ESC

Click the "allow" button if you want to receive important news and updates from immigrationboards.com


Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Welcome to immigrationboards.com!

Login Register Do not show

The UK Job Market - some facts to help you

Employers looking for workers, people looking for employers: Get connected here.

Moderators: Casa, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, Zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, push, Administrator

Locked
kenfrapin
Senior Member
Posts: 601
Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 8:07 pm
Contact:

The UK Job Market - some facts to help you

Post by kenfrapin » Wed May 13, 2009 8:35 pm

Hi All,

It's my first post here so let me start with a quick intro. I have been visiting this board for over 5 months now and mainly to understand the immigration rules for my Tier 1 Visa. I am happy to say I did get it a month back.

I have been going through this section of the forum constantly to see how job seekers are fairing and what advice has been given to help you out, and honestly, there havent been too many instances of experienced answers being given here.

Living here since quite some time now, I finally decided to pen down a few thoughts to actually state some TRUE facts as I have a lot of close friends who are working permanently, job hunting, contracting and even studying. I hope the below will be helpful to you in some way or the other. Please note that since I work in the IT Telecoms field, my experience is biased towards the Software Sector only (but may hold good for other sectors as well)

The job market - So is it that bad? The answer is 'maybe' and why this is so is because it plainly depends on the experience you showcase. Let's get one fact very clear, it is MUCH easier to get a job here than in my home country, India (I cant vouch for other countries), at any experience level apart from maybe under 2 years. Final Interviews are technically driven, no doubt, but a lot of emphasis is laid on the work you have done in the past and that's where they catch you out.
If you have a job, with little or no savings, or with family and commitments, then this is not the right time to take a gamble and come here. If you can survive for 6 to 8 months, then come here and try your luck. It's a gamble again but if you are good you wont have to wait for more than a month or two. Trust me, my friends are already changing jobs, getting new contracts and so on. The market isnt 'dead' as so many people are saying. If you dont do things right, you wont be that successful in getting a job quickly, simple!

The Contracting route - It may be a shock to you but UK companies prefer contractors to permanent staff. Contracting here is only built through your networks and contacts, agents are almost useless in finding roles unless, once again, your experience is so great that noone can afford to NOT hire you. Contractors get paid well because 99% of the contracts wont cros 3 to 4 months. You need to remember that working as a contractor means constantly hunting for new roles and that may be difficult if you have no NEW network or contacts. You will actually end up poorer if you work for 3 months and sit home for the next 3 months.

The Jobsites and Consultants- There are some really good websites, well atleast for Software Engineers out here. There are great consultants as well who are genuine. If you go applying nilly willy for every single job and keep posting different versions of your resume, you will get caught out. And as many have said before, it's easier if you have a UK address and contact number to actually make them call you up.

Your Resume / CV - We tend to think the bigger the resume, the greater the resource a person is and that's not right here. Your resume, should at the worst case not be more than 5 pages. 3 is ideal and if they need more details, they will ask so dont cramp it up. Avoid obvious stuff in your CV. Be smart in putting details in. Dont say you have a Tier 1 because most of them have no clue about visas. Dont over explain your skills, say it once and they understand - you are writing it in English right? Dont put any recommendations, objectives, silly extracurriculars because they dont see that first. The CV is meant to sell a person and that person is you. When you read it yourself, you should feel like hiring the person. And please, dont ever have a spelling mistake in the CV, the agents will just throw it away. Same goes for grammar, tense and verbs used. Be very careful and if required ask any of your friends to proof read it.


Finally - ENGLISH - When an agent calls you, they will decide in just 60 to 90secs if they will actually forward your resume or not. So what do they know in 90secs you may think. They are not technical Gods right? All they know is how well you speak, how you conduct yourself and if you are really as great as your CV says you are. Whether you have 2 or 20 yrs exp, those 90secs decides it all. They are not biased or dearly beloved, if you are good then you are in. If they send resumes to companies that they dont like, then they will lose business from that company. So if they have ANY doubts on your ability, they wont take the risk. So even if you are truly talented, the job is lost because you dint give them the right impression. Spend a lot of time mastering the way you speak, your annotations, your pauses and again the words you use. I have seen so many guys asking and replying to questions here. If that's the real way you actually speak, then your chances are very very slim.

I hope the above is useful and I am happy to answer any sensible questions asked out here. All of the above are my opinions alone, and I may be wrong so dont try and hunt me down :-)
If you dont like it then dont accept it and for those who honestly have the skills and the will to succeed, please heed to some of the advice given.

All the best to you guys!
Cheers
KP

bruceb
Junior Member
Posts: 78
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 8:52 am

Post by bruceb » Thu May 14, 2009 4:10 am

I concur, every word you have written, bottomline is if you have applied for Tier1 and have a Visa, you ought to think positive, do all that's necessary to seek an opportunity, postively. If the environment is bad, people are bad, why in the first place have to sought a Visa?

babunrb
Newly Registered
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue May 12, 2009 5:56 pm

Post by babunrb » Thu May 14, 2009 8:11 am

Kenfrapin,

Although some of your writing is the fact, you border heavily on some of the impossibles.

You cant change the way you speak english over night. So the 90 second rule is a bit impossible. You could say its in your interests to change / fake your accent. I personally think the more you fake the more dangerous you get close to the high tide. You have every chance of being swept away.

Your friends have been able to seek new contracts, better offers etc.,.. Well thats my point. Because your friends have already been in a job here for sometime now. I assume atleast for a year by now. What you dont seem to understand is cracking the egg open the first time. The egg looks fragile, but for some of us outsiders its a hard shell. Again, to answer bruce - as I said, why some of us outsiders try to get a visa and find a job is because, from the outside it looks like an egg.

Contractors - Networks - well if only we had contacts / networks to find contracts - as I said earlier, we wouldnt be hanging around these forums... we would have been busy in our jobs by now.

Well, I am not trying to hunt your post down nor your views. But I suggest that there are alternate views to your writing. Otherwise, I do appreciate your thoughts on CV writing and importance of english etc.,

bruceb
Junior Member
Posts: 78
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 8:52 am

Post by bruceb » Thu May 14, 2009 9:22 am

Babunrb,
IMHO, It's not about accent, it's about speaking effectively, people know that you have come from India and they don't expect you to speak in English accent anyway.
And the egg/Visa thing, better fry an omlette out of it, there's no way i would let the Egg perish just like that man :-)

kenfrapin
Senior Member
Posts: 601
Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 8:07 pm
Contact:

Post by kenfrapin » Thu May 14, 2009 11:00 am

Hi baburb,

Well I think you read me wrong on the 'improve' your English part - I never once spoke of faking an accent, please never do that! People here dont want you to 'sound' English, they only want you to speak proper English. I was hinting more towards emphatic communication and it was for people who are trying their luck in the UK for the first time

And one thing you are right about is cracking the market for the first time. My friends have been here for a while now and so the UK experience does hold more weight than others. That being said, I also know few guys who have got jobs solely on their overseas experience and just moved in to the UK. I still honestly feel that if you have the experience, the market is not a graveyard.

My intention is to make worthy experienced guys a little more optimistic than the tone of most people. It isnt all that bad is what I am trying to say. And maybe with a little bit of effort, you could crack the egg!! But honestly speaking, freshers (in the UK sense of the word) would find it a lot more difficult than others, though I still reserve me belief that if you have 5 plus years of solid work exp, you will definitely get a job here

Cheers
KP

sashi1979
Newbie
Posts: 46
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:18 pm

Post by sashi1979 » Fri May 15, 2009 3:59 pm

kenfrapin,

i appreciate your optimistic writing. however, i have been here for 8 months now and feel that UK experience counts a lot... which I dont have. Yes I am 6+ years experienced but I dont know if you are presently looking for a position.. the fact remains that the present scenario is not as good as you have suggested... for people who dont have enough in their kitty - it could really prove disastrous.

remember - lets not confuse caution with fear. potential immigrants have to be cautious. i think if they are cautious enough - they will time their trip and can benefit accordingly. lot of people in India are totally unaware of life around here - they simply think getting a visa will land them a job - such illusions have to be wiped out.. if you visit the BC in any of the metros you will see 3+ 4+ engineers think life out here is cake walk... well it isnt is my point.

And I definitely think that you can secure a position in india much faster, easier and quicker than here. Here they look at you for a long term, not just the 1-2 years how they expect in India and where they mould you over a period of time.. here, you project yourself to your employer as to where you could fit in over a period of time...

most indians lack that. and get caught in the glare !
so remember - before you make it look too optimistic - you also need to forewarn people about potential issues out here... which i find your message missed out.

netacct
Member
Posts: 241
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 9:51 pm

Post by netacct » Fri May 15, 2009 6:18 pm

I think, everyone has got different experience...some people are lucky...some are not...I have heard both the positive and negative experience through the word of mouth...there are people from India who got jobs during this recession, some couldn't even for months...there are English people who are out of job for more than six month, my English work colleague told me that...
So everyone has to to do their homework properly...

if I were to add my two cent (also mentioned by quite few others)

1. UK Experience matters a lot for general skill sets...if there is too much supply here....

2. Come here if you can survive without job for few months...

One size does not fit all...

kenfrapin
Senior Member
Posts: 601
Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 8:07 pm
Contact:

Post by kenfrapin » Sat May 16, 2009 1:50 pm

Dear Sashi1979 and netacct,

Both your views and statements are totally valid and I wont take anything away from what you have written.
The first thing I mentioned in my post was my reason for writing in which was to balance the complete negative atmosphere on the job hunt process here. There are key things that still do not change no matter my optimism

- Even the English are finding it difficult to find jobs and many of them are very well experienced. This shows 2 things - having UK experience is not the only thing that counts. And second, the market is very tight out here

- Yes, depending on ones outlook, you can argue whether getting a job in India is easier than here or not. My take on it was pointed towards the actual depth of technicality in the actual interviews once a person gets there. It's easier to close a deal here than elsewhere, atleast from what I know

- And it is very very true that most people think securing a visa means 80% of the job is done and securing a job of any kind is a formality. Well it used to be that way maybe 2 years back but whereas earlier you had 5 genuine applicants for a post you now have 20 for the same. Hence the question of being the best fit comes a lot more into question now, including how you fit into the organization, your long term goals etc. Again, putting all these together, securing the final job is a little easier than elsewhere because employers see much more in a person than just plain technical skills.

- Luck always plays a big factor. As i had written, agents who have no idea of the difference between Java and .NET will be your first big hurdle. 9 out of 10 times, intelligent and deserving candidates lose out in this process and it is not at all because they are technically lacking in their field of work.

Finally, to the rest in this forum, it is never easy when you pack your bags and come to Europe to get out and find jobs. This coupled with understanding English culture, knowing what an employer tries to see in you and having the patience to sit and wait is really very testing. You need to have the patience, project yourself well and cross your fingers for Lady luck to be on your side.

But I maintain that the job market is NOT dead, tougher definitely, but not dead. If you do come here, make sure you can easily stay put for 6 to 8 months else don't even bother coz it's not easy anymore. And be confident that you are one of the best in your field, being positive makes a big difference in the way you speak, think and project yourself to the interviewer. If you are a winner, then nothing can stop you from being successful in the UK.

Cheers
KP

deepa_nebu
Newly Registered
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:11 pm
Contact:

Post by deepa_nebu » Thu May 21, 2009 11:00 am

Good discussion! Thanks for writing first KP.
Gives some encouragement in this bugging slow job search stage!
cheers, deepa.

UK_Boy_Rahul
Newly Registered
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat May 30, 2009 10:19 am

Post by UK_Boy_Rahul » Sun May 31, 2009 2:57 pm

kenfrapin & all other repliers... thanks for such a nice discussion... I am the next victim of credit crunch....Have just prepared my CV for job mission...

kingK
Newly Registered
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:19 pm

Post by kingK » Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:25 pm

Guys how about a T2 guys trying out for a job in the market now? A J2ee with 6+ years? any hope? with 6 months Uk exp

girlinLondon
Newbie
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:54 pm
Location: London

Suggestions needed

Post by girlinLondon » Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:24 am

I had been working in the UK from Nov 07 - Mar09 for my current employer [Indian]. I had moved to the Tier 1 visa in February. However at the end of March my current employer sent me back to India as our project came to an end. I have the following queries:

1. Is it wise to wait again till my current employer sends me to UK and then start looking for a job?
2. How well does a 3 years 9 months experience in Testing stand a chance to get a job? [1 year 6 months UK experience]
3. Are there any implications of being outside UK with a Tier 1 visa for a long time?

Thanks.

rajesh9pl
Senior Member
Posts: 857
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 9:40 am
Mood:

Post by rajesh9pl » Thu Jun 25, 2009 8:37 am

1. Yes. Current job market is pathetic. As long you have job in India with current employer, you must continue.
2. Its all about demand. When there is very low demand, as it is currently, even 5-10 years experience guys will struggle.
3. None, except Permnent Residency/ILR etc, otherwise just chill. You can enter into UK as long you have visa validity.

girlinLondon
Newbie
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:54 pm
Location: London

Post by girlinLondon » Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:33 am

rajesh9pl wrote:1. Yes. Current job market is pathetic. As long you have job in India with current employer, you must continue.
2. Its all about demand. When there is very low demand, as it is currently, even 5-10 years experience guys will struggle.
3. None, except Permnent Residency/ILR etc, otherwise just chill. You can enter into UK as long you have visa validity.
Thank you.

kenfrapin
Senior Member
Posts: 601
Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 8:07 pm
Contact:

Post by kenfrapin » Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:52 am

One thing to note on point 3,

You can enter the UK anytime as long as your visa is valid BUT in order to extend it, you must have worked for the previous 12 months preceding your application.

So if your visa was issued on Feb 2009 until Feb 2012, you need to be back in the UK and on a full time job from Feb 2011 to be able to meet the existing visa extension rules and apply for a fresh skilled/tier 1 visa

Cheers
KP

Locked
cron