Entry to Spain via 2004/38/EC for non EU citizen

phil_uk · Post by **phil_uk** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:33 am

Hi, after so much searing the net I finally found this excellent forum!

Iâ€™m a British citizen living with my Thai girlfriend as unmarried partners here in Thailand for the last four and a half years.

We want to move to Spain exercising my treaty rights in accordance with Article 3(2) (b) of the European Parliament and Council Directive 2004/38/EC states that the Beneficiaries entitled to a permit include,

â€œthe partner with whom the Union citizen has a durable relationship, duly attested.â€

Post by **Obie** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:38 am

Please see THIS INFORMATION

phil_uk · Post by **phil_uk** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:40 am

thanks, however that link is dead.

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:00 am

phil_uk wrote:thanks, however that link is dead.

Works for me! Having said that, it opens a pdf, on a Mac this just works and opens in Safari, on Winbloze you'll probably have to download a 93mb 'viewer' from Adobe, run the installer, reboot, fix the Blue Screen Of Death, call Microsoft, see a Doctor and consider suicide as an option.

phil_uk · Post by **phil_uk** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:24 am

Thanks for the link, its working now. However, it doesnâ€™t answer my question,

What do the Spanish authorities require to see to verify our durable relationship?

Also where the directive states, â€œthe partner with whom the Union citizen has a durable relationship, duly attested.â€

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:36 am

[quote="phil_uk"]Thanks for the link, its working now. However, it doesnâ€™t answer my question,

What do the Spanish authorities require to see to verify our durable relationship?

Also where the directive states, â€œthe partner with whom the Union citizen has a durable relationship, duly attested.â€

Post by **Obie** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:46 am

Also see:

ROYAL DECREE 240/2007 of 16 February on entry, free movement and residence in Spain of nationals of the States Member of the European Union and other States party to the Agreement on the European Economic Area wrote:
Article 2. Application to family members of the citizens of a Member State of the Union or of another State Party to the Agreement on Space
Economic Area. This Royal Decree also applies, any
regardless of nationality, and as provided by this, the relatives of a citizen of another Member State of the European Union or another State party to the Agreement on the European Economic Area, where he/she accompany or join them, which is then related:
a) A spouse, provided that there is borne the agreement or declaration of marriages-link

b) the partner with whom you have a union analogical to marriage registered in a public register established down to that effect in a Member State of the Union or in a State party to the EEA, which avoids the possibility of two records, simultaneous in that State, and which has not been cancel such registration, should be enough.

c) their direct descendants, and those of his/her
registered partner that has not always borne the
agreement or declaration of nullity of marriages-link
divorce or legal separation, or termination of
registration of partners, under twenty years,
- older than that age that they are dependent,

d) their direct ancestors and your spouse
or registered partner that are dependent.

This is the translated version of the Spanish directive. It doesn't seem to make provision for unmarried, unregistered partners, who are cohabiting or in a de facto marriage like relationship.

phil_uk · Post by **phil_uk** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:53 am

[quote="Wanderer"][quote="phil_uk"]Thanks for the link, its working now. However, it doesnâ€™t answer my question,

What do the Spanish authorities require to see to verify our durable relationship?

Also where the directive states, â€œthe partner with whom the Union citizen has a durable relationship, duly attested.â€

Post by **Obie** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:00 pm

Hi Op,

Please read the transposed version of Directive 2004/38 into Spanish Law.

That is if you understand Spanish of course.

Article 3(2) family members don't have absolute rights, and member states are oblige to process their entry and residence in accordance with their national law.

I understand what you are saying, but some member state don't accept cohabiting couple, even those countries that accepts it, request evidence of a two years relationship, before your visa could be processed.

You could try the Dutch or Swedish embassy and see if they will issue a visa in these circumstance.

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:09 pm

[quote="phil_uk"][quote="Wanderer"][quote="phil_uk"]Thanks for the link, its working now. However, it doesnâ€™t answer my question,

What do the Spanish authorities require to see to verify our durable relationship?

Also where the directive states, â€œthe partner with whom the Union citizen has a durable relationship, duly attested.â€

phil_uk · Post by **phil_uk** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:09 pm

Thanks for the info. However on this post below, everyone seems to think the couple, who are in the same boat as us, are in fact eligible.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... ship+spain

Post by **Obie** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:19 pm

OP i could write what the respondent in the other forum wrote, which is perfectly right. However not all member states go by the book, they omit and insert rules, which are not on the original directive. I have gone through the extra length of getting information on how the Spanish carry out their procedure.

You can fight it, by calling solvit and arguing with the Spanish consulate in Bangkok, however as things stand, that is what they are saying.

You and the guy in the other thread are perfectly right and the Spanish are absolutely wrong, if that is any consolation.

phil_uk · Post by **phil_uk** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 1:04 pm

The Spanish MOFA say they will accept partners who are in a stable relationship with their European Union partners and have a valid certified registered partnership in an officially recognised registry for partnerships, but The Registry for Partnerships is only applicable to same sex couples.

So if they accept same sex cpls why the h_ll not opposite sex cpls!

Iâ€™ve read on many forums that the Spanish embassy in BKK are awkward SOB

Anyway Iâ€™ve emailed them asking what they require to see.

I forgot to ask, if the Spanish do refuse, could we apply through say France, go there, then travel on to Spain on the strength of the permit issued for France?

charles4u · Post by **charles4u** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 2:13 pm

phil_uk wrote:
I forgot to ask, if the Spanish do refuse, could we apply through say France, go there, then travel on to Spain on the strength of the permit issued for France?

Yes, I believe you can try France or even Germany also...even Hungary. I guess they all issue Schengen visas and you can use it to travel all around the Schengen areas which includes the Spain you intend to visit.

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 2:16 pm

charles4u wrote:
phil_uk wrote:
I forgot to ask, if the Spanish do refuse, could we apply through say France, go there, then travel on to Spain on the strength of the permit issued for France?
Yes, I believe you can try France or even Germany also...even Hungary. I guess they all issue Schengen visas and you can use it to travel all around the Schengen areas which includes the Spain you intend to visit.

Not Germany as I've explained. Plus the OP's intention is to settle not travel.

Post by **Obie** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 2:24 pm

I suspect Germany will accept a Schengen visa issued by another Member state.

We have been told by the OP, that he intends to settle in Spain with his partner. I am yet to be convinced whether or not he will be able to convince the Spanish authority to process his partner's residency once she is in Spain.

I have to say, he will be on the right side of the law, and i don't suspect the authority will deport her. However he will need to compile lots of documents and evidence to show that they have been in a relation on par with that of a married couple.

phil_uk · Post by **phil_uk** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 2:32 pm

Obie wrote:I suspect Germany will accept a Schengen visa issued by another Member state.

We have been told by the OP, that he intends to settle in Spain with his partner. I am yet to be convinced whether or not he will be able to convince the Spanish authority to process his partner's residency once she is in Spain.

I have to say, he will be on the right side of the law, and i don't suspect the authority will deport her. However he will need to compile lots of documents and evidence to show that they have been in a relation on par with that of a married couple.

Hi Obie, you said

I am yet to be convinced whether or not he will be able to convince the Spanish authority to process his partner's residency once she is in Spain

Surely if the Spanish embassy in BKK provide whatever she needs, family permit or whatever its called?? then upon entering Spain there shouldn't be any problem?

I have to say, he will be on the right side of the law, and i don't suspect the authority will deport her.

if we have problems with BKK, could she travel with me on a tourist visa, then apply for residency once we get into Spain?

We have sufficient evidence of our er durable relationship

Post by **Obie** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 2:51 pm

I can say with almost certainty, that if the Spanish consulate in Bangkok, facilitate her entry, bearing in mind your relationship status, they will facilitate her residency in Spain as well.

If you obtain a visa from a Schengen country like Sweden, which accepts application from cohabiting couples, you could use that visa to enter Spain, and fight for her residency to be processed.

Can i ask, if you don't mind, how long your relationship has been subsisting and whether you have any children? also have you any prove that you have been living in the same household- like mortgage commitment, bills in both of your names etc.

phil_uk · Post by **phil_uk** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 3:03 pm

Obie wrote:I can say with almost certainty, that if the Spanish consulate in Bangkok, facilitate her entry, bearing in mind your relationship status, they will facilitate her residency in Spain as well.

If you obtain a visa from a Schengen country like Sweden, which accepts application from cohabiting couples, you could use that visa to enter Spain, and fight for her residency to be processed.

Can i ask, if you don't mind, how long your relationship has been subsisting and whether you have any children? also have you any prove that you have been living in the same household- like mortgage commitment, bills in both of your names etc.

We have known each other over 5 years and have lived together 4.5

Proving our relationship is the easy bit. We had an idea to move to Spain almost three years ago but the Spanish embassy in BKK said there laws only accept married cpls but it would be changing soon. So they know of our relationship for 3 years now. Also I obtained a affirmation from the British embassy in BKK to show them. This was basically my declaration witnessed by the guy in the embassy.

We have had a house together here since 1st Feb 2007 She's had 3 visitors visa for the UK to date.

Today I used the EUROPE DIRECT Contact Centre Web-Assistance and have to say they knew F*** All

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 3:16 pm

phil_uk wrote:
Obie wrote:I can say with almost certainty, that if the Spanish consulate in Bangkok, facilitate her entry, bearing in mind your relationship status, they will facilitate her residency in Spain as well.

If you obtain a visa from a Schengen country like Sweden, which accepts application from cohabiting couples, you could use that visa to enter Spain, and fight for her residency to be processed.

Can i ask, if you don't mind, how long your relationship has been subsisting and whether you have any children? also have you any prove that you have been living in the same household- like mortgage commitment, bills in both of your names etc.
We have known each other over 5 years and have lived together 4.5

Proving our relationship is the easy bit. We had an idea to move to Spain almost three years ago but the Spanish embassy in BKK said there laws only accept married cpls but it would be changing soon. So they know of our relationship for 3 years now. Also I obtained a affirmation from the British embassy in BKK to show them. This was basically my declaration witnessed by the guy in the embassy.

We have had a house together here since 1st Feb 2007 She's had 3 visitors visa for the UK to date.

Today I used the EUROPE DIRECT Contact Centre Web-Assistance and have to say they knew F*** All

I'm pretty sure ur gonna need documents of indisputable provenance to prove your cohabitation, like tenancy agreements etc, in both names and/or join names to a common address. I don't think an affirmation is anything like what they'd be looking for, normally de facto relationships like this are heavily scrutinised and nothing taken as read.

phil_uk · Post by **phil_uk** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 3:28 pm

Wanderer wrote:
phil_uk wrote:
Obie wrote:I can say with almost certainty, that if the Spanish consulate in Bangkok, facilitate her entry, bearing in mind your relationship status, they will facilitate her residency in Spain as well.

If you obtain a visa from a Schengen country like Sweden, which accepts application from cohabiting couples, you could use that visa to enter Spain, and fight for her residency to be processed.

Can i ask, if you don't mind, how long your relationship has been subsisting and whether you have any children? also have you any prove that you have been living in the same household- like mortgage commitment, bills in both of your names etc.
We have known each other over 5 years and have lived together 4.5

Proving our relationship is the easy bit. We had an idea to move to Spain almost three years ago but the Spanish embassy in BKK said there laws only accept married cpls but it would be changing soon. So they know of our relationship for 3 years now. Also I obtained a affirmation from the British embassy in BKK to show them. This was basically my declaration witnessed by the guy in the embassy.

We have had a house together here since 1st Feb 2007 She's had 3 visitors visa for the UK to date.

Today I used the EUROPE DIRECT Contact Centre Web-Assistance and have to say they knew F*** All
I'm pretty sure ur gonna need documents of indisputable provenance to prove your cohabitation, like tenancy agreements etc, in both names and/or join names to a common address. I don't think an affirmation is anything like what they'd be looking for, normally de facto relationships like this are heavily scrutinised and nothing taken as read.

Our house ownership papers has both our names on it which conclusively links us together for minimum of 2.5 years.

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 3:47 pm

phil_uk wrote:
Wanderer wrote:
phil_uk wrote:
Obie wrote:I can say with almost certainty, that if the Spanish consulate in Bangkok, facilitate her entry, bearing in mind your relationship status, they will facilitate her residency in Spain as well.

If you obtain a visa from a Schengen country like Sweden, which accepts application from cohabiting couples, you could use that visa to enter Spain, and fight for her residency to be processed.

Can i ask, if you don't mind, how long your relationship has been subsisting and whether you have any children? also have you any prove that you have been living in the same household- like mortgage commitment, bills in both of your names etc.
We have known each other over 5 years and have lived together 4.5

Proving our relationship is the easy bit. We had an idea to move to Spain almost three years ago but the Spanish embassy in BKK said there laws only accept married cpls but it would be changing soon. So they know of our relationship for 3 years now. Also I obtained a affirmation from the British embassy in BKK to show them. This was basically my declaration witnessed by the guy in the embassy.

We have had a house together here since 1st Feb 2007 She's had 3 visitors visa for the UK to date.

Today I used the EUROPE DIRECT Contact Centre Web-Assistance and have to say they knew F*** All
I'm pretty sure ur gonna need documents of indisputable provenance to prove your cohabitation, like tenancy agreements etc, in both names and/or join names to a common address. I don't think an affirmation is anything like what they'd be looking for, normally de facto relationships like this are heavily scrutinised and nothing taken as read.
Our house ownership papers has both our names on it which conclusively links us together for minimum of 2.5 years.

Exactly, it just links you, doesn't prove cohab. Do u have letters/documents with both names at a common address, joint on each? The things they are looking for are bank statements, utility bills, Tax demands etc. The UK criteria for Unmarried partners is (I think!) six docs each spread evenly over the two years so I'd imagine other EU states would be looking for similar.

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Entry to Spain via 2004/38/EC for non EU citizen

Entry to Spain via 2004/38/EC for non EU citizen

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