone from this forum told you to change your arguments. It looks like I was wrong. I need a holiday.

Wishfulgirl wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 12, 2023 3:31 pm

What is the section 55 and article UN stuff? I thought that was his own assumption.

What he is doing, is implying your grounds revolve around 3 areas:

-Appendix EU

-Section 55 of the Borders Act - it is a UK bill that says public authorities need to consider the best interests of the child

-Article 3 of one of the UN conventions or treaties

But you clearly stated your grounds. He created a 'straw man'.

He pretended your argument was something other than what it really is so he could refuse you.

Wishfulgirl wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 12, 2023 3:31 pm

Example of what you could say to a solicitor:

I submitted an EUSS appeal with 4 grounds. The FtT judge refused the appeal. I need to apply for permission to appeal by DD/MM. My reasons are because

- The judge did not address 2 of my grounds at all, and

- He addressed the other 2 grounds when he should have waited for the outcome of a pending judicial review. These last 2 grounds are currently being argued in Akinsanya v SSHD.

marcidevpal wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 12, 2023 4:07 pm

Wishfulgirl wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 12, 2023 3:31 pm

Example of what you could say to a solicitor:

I submitted an EUSS appeal with 4 grounds. The FtT judge refused the appeal. I need to apply for permission to appeal by DD/MM. My reasons are because

- The judge did not address 2 of my grounds at all, and

- He addressed the other 2 grounds when he should have waited for the outcome of a pending judicial review. These last 2 grounds are currently being argued in Akinsanya v SSHD.

If only it was as easy as this, I gotta pay £100 first before they'll give a listening ear and after which, there’s no guarantee they’ll help me. I feel a lot hear the word (Zambrano) and goes oh no.

Wishfulgirl wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 12, 2023 4:14 pm

If only it was as easy as this, I gotta pay £100 first before they'll give a listening ear and after which, there’s no guarantee they’ll help me. I feel a lot hear the word (Zambrano) and goes oh no.

I agree there is some issue against Zambrano carers. The judges may be pressuring people to go for Appendix FM, too. It is almost always mentioned somehow in the decision. I don't think you should call solicitors. I think you should send a very brief email. Make it clear you are eligible for legal aid. They shouldn't be asking people who are eligible for legal aid for 100 gbp. Also, I think you will be fine creating the permission to appeal letter without a solicitor. I think there is a strong chance you will get permission to appeal. Once you get that, it will be easier for a solicitor to decide to represent you.

marcidevpal wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 12, 2023 3:36 pm

Wishfulgirl wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 12, 2023 3:31 pm

No one asked him to do a Section 55 assessment. He was asked to abide by the Withdrawal Agreement. The "Rules" are only lawful to the extent they uphold the terms from the Withdrawal Agreement.

He made 2 errors.

One, he did not address your grounds or answer the Questions.

Two, he ruled on the legality of Appendix EU for Zambrano carers when Akinsanya's judicial review is in play.

Section 55! LOL!!!!

I didn’t. I couldn’t. The forum became quiet after everyone started getting their decisions and you were the only one here keeping it alive and for that I’m grateful, because I probably would’ve gave up along time ago.

Systemic / Institutionalised ....

The Home Office refuses approximately 90% of Zambrano applicants to the EUSS.

Lawyers refuse to represent Zambrano carers on their appeals.

First-tier Tribunal judges create straw men arguments, replacing the actual submissions with their own, far weaker submissions

Upper Tribunal judges declare judges can refuse to consider human rights

No charities fight on behalf of Zambrano carers (or am I wrong?).

That's the definition of systemic ___ or institutionalised ____.

marcidevpal wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 12, 2023 3:42 pm

Wishfulgirl wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 12, 2023 3:31 pm

Your FtT judge seems to have replaced your 4 arguments with his 3, incredibly weak arguments - and then refused you on that basis.

I thought someone from this forum told you to change your arguments. It looks like I was wrong. I need a holiday.

My mistake, I was meant to reply to this quote earlier.