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mulderpf
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Location: London

Post by mulderpf » Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:09 am

nshar1 wrote: I would suggest that you do your research before advising people. Recruiters account for less than 40% of all recruitment in UK. Do you want people to loose out on the remaining 60%
Where do you get these figures from and which industries do they apply to, because that seems like a gross generalisation to me. Also, does the "remaining" 60% include internal hires and referrals or actual hires from outside?

I saw some statistics the other day regarding the number of IT positions filled by recruitment agents vs direct hires and whilst I cannot remember the exact figures, your statement does not support this whatsoever. The article explained that if you basically remove internal hires and referrals from the equation, you are left with pure "recruitment vs direct hire" figures and this was closer to a 90 / 10 split in favour of recruitment. Often "new position" figures include internal hires which skew the figures as it is not clear then that this position would have never even hit the public domain.

kenfrapin
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Post by kenfrapin » Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:12 am

I dont think there is any point clarifying things with Nshar1 as he seems to be take things personally and shows a lot of immaturity on how to progress a logical discussion
:roll:

KP

nshar1
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Posts: 116
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Post by nshar1 » Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:32 am

Anybody looking for roles in java please let me know and I can guide you for which companies are recruiting directly.

nshar1
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Posts: 116
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:03 am

Post by nshar1 » Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:34 am

kenfrapin wrote:I dont think there is any point clarifying things with Nshar1 as he seems to be take things personally and shows a lot of immaturity on how to progress a logical discussion
:roll:

KP
You are the immature one buddy. You do not get a single thing into your head. Lets stop the mud-slinging.

nshar1
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Posts: 116
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:03 am

Post by nshar1 » Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:37 am

mulderpf wrote:
nshar1 wrote: I would suggest that you do your research before advising people. Recruiters account for less than 40% of all recruitment in UK. Do you want people to loose out on the remaining 60%
Where do you get these figures from and which industries do they apply to, because that seems like a gross generalisation to me. Also, does the "remaining" 60% include internal hires and referrals or actual hires from outside?

I saw some statistics the other day regarding the number of IT positions filled by recruitment agents vs direct hires and whilst I cannot remember the exact figures, your statement does not support this whatsoever. The article explained that if you basically remove internal hires and referrals from the equation, you are left with pure "recruitment vs direct hire" figures and this was closer to a 90 / 10 split in favour of recruitment. Often "new position" figures include internal hires which skew the figures as it is not clear then that this position would have never even hit the public domain.
I got my figures from a MBA university database. Although I can't forward these research reports to anybody(for obvious reasons-copyright constraints), I am happy to share them with anybody who wants to meet me and look at them.

PakKnight
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Location: UK

Post by PakKnight » Thu Aug 04, 2011 12:38 pm

nshar1 wrote:
mulderpf wrote:
nshar1 wrote: I would suggest that you do your research before advising people. Recruiters account for less than 40% of all recruitment in UK. Do you want people to loose out on the remaining 60%
Where do you get these figures from and which industries do they apply to, because that seems like a gross generalisation to me. Also, does the "remaining" 60% include internal hires and referrals or actual hires from outside?

I saw some statistics the other day regarding the number of IT positions filled by recruitment agents vs direct hires and whilst I cannot remember the exact figures, your statement does not support this whatsoever. The article explained that if you basically remove internal hires and referrals from the equation, you are left with pure "recruitment vs direct hire" figures and this was closer to a 90 / 10 split in favour of recruitment. Often "new position" figures include internal hires which skew the figures as it is not clear then that this position would have never even hit the public domain.
I got my figures from a MBA university database. Although I can't forward these research reports to anybody(for obvious reasons-copyright constraints), I am happy to share them with anybody who wants to meet me and look at them.

My personal opinion is that finding a Job via a Recruitment Agency is very difficult due to the fact they are more interested in gaining their comission, more than any thing. (You cant blame them though as they have to feed their families aswell).

Also most of them dont know the skill set of the applicant fully and hence can not promote them in the proper manner. The level of service provided by most of these recruiters is poor as they dont staty in touch as to the progress of your application, to be fair though they normally state that if you dont receive a reply within a certain amount of time you should assume your application was unsuccessful.

Most companies now though go through these recruiters/agency to save themselves costs. So although applying directly may be a better option as it will allow you to sell yourself better, finding a job directly is very difficult.

tier1_applicant
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Post by tier1_applicant » Thu Aug 04, 2011 4:42 pm

Is not this true that contract jobs are primarily through agents?
I mean we may easily find permanent jobs on company sites but not the contract ones. So only option is recruitment consultants in this case.

scottferguson
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Post by scottferguson » Thu Aug 04, 2011 4:55 pm

Nshar1,

I was looking at this post and found your confident comments interesting. I would like to show another post(from 2007) of yours. Especially look at the last sentence.

[quote="nshar1"]I see lots of discussion threads about "UK or not , beloved, UK vs Canada".

Look at the ordeal of my HSMP application and decide for yourself what kind of country UK is going to be.
Each and everything here is a fact. Anybody wants a proof of what I have mentioned, please let me know.

I think India is much better in this sense..atleast our work gets done.

This is the letter I had written to the Complain cell of HSMP and now sharing with you:


< My complete address and email>
<date>

Complaints and Compensation Team
Work Permits(UK), Managed Migration Directorate
PO Box 3468, Sheffield
S3 8WA

Subject: Complaint about non delivery of HSMP application Decision Letter
Dear Sir,
This is in reference to my HSMP application filed in the first week of January-2007(Ref# 203XXX). I would like to bring to your kind notice that a decision was taken on my application on XX-Feb-2007, but a decision letter hasn’t yet reached me despite my best efforts to obtain the same from HSMP team.
The HSMP team had lost my original documents including original degree certificates and marks cards. They claim that the docs have been lost in transit (sent by normal airmail)

I had to wait for 12 weeks before they declare the airmail as lost, after which only I could request for a reprint. At the completion of 12-weeks, I promptly requested them to issue me a reprint. I clearly stated in the request letter that I would be arranging a courier at my own cost to get the decision letter collected. If you check, each and every communication from my end for reprint has a clear mention that I desire to arrange a courier at my cost for collecting the decision letter.

After waiting for 5+ weeks after reprint request and in-spite of my request for courier arrangement, the reprint letter was again sent by normal airmail on 29-May-2007. From the communication from HSP team, I realize that the address to which they have sent this letter is carelessly incomplete. The address doesn’t include “xxxx lineâ€
Last edited by scottferguson on Thu Aug 04, 2011 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

nshar1
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Posts: 116
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:03 am

Post by nshar1 » Thu Aug 04, 2011 4:57 pm

tier1_applicant wrote:Is not this true that contract jobs are primarily through agents?
I mean we may easily find permanent jobs on company sites but not the contract ones. So only option is recruitment consultants in this case.
I believe thats true. I have never seen a contract job directly from a company.

Manu_here
Junior Member
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Location: BANGALORE

Post by Manu_here » Thu Aug 04, 2011 5:39 pm

Hi,

As far as contract job is considered most of the consultant need Security Clearance/EU passport and so on and so forth so more that 80% contract
job chance is ruined by these conditions .

I just wanted to ask is getting interview here is such a big task or this is not the proper time (summer vacation).
BTW i have pretty good exp in my domain with MNC's and relevant certifications and even jobs which are exactly matching my skills i am not called for interview.

At present i am using following ways for applying jobs:

-Applying to jobs posted by consultants from job portals such as cwjobs,moster,jobsites,jobserve,totaljobs.londonjobs etc.

-Applying to relevant jobs after searching in linkedin.

-Some direct jobs may be try to apply more direct jobs i guess.

I will be waiting for some 20 days so that atleast i should have some interview scheduled otherwise will have to go back .If interview is also not being scheduled for me then there is no point staying.

Thanks,
Manu

t1s2010
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Location: London

Post by t1s2010 » Thu Aug 04, 2011 6:12 pm

nshar1 - kenfrapin bhai bhai!!!

Lets close it now and focus on the question.

Manu, I guess, summer vacation may be a good reason for it (apart from the fact, that calls depends on A. market condition B. 'HOT' skill at the moment).

I second you on the summer vacation reason, because I heard it from a pretty senior person (a CTO) who has dealt with UK counterparts a lot.

Good Luck!!!

nshar1
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Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:03 am

Post by nshar1 » Thu Aug 04, 2011 6:45 pm

scottferguson wrote:
And you are in the same country. What right you have to advice people? Dont be so self centric.

I found this discussion quiet useful for jobseekers though.
I never forced you ...You have a choice..Don't take the suggestion and never apply directly to companies.
First fundamental of a good discussion is concentrate on the subject.
Why are you getting personal - its my wish where I want to be - who the hell you are to tell me about my personal life??

Could you stop the crap now so that we can concentrate on the subject.

I am not open to personal suggestions or attacks.

scottferguson
Newly Registered
Posts: 12
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Post by scottferguson » Thu Aug 04, 2011 7:15 pm

nshar1 wrote:
scottferguson wrote:
And you are in the same country. What right you have to advice people? Dont be so self centric.

I found this discussion quiet useful for jobseekers though.
I never forced you ...You have a choice..Don't take the suggestion and never apply directly to companies.
First fundamental of a good discussion is concentrate on the subject.
Why are you getting personal - its my wish where I want to be - who the hell you are to tell me about my personal life??

Could you stop the crap now so that we can concentrate on the subject.

I am not open to personal suggestions or attacks.
Sorry, not meant a personal attack. I thought your posts actually misleading by overemphasising the direct apply approach which could result in unnecessary disappointment for a job seeker. I just meant to say to the the job seekers not to give value to that opinion as your opinion itself revolves only around your experiences. The quote was just an example about the shortsightness.

I was a bit angry because you said negative things about a country just because of your personal experiences with the HO. And you are here at last!

kenfrapin
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Contact:

Post by kenfrapin » Sat Aug 06, 2011 11:26 pm

I know I may get more flak from the 'great one' for writing this but honestly, dont wast your time stating the obvious or pointing out flaws in logic at those who dont bother to listen :P

All said and done, from my relatively simplistic and inexperienced life, recruitment firms are a more proven way of getting your CV, as long as it's valid, evaluated and short listed for an interview quicker than directly applying....mainly because the agents, no matter how bad they are, are far better than the HR people of identifying some potential....

I do agree that the best route is referrals as its get a lot more importance if flagged by an employee and gets pushed up pretty quick...but realistically, how many first timers coming to the UK actually have the luxury of this option? So IF you leave aside contracting, referrals, first timers, pathetic recruitment agents and factor in excellent in house company HR teams, direct application is always the best......

KP :twisted:

nshar1
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Post by nshar1 » Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:47 pm

kenfrapin wrote:I know I may get more flak from the 'great one' for writing this but honestly, dont wast your time stating the obvious or pointing out flaws in logic at those who dont bother to listen :P

All said and done, from my relatively simplistic and inexperienced life, recruitment firms are a more proven way of getting your CV, as long as it's valid, evaluated and short listed for an interview quicker than directly applying....mainly because the agents, no matter how bad they are, are far better than the HR people of identifying some potential....

I do agree that the best route is referrals as its get a lot more importance if flagged by an employee and gets pushed up pretty quick...but realistically, how many first timers coming to the UK actually have the luxury of this option? So IF you leave aside contracting, referrals, first timers, pathetic recruitment agents and factor in excellent in house company HR teams, direct application is always the best......

KP :twisted:
Thanks KP! Thanks for accepting the fact that there is more than one way of job search..thats all I wanted to convey !
My language may have been tough(but respectful) which has put off three people...but hopefully other people have seen the good intentions.

Now, lets get on with the discussion at hand.

Manu - hopefully you have seen the uptick in the job market as the holiday season is getting over and managers are coming back to work.

Manu_here
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Location: BANGALORE

Post by Manu_here » Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:54 am

Hi,

This week and next week is going to be most crucial from my perspective as i expect managers and recruiters to come back from holidays and market to be back to normal.I am keeping my fingers crossed and hoping for the best let c how it goes

Thanks,
Manu

karg_g
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Posts: 120
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 6:13 pm
Location: UK

Post by karg_g » Tue Aug 09, 2011 6:31 pm

Manu Mate!!

Hang in there, you will get the job, i am absolutely sure. Came here on Apr2nd and till last Monday had one F2F interview. Then out of nowhere one of my friend fwded my resume to his friend in UK and then i got a call from recruiter on Monday night.(1-Aug-11). The funny thing is i had sent the same CV to the recruiter as well through jobserve. Had telephonic interview on 04-Aug and F2F on 08-Aug-11 and got the good news the same night!! Now awaiting the official email/paperwork abt the contract.

So hang in there mate. You will get it.

Btw, i have 533 conversations in my gmail a/c with respect to UK jobs and modified my CV with better keywords for almost after applying the first two months! So far i have made 35 types of resumes from mid June until Aug. I gave up hope but had a good set of friends and family to pull me thorough. I also have 7 yr experience but in RF environment.

Just keep your options open, apply to jobs that you think will be good fit, medium fit, decent fit. Don't apply for bad fit. Also try linkedin, facebook, you never know where is your next employer :)

Never thought i will send msg to anyone, but cud sense your frustration and agony. Been there, done that :)

Don't worry to much abt money, I bought my wife here with me and so far i have burnt almost 3K quid.
Best wishes,
Karg

PS: Ping me with sweet box :) and folks pls-pls-pls stop mud slinging.. :D :D

Manu_here
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Location: BANGALORE

Post by Manu_here » Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:46 pm

Karg_g what an awesome newssssssssss.....really happy for you and thanks for motivation and encouragement and thanks for your detail mail and
things to do...
I have been doing most of the things mentioned by you .
I keep on adding/deleting keywords in my resume but have not made 35 Cvs,my count might be 8 Cvs and i have 2-3 different profile Cvs..

I am seeing lot of matching jobs but get frustated when they ask for SC when called ...half of jobs are going like ..some jobs consultant don't like my CV and some client and ultimately at the end of day a after waiting for around 10-15 days just for feedback of resume they come up with answer that assume no as we have not received any answer from client and i am sorry for that....
At the end of day you are remained with nothing but to start from scratch as if you just came here in UK.I don't feel urgency/importance of ours situation.

Let c how much more time i am able to sustain ...

Thanks,
Manu


PS:Karg_g happy for u and we need sweets from ur side ..just kidding..Enjoy

scottferguson
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Post by scottferguson » Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:45 pm

kenfrapin wrote:I know I may get more flak from the 'great one' for writing this but honestly, dont wast your time stating the obvious or pointing out flaws in logic at those who dont bother to listen :P


KP :twisted:
point taken :-)

Manu_here
Junior Member
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:25 am
Location: BANGALORE

Post by Manu_here » Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:11 pm

I just wanted to ask experienced guys in UK .

Let us suppose any job is advertised in Job portal and its matching somebody's profile on what basis consultant and clients selects resume for interview .
If somebody can tell/suggest me anything related to this ,i would be really grateful and accordingly modify my resume .I am seeing even jobs which are exactly matching i am getting mails unsuccessful mails for interview.

Thanks,
Manu

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