ESC

Click the "allow" button if you want to receive important news and updates from immigrationboards.com


Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Welcome to immigrationboards.com!

Login Register Do not show

Advice on wording a letter

Immigration to European countries, don't post UK or Ireland related topics!

Moderators: Casa, JAJ, ca.funke, Amber, Zimba, vinny, Obie, EUsmileWEallsmile, batleykhan, geriatrix, John, ChetanOjha, archigabe, push, Administrator

kikijon1
Newbie
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:02 pm

Advice on wording a letter

Post by kikijon1 » Tue Jan 01, 2013 8:00 pm

Hi, I'm British my wife is Indonesian, we have 3 kids all British passport holders, I went to the French Embassy and the guy there was very helpful and said he could let my wife have a schengen visa under directive 2004 .. he suggested that although my kids have Brit passports I should use their Indonesian passports also along with my wife's application, so all 4 apply for a schengen visa, including copy's of their UK passports!! what I am stuck on is should I say I am going there to check into moving permanently and want to look at some business? or a holiday as I am not sure if this counts as me exercising my movement rights, I currently live in Indonesia. I think the guy at the French embassy has an idea of my plans as he asked if we can all speak french, so it will be easier for us to integrate?

EUsmileWEallsmile
Moderator
Posts: 6019
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:22 pm

Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:37 pm

Being able to speak French will be a huge asset for you and yours, but will not affect the application.

The British children are not required to have visas (this is forbidden in fact).

You have three months grace before you need to have exercised treaty rights in another EU country (this being a worker, self-sufficient or student).

Well worth reading
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 123:en:PDF

Jambo
Respected Guru
Posts: 8734
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 10:31 am

Post by Jambo » Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:51 pm

Your intentions are irrelevant. In both cases (one week visit or a permanent move), free movement applies. Just write the truth.

kikijon1
Newbie
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:02 pm

Post by kikijon1 » Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:14 pm

EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:Being able to speak French will be a huge asset for you and yours, but will not affect the application.

The British children are not required to have visas (this is forbidden in fact).

You have three months grace before you need to have exercised treaty rights in another EU country (this being a worker, self-sufficient or student).

Well worth reading
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 123:en:PDF
Thanks, I thought it was strange when he said as the visa is free to put in for the schengen visa for the kids too, he suggested that then it would be a simple case of giving all four the visa, I just agreed as I don't want to complicate things, I guess after all our dealings with UKBA we just have visa application phobia lol. Anyway 2 more weeks and all the forms will be submitted. I will keep everyone posted .. thanks

EUsmileWEallsmile
Moderator
Posts: 6019
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:22 pm

Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:19 pm

kikijon1 wrote:...schengen visa for the kids too..

Article 5.1
No entry visa or equivalent formality may be imposed on Union citizens.

kikijon1
Newbie
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:02 pm

Post by kikijon1 » Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:45 am

Well all documents went in today and they told me to call next Friday, so fingers crossed now.

frei
BANNED
Posts: 319
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 8:10 am
Location: Deutschland

Post by frei » Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:52 pm

Wish you luck, keep us posted

Directive/2004/38/EC
Respected Guru
Posts: 7121
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:09 am
Location: does not matter if you are with your EEA family member

Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:13 pm

Did you apply for the children too? Can you ask him why he suggests the children enter on the Indonesian passport?

I suspect he needed to meet a quote to issue more visas, and the kids are easy to justify approvals.

kikijon1
Newbie
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:02 pm

Post by kikijon1 » Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:35 pm

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Did you apply for the children too? Can you ask him why he suggests the children enter on the Indonesian passport?

I suspect he needed to meet a quote to issue more visas, and the kids are easy to justify approvals.
Yes I put in for the kids as he suggested, I guess I just think it is easier to play along, and when I asked him the reason he said it would then be easier leaving Indonesia using the kids Indonesian passports, as it is what they entered on, and would be more straightforward to issue all 4 of them the visa, I also gave them hotel bookings and flight details, also a schengen visa Insurance taken out with AXA, I know that I did not have to include these but am just playing their game, it was only financial details that I never gave. although I know my wife passes the 3 questions in the directive: 1: Is he a family member, 2: does she have a link to an EU citizen and 3: will she be travelling with or to join the EU citizen, I must admit I still feel nervous regarding the outcome.

Directive/2004/38/EC
Respected Guru
Posts: 7121
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:09 am
Location: does not matter if you are with your EEA family member

Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:25 am

kikijon1 wrote:Yes I put in for the kids as he suggested, I guess I just think it is easier to play along, and when I asked him the reason he said it would then be easier leaving Indonesia using the kids Indonesian passports, as it is what they entered on, and would be more straightforward to issue all 4 of them the visa, I also gave them hotel bookings and flight details, also a schengen visa Insurance taken out with AXA, I know that I did not have to include these but am just playing their game, it was only financial details that I never gave. although I know my wife passes the 3 questions in the directive: 1: Is he a family member, 2: does she have a link to an EU citizen and 3: will she be travelling with or to join the EU citizen, I must admit I still feel nervous regarding the outcome.
Given the exit controls in Indonesia, and the proclivity of immigration staff to want "facilitation money", this was probably a remarkably enlightened move to suggest issuing the Schengen visa to the children. Wow!

The travel information, travel insurance, and hotel reservation is really not needed. I find travel insurance a rip off so never would guy it in any case, but that is another issue.

Remember that even if you did not have a visa at all, but managed to make it to the border of an EU member state, you can still be admitted on production only a marriage certificate (or birth certificate in the case of children). No travel insurance required. No hotel reservation required. No onward travel reservation required.

Jambo
Respected Guru
Posts: 8734
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 10:31 am

Post by Jambo » Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:09 am

Please note that you can use the Indonesian passport on exit the country and the British ones on entry to France. This is a normal practice of dual nationals. The French immigration would not ask for the exit stamps from Indonesia.

Directive/2004/38/EC
Respected Guru
Posts: 7121
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:09 am
Location: does not matter if you are with your EEA family member

Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:15 am

Jambo wrote:Please note that you can use the Indonesian passport on exit the country and the British ones on entry to France. This is a normal practice of dual nationals. The French immigration would not ask for the exit stamps from Indonesia.
Do you have experience with this in Indonesia?

Jambo
Respected Guru
Posts: 8734
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 10:31 am

Post by Jambo » Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:20 am

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Do you have experience with this in Indonesia?
Not with an Indonesian passport :)

What I was saying is that even if the children have a schengen visa in their Indonesian passports which will be used to ease them leaving the country, they don't need to use the Indonesian passports to enter France and can use the British one.

It's a normal practice by dual nationals to "swap" passports on the flight. Leaving a country on one, get on a flight and land with a different passport. It's not only spies who do that ;-)

kikijon1
Newbie
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:02 pm

Post by kikijon1 » Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:48 am

Jambo wrote:
Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Do you have experience with this in Indonesia?
Not with an Indonesian passport :)

What I was saying is that even if the children have a schengen visa in their Indonesian passports which will be used to ease them leaving the country, they don't need to use the Indonesian passports to enter France and can use the British one.

It's a normal practice by dual nationals to "swap" passports on the flight. Leaving a country on one, get on a flight and land with a different passport. It's not only spies who do that ;-)
Exactly, this is what I had done before when bringing my children to the UK, I used their Indonesian passports to exit Indonesia and their UK ones to enter the UK, but this is a little different as when I entered Indonesia it was with the Indonesian passport as their UK one does not have a stamp in it, and before we flew to Singapore then to UK, this time it is dubai and then France. and as we will leave with the Indonesian passport it is easier if it has the schengen visa, naturally when entering France it will be with the kids UK passports.

EUsmileWEallsmile
Moderator
Posts: 6019
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:22 pm

Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:15 am

kikijon1 wrote: Exactly, this is what I had done before when bringing my children to the UK, I used their Indonesian passports to exit Indonesia and their UK ones to enter the UK
I don't see any real difference between then and now. Presumably you did not have UK visas in the children's Indonesian passports when you did that trip.

kikijon1
Newbie
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:02 pm

Post by kikijon1 » Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:35 pm

EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:
kikijon1 wrote: Exactly, this is what I had done before when bringing my children to the UK, I used their Indonesian passports to exit Indonesia and their UK ones to enter the UK
I don't see any real difference between then and now. Presumably you did not have UK visas in the children's Indonesian passports when you did that trip.
You are correct, I had no visa in the UK passports when we left Indonesia, as to exit Indonesia I used their Indonesian passports, and flew to Singapore where I used their UK passports, when coming back to Indonesia I used their Indonesian passports to enter Indonesia, so as there is no entry visa in their UK passports I cant use the UK passports to exit Indonesia and so must use the Indonesian passports, they (the flight carrier) and immigration will check to see if there is a visa in the passport before allowing us to proceed from Indonesia. I hope this clears things up a little more.

EUsmileWEallsmile
Moderator
Posts: 6019
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:22 pm

Post by EUsmileWEallsmile » Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:55 pm

I don't know the peculiarities of Indonesian immigration, but for the carrier, they will should only be interested in whether the passenger is documented correctly for entry to their final destination (and any transit points); and they would be given that they have UK passports.

kikijon1
Newbie
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:02 pm

Post by kikijon1 » Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:25 pm

EUsmileWEallsmile wrote:I don't know the peculiarities of Indonesian immigration, but for the carrier, they will should only be interested in whether the passenger is documented correctly for entry to their final destination (and any transit points); and they would be given that they have UK passports.
Indonesian immigration can be a nightmare, not always but there can be problems, and for each day someone overstays they are charged $US 20.00 per day, if they don't have the funds they cannot leave Indonesia, there are occasions when some immigration officers will go out of their way to look for a problem with the passport or visa's, and will look carefully at every visa ever issued. When booking the flight it is normal here for them to ask for the passport number, so this will need to tie up with the one being produced at immigration, as they seem to ask to see it, not always, it depends on how corrupt the immigration officer is, as any problems can be sorted out by a gift so to speak.

Directive/2004/38/EC
Respected Guru
Posts: 7121
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:09 am
Location: does not matter if you are with your EEA family member

Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:41 pm

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Given the exit controls in Indonesia, and the proclivity of immigration staff to want "facilitation money", this was probably a remarkably enlightened move to suggest issuing the Schengen visa to the children. Wow!

kikijon1
Newbie
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:02 pm

Post by kikijon1 » Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:12 pm

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:
Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Given the exit controls in Indonesia, and the proclivity of immigration staff to want "facilitation money", this was probably a remarkably enlightened move to suggest issuing the Schengen visa to the children. Wow!
I am hoping that as long as all the paperwork is correct then the Indonesian immigration won't give any problems, and should they find one I hope it is inexpensive to fix, but the good thing is that there are no upcoming religious holidays, so less .. gift money .. will be asked for.

Directive/2004/38/EC
Respected Guru
Posts: 7121
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:09 am
Location: does not matter if you are with your EEA family member

Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:19 pm

Interesting. I did not realize it was more common around religious holidays. Good luck. Sounds like you have everything sorted.

kikijon1
Newbie
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:02 pm

Update

Post by kikijon1 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:20 am

Today we went to the French Embassy in Jakarta and picked up my wife's passport, schengen visa included... what a relief ... we ae both so happy, and I want to thank everyone for their advice, I would have given up without some of you guys.

Its a Multi entry 90 day and has the letter C on it .. not sure what it means!

ok so next week we will sort out the flights and will head for Europe, any suggestions for what I should do when I get there? I mean when do we apply family permit/ resident permit or whatever it is we have to do .. will be once again grateful of any advice.

Directive/2004/38/EC
Respected Guru
Posts: 7121
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:09 am
Location: does not matter if you are with your EEA family member

Re: Update

Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Mon Jan 21, 2013 11:35 am

kikijon1 wrote:ok so next week we will sort out the flights and will head for Europe, any suggestions for what I should do when I get there? I mean when do we apply family permit/ resident permit or whatever it is we have to do .. will be once again grateful of any advice.
Most important is to keep warm. It is winter and the days are short and cold. Spring will come soon.

You need to find work or have enough money to be self sufficient, and your wife needs to apply for a Residence Card.

kikijon1
Newbie
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:02 pm

Re: Update

Post by kikijon1 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:04 pm

Most important is to keep warm. It is winter and the days are short and cold. Spring will come soon.

You need to find work or have enough money to be self sufficient, and your wife needs to apply for a Residence Card.[/quote]

Thanks Directive 2004/38/EC Thick jackets, gloves, socks etc will be bought this week, I know how cold it can get. the residence card should we apply as soon as we get there? or leave it a few weeks. I hope others benefit from all of this to. I will keep updating until we get to the UK.

Directive/2004/38/EC
Respected Guru
Posts: 7121
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:09 am
Location: does not matter if you are with your EEA family member

Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:12 pm

http://www.decathlon.com/ is a low cost place to buy winter clothing when you arrive in France, if you are close to one. Simple but cheap.

I would try to make France work for you. Maybe you can settle there and really enjoy it. Or maybe not. But give it a go.

You will need to work in France in order to use EU free movement law to enter the UK. See http://eumovement.wordpress.com/2011/12 ... -a-worker/

If your wife wants to work, then it is important to get a Residence Card early in case she needs it to prove her right to work.

You can apply for the RC immediately if you have enough cash in the bank to be considered self sufficient. Or you can apply once you get a job.

Locked
cron