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Inviting all JAVA Gurus - Howz Java market???

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ashokccs
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Inviting all JAVA Gurus - Howz Java market???

Post by ashokccs » Tue May 12, 2009 11:34 am

Hi All, this is Ashok with 6+ years of JAVA exp holding a Tier 1.

Intiating this thread to bring all the JAVA professionals under 1 roof with Tier 1 visa (yet to fly) and those already there searching for a job in UK market.

Please feel free to introduce yourself in brief and your experiences in the UK market (if any).
I am sure this knowledge sharing will help all the JAVA'ites in UK as well as those who are about to fly.

Hoping to hear from all of you.
wish U the best job ever.
Ash
Last edited by ashokccs on Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

babunrb
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Post by babunrb » Tue May 12, 2009 6:23 pm

Hi.

This is Babu N R. I have 7+ years experience in Java, J2EE, Struts, Spring and Hibernate. Sun / Oracle certified professional. Have 2 years in SOA. I have 5+ years experience in C++, C# and .NET. Have Microsoft certification too in C# .NET and ASP .NET. 70-536 and the ASP.NET one. Planning to take up WCF/WPF exams soon. Probably in another 4-5 months.

Have been in the UK since 1st November 2008. Mainly focussing on Developer / Sr. Developer or Technical Lead jobs.

I have different resumes to highlight my skills in either Java / C++ / C# .NET, ASP .NET and in some cases I do overlap some skills wherever I find an advantage.

I have accounts with all the big websites like jobserve, jobsite, reed, monstor blah blah. Some 18 different sites.

Tried London, Belfast, Scotland and anywhere in the UK. London is very very competitive. Had a couple of telephonic interviews. Seems it all goes fine. Went to 1 f-f interview. I think I did the interview very well. Second interview they called me for a hands-on test in Manchester. It was 2.5 hrs long. 1 hr Technical written test, 1 hr debugging, half hour discussion on my approach etc.,

3rd Round went to HR interview after 1 week. After that I was told that they found someone with better relevant skills !!!! That too for a salary of £30k+. If they conduct 3 interviews for 30k just imagine. And that too over a period of 2.5 weeks. It takes time to get to interviews and stages between them.

Height of stupidity. Last 2 months market has become very very bad. Here people usually say Apr-June is good. But NOT this year. Competition is also very very extreme. So many people competing for so little jobs. Although mentally I am not exhausted yet. Since I am merely considering the last 6 months as a holiday kind of because I dont have financial issues.

Mar 2009 - May 2009 so far, market has been very very bad. Consultants tell me it is going to continue atleast for 1 more year.

I have taken some alternative approaches - like - downscaling my resume and skillset a bit to tackle lower experience positions. Unfortunately, there too I find people with heavy experience competing against me. And they are Brits, so they are being slightly favoured I feel. Some come with UK experience too.

Contract jobs - no chance to get one. Chicken egg problem on that.

There are some security cleared jobs for which I was not eligible to apply. And I am told I cant get security clearance ever.

Overall, job search has been very bad. And the market situation is also like that. I have some funds parked in my account until another 3-4 months. But honestly, I am not giving myself a penny chance to hit something. But I definitely have a job back in India if I get home by September / October. My ex-boss is starting up after Diwali 09 and has given me the opportunity to consider if I am to come back to Hyderabad. Lets see.

I usually apply to some 20-30 jobs per day. Its a bit tedious for me since I look at .NET c# and java j2ee jobs too.

Usually get 1 or 2 fake calls from consultants to fish my details but by now I can spot them so easily.

Today UK Dept. of Labour and Employment has released statistics that 2.2 million people are unemployed and its already 7.1% here. Worst is that the majority of these are from the highly skilled sectors.

That's my stuff.

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gujalls
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Post by gujalls » Wed May 13, 2009 4:50 am

babunrb,

Thank you very much for sharing your info.
You seem to be such a highly skilled guy with so many certifications. And still not able to get a job.

Then what will be the case for people like me, who is only into Java and with little experience.

I am yet to travel to U.K. I thought I will make a try by end of this year. Seeing your post, I feel that its better to postpone.

Will the new Budget give us any help.

Regards
Guj :roll:

aspire
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Post by aspire » Wed May 13, 2009 4:53 pm

Hai i am also a Java professional with 4 years experience in java struts & spring.I hold a tier 1.Babu's write up really is informative and it scares me to take decision on moving to uk.

babunrb
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Post by babunrb » Thu May 14, 2009 8:04 am

aspire - yeah, sadly, this is a bit true to accept.

We have to be positive and keep trying. But at the same time have clear expectations of what we want to try and for how long. In my case I have some 4 months more. Today BT announced 15k job cuts in the news... wonder where this is all going.

As for the post from the other guy who says the market is great. Well, let me clarify this. Its great, provided you already have a job here, if you have a network and contact here.

Let me tell this clearly, the majority of those who come here dont have a job and neither proper contacts. And in the same vein, if only you had a job and proper contacts, would you be visiting a forum like this to see what else you could differently to get a job ?

Finally, its for people to decide whether to go by majority or influenced by some minority. Its one's view against other. Ultimately, you are going to be affected.

ashokccs
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Post by ashokccs » Thu May 14, 2009 9:54 am

Hi Babu, thanks a ton for shedding the light on the acutual situation from your experiences. I am sure it would help most of us in taking the right decision.
One thing that surprises me is: Y do people post the fake jobs in the job portals (have heard this from many of my frns and from this forum even) so to overcome this I was just thinking of to find a reliable consultant either in India or in UK who can help us in finding a right job... pls do share your thoughts on this and it would be great if you or anyone could refer few of the consultants.

Wishing you all the best for your job hunt... do keep us posted if there is anything new on your end.

Ash.

vishu.gautam
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Post by vishu.gautam » Fri May 15, 2009 9:02 am

Hey Guyz...

I have just got my Tier 1 Stamped in Mar 2009. Am also a Java / J2EE / SOA professional having 5+ yrs exp.

I have lots of doubts about my travel to UK. Could any one of you help address them: -

(1) Procedure to travel to UK after the Visa gets stamped?
(2) Things / Docs I must carry while traveling?
(3) Kind of questions officials can ask at the port of entry?
(4) How much cash I must carry on the flight?
(5) Do I need some kind of accommodation proof?

Thanks in Advance.

kenfrapin
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Post by kenfrapin » Fri May 15, 2009 9:46 am

Hi Vishu,

Answers to help your doubts. Before that just to inform you that the market is not very good. 5+ exp is ok honestly unless Babun RB, who initated this thread, can vouch for that. You say you have SOA experience so then you may stand a chance as that is pickin up a lot here in the Telecoms and Financial sectors.

Babun RB - Dint see this thread before and with your experience if things are bad then I must say it indeed may be the truth. Looks like companies here prefer guys with UK/Europe experience above others.

(1) Procedure to travel to UK after the Visa gets stamped?
Its as simple as buying a ticket and flying out here. Though not sure if you have to carry your X-Ray report now as rules have changes so many times. Of course, please carry some cash in hand. The travelEX inside airports and especially in the EU charge a lot.
(2) Things / Docs I must carry while traveling?
Carry your final University degree and some docs that help establish your identity. Passport should be fine but you can carry your PAN card, Driver's License is important as it is valid here for 12 months. If you have any written recommendations, professional certifications or memberships then carry proof of that
(3) Kind of questions officials can ask at the port of entry?
The key to whatever question they ask is BE CALM. They try to guage if you are a genuine person or not. Of course, please do not tell them point blank that you have savings for just 3 months. They will immediately ask if you plan to then claim benefits and stuff even though you are not entitled to it. Be truthful, they are normal people and they just want to make sure you are genuine. Also, since you have a Tier 1, they wont bother too much
(4) How much cash I must carry on the flight?
I think you can legally carry about £2000. It used to be $5000 as an international rule earlier. Best to carry traveller's cheques as noone will question you. People who have recently travelled will be able to give better advice to you

(5) Do I need some kind of accommodation proof?
Not sure I understand this. I guess you mean if you have to show at immigration if you have arranged for stay. Again, I cannot help you on this. Hope someone can answer this for you.

Just a suggestion - Since you have Tier 1 with so much experience, why not try to join companies in your city with a chance to go onsite? That way you could come here, understand the market and if you like the life and culture here, hunt for a job and move on. That's a much better option that coming out here on your own. Of course, if noone is hiring at the moment then this is not an option.

sashi1979
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Post by sashi1979 » Fri May 15, 2009 3:51 pm

ashok

why people post fake jobs ?

well, for consultants to find good resumes after a job description posted by the company will be too late. So in their best interests they will post fake jobs by preempting standard skillsets... and keep collecting resumes

and once a job request comes - they will try to match the resumes in hand and push it to companies...

remember - there is more competition between consultants to place a candidate. apparently, 15% of a person's CTC can be given to the consultant as commission for finding the candidate. now you see why they post fake jobs to attract resumes ??

Wanderer
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Ireland

Post by Wanderer » Fri May 15, 2009 5:02 pm

sashi1979 wrote:ashok

why people post fake jobs ?

well, for consultants to find good resumes after a job description posted by the company will be too late. So in their best interests they will post fake jobs by preempting standard skillsets... and keep collecting resumes

and once a job request comes - they will try to match the resumes in hand and push it to companies...

remember - there is more competition between consultants to place a candidate. apparently, 15% of a person's CTC can be given to the consultant as commission for finding the candidate. now you see why they post fake jobs to attract resumes ??

They do it to generate a CV harvest to tempt potential employers, I have that from the horse's mouth. They are reward per CV harvested as well as positions placed.
An chéad stad eile Stáisiún Uí Chonghaile....

kenfrapin
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Post by kenfrapin » Sat May 16, 2009 2:00 pm

Let me give you another example of how these 'fake' agents work

1. They advertise a non existent job and lure good candidates - some of whom are even currently working in good jobs
2. In case of unemployed candidates - They ask the candidate if they have applied anywhere else so they can then contact that company directly and try to find a candidate. Agents get a huge commission for placing a single candidate in a top company. So they post a fake job requiring 5+ yrs exp, get people interested, find out other openings these people have already applied for and go and directly speak to that company!
3. In case of working people trying to change jobs, agents find out the company you are working for and then actually call that company to tell them that you are planning to leave and they can fill the post with a much more loyal and better candidate and maybe for a lesser pay as well!!!
4. Sometimes they do the above with the references you give. They call the reference to validate your skills and when they find the chance, they pounce and ask if they can find a candidate for the position that you are vacating or planning to vacate!

And if nothing else, they will just collect resumes and build their database which keeps them in good standing in the market.

It's sad but this is how it happens. And what I have written is what has been experienced by my peers first hand and that's why the advice from us to just be a little more careful with such 'fake' agents

Cheers
KP

ashokccs
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Post by ashokccs » Wed May 27, 2009 10:48 am

Hi All, thanks for joining and sharing your experience & knowledge.

Inorder to make this thread more JAVA specific, I would request the ones already in their Jobs/Trials in Uk to kindly share their Job or the Job Trial experiences, like; the reliable Job portals, Interview process,
pls do throw some light on any kind of difficulties faced in your hunt for Survival.

Request you All to kindly participate and educate all the aspirants dreaming for a UK job.

Thanks for your Supports & help,
Ash.

vishu.gautam
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Post by vishu.gautam » Thu May 28, 2009 11:34 am

Thanks kenfrapin for all the replies.

phoenixlipo
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Post by phoenixlipo » Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:10 am

hi all java guru,
i have problem in the concept of Applet.
can any one have the simplest way of learning Applet?

aditbhiday
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Useful Link

Post by aditbhiday » Tue Sep 01, 2009 12:16 pm

I found the following link to be fairly useful in terms of getting information about what java related technologies are popular and the market trend as far as java jobs are concerned. It does seem to indicate that java jobs have reduced by more than 50 % since last year.

http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/jobs/uk/java.do

Although I cannot verify the vearcity of the source, the information does look pretty detailed and well compiled.

t1guk
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Current job market -- Java

Post by t1guk » Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:52 am

I saw those statistics on that website. Has the job market recently improved?

I have a tier1 visa and am debating whether to drop by a couple of weeks in end-November or wait until January or do both. I have applied to lots of Java jobs (jobsite, reed, CWjobs), but haven't had even a phone interview yet! The few recruiters who responded asked when I would be in the UK. They weren't optimistic about me getting an interview while overseas or even about the job market, though one of them did mention that the market was improving. Every recruiter asked me for my UK address and phone number!

I won't get unpaid vacation from my employer, so will have to quit my job and then get to the UK and look for jobs. I'm also concerned that looking for a job without having one would be looked at negatively!

How long does it take to get an interview call?

kenfrapin
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Post by kenfrapin » Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:44 am

You are referring to the oldest problem in the book. No company will ever bother interviewing you if you are not available within the UK, unless of course you are vying for a top executive job and you have 20 yrs experience running a company :-)

For all other mortal souls like us, it is a very difficult choice which has been discussed in so many posts earlier as well. There is no use at all of applying for roles on the net. Consultants will toss your CV aside as soon as they see you are out of UK.

The job market is improving but not that much that you get calls easily. It is only an improvement from maybe 6 months back. Once again - you need to think if you are looking to contract or working in a permanent job.
There will be some contract or temp work but no perm jobs until next year now as many companies wind down for XMas and concentrate on completing ongoing projects in Nov / Dec. Perm hiring always reduces during winter time.

Interviewing always is a long process in the UK but again depends on the urgency of the role. It can take anywhere from 15 days to 2 months and you have to be patient. Feb / March 2010 is your best bet if you have to quit your job and come. It is a tough decision but anyway you look at it, you will have to quit your old job to come here and search for a job in earnest

All the best
KP

ashishs123
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Post by ashishs123 » Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:40 am

Hi KP -

I am holding Tier 1 Visa and planning to come over to UK in March. Actually I delayed my plan because job market doesn't sound any lucrative these days.

Whats your opinion regarding the market bouncing back in March. Would it be a marginal improvement or it would be substantial one.

Any help and view in this would be helpful. TIA

kenfrapin
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Post by kenfrapin » Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:38 am

That's a million dollar question and a lottery answer my friend - Who can ever give an answer to such a question????

8) 8) 8)

ukhsmp
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Post by ukhsmp » Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:27 pm

Hi ,
I have around 5+ yrs of exp in Java/J2ee. I got my Tier-1 visa in Nov 2008. But Since the Market was down I did not opt to go. I got a chance to go for onsite in my company so I took that chance and currently I am in U.S. The Tier-1 Visa is for 3yrs. Since in my company I might be sent back to india in next yr Apr-May. I am just thinking of planning to come over to UK once I am reaching india. Since my brother is already in U.K I should not have any accomodation problem. Can you please suggest me what my chances might be.
ukhsmp

t1guk
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Thanks!

Post by t1guk » Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:58 pm

kenfrapin - Thanks for your reply! 2 months for interview to hire does seem long! I am open to both contract and permanent jobs so i'll keep trying, though the number of jobs on the itjobswatch website is about a third of the peak in 2007. And just this morning the news is that the UK is still in recession unlike France or Germany. Tough times indeed! I guess I'll just have to wait longer for fish and chips!

ukhsmp - I guess kenfrapin's reply says it all!

Good luck to all!

kenfrapin
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Post by kenfrapin » Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:20 pm

ukhsmp - Cant' help you here....hope u have been readin the threads properly... it all depends on your skills and what you can offer. More importantly are you tryin for contractin or perm roles? Unlike earlier contracts these days are just 3 to 6 months and perm jobs offer very low salaries...u have to be lucky to et long term contracts or very experienced to get top payin perm roles.....if u have skills in a niche area then even better....general IT and consultancy skills will get u nowhere

t1guk - if you really are ready to contract, are a free bird and dont have any responsibilities or dependants then come on over.....good opportunities to contract are there during the Xmas break and you can build UK experience....come Jan and Feb 2010, contractin and perm jobs will increase and peak round about august...so its all up there to gamble...

As i said...perm jobs can take upto 2 months in big companies, while contractin roles should usually not take more than 2 weeks.....the ball's in your court....if u believe, u will succeed....i know its tough....but its a tough world we all live in :-)

Cheers
KP

ukhsmp
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Post by ukhsmp » Sun Oct 25, 2009 4:06 pm

Hi kenfrapin,
Thanks for your reply. I am initially looking for any contract and move on to permanent job. I have 2 dependents who will come to UK. but they will be coming only after I get a proper job.
ukhsmp

kenfrapin
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Post by kenfrapin » Sun Oct 25, 2009 6:20 pm

Sounds like a good plan. It is your choice but I suggest that if you get a contract job for 4 to 6 months only then consider getting you family because the pay can keep you going even if you dont get another role after the contract.
All depends on your risk appetite and the offers you get once you are here. An initial contract of 2 months with no future guarantee of work has an huge underlying risk if you get your dependants.

Just come here prepared with the fact that it may take upto 6 months or longer to get your dependants here.

All the best to you :-)
KP

screamaway
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Re: Thanks!

Post by screamaway » Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:34 am

t1guk wrote:kenfrapin - Thanks for your reply! 2 months for interview to hire does seem long! I am open to both contract and permanent jobs so i'll keep trying, though the number of jobs on the itjobswatch website is about a third of the peak in 2007. And just this morning the news is that the UK is still in recession unlike France or Germany. Tough times indeed! I guess I'll just have to wait longer for fish and chips!

ukhsmp - I guess kenfrapin's reply says it all!

Good luck to all!
2 months is long?
Are you kidding? One of my friend has been searching for a job nearly for 6 months..

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