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can anyone please explain it

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MAGDA-PL
Junior Member
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:43 pm
Mood:
Poland

Re: can anyone please explain it

Post by MAGDA-PL » Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:27 am

NomadicAviator wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:02 pm
MAGDA-PL wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 11:06 am
NomadicAviator wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:26 pm
MAGDA-PL wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 6:53 pm
Furthermore, after careful investigation, it appears that the foreign national tries to abuse the right to free movement. it has been found that it exhibits artificial behavior whose sole purpose is to secure the right of free movement and residence guaranteed by Community law and that, although it formally complies with the conditions laid down in Community rules, subject to the considerations envisaged above, it is contrary to the purpose of the regulations. after all, it turned out that the foreign national has previously submitted a visa application to the Polish authorities, namely on 13 April. this request has been rejected by Poland. the foreign national then submits the present application to the Dutch representation on 28 March 2018, against which he lodged an objection on 26 April. Now that a previous visa application has been refused by poles, there is serious doubt as to whether the foreign national or the Netherlands is the main purpose of the trip and the stay. This is all the more obvious now that the foreign national has not stated on his own that a previous visa application to the country, of which his wife owns the nationality, has been rejected.

does this mean they consider our marriage bad quality or what?
am I still able to apply for my husband as I am settled down in the Netherlands now?

before we applied for the visa when I was in Pakistan with him to Netherland and we mention we wanted to go there for work
This simply means although there is a right to free movement... before one tries to exercise that right, the person must demonstrate that he can get a normal Visa on his own. If not, then they suspect the person is trying to abuse the right to free movement.

im form poland and in poland there is no such thing known as spouse visa we have anti immigration policy , when we apply for short stay visa they know that we going to settle down ,

what if i am settled in nederland now ? still i cant call my husband ? directive doesnt have such thing written in it that husband should first get visa from wife country.
what if i am settled in nederland now ? - This will definitely make your case stronger provided that you can prove you got sufficient funds or a decent job to support your husband. Although this is not required for stays up to 90 days but given your situation, you must demonstrate that you are truly settled in Netherlands and not abusing the free movement law.

directive doesnt have such thing written in it that husband should first get visa from wife country. - Yes, the directive does not say that... but the directive also says there should not be any kind of abuse or fraud... this is a loophole in the law which the embassy can use if they want to...

May I ask, how many times you applied for Visa after marriage?
after marriage we applied for poland visa national visa they refused then schnegne visa refusd from poland again , tragedy is there is no spouse visa for poland

then we applied for netherland from paksitan and i wanted to go and work there and want to take my husband there they refused we appeal got this letter from IND

nor has it been shown which work should seek to find a reference in which sector and/or upbringing level, nor where it wants to find a job in the Netherlands, nor the way in which it wishes to deal with it.

nor shown which work sponsor will do which sector, where to find job its not sure sponsor will travel Netherland except ticket reservation

nor has it been demonstrated that the sponsor will actually travel to the Netherlands and will reside here. except for the flight tickets from karachi to Amsterdam for the foreign national and sponsor no other transport or accommodation plan has been provided. Furthermore, research has shown that the sponsor does not yet have a residence permit for the Netherlands, or has already started a procedure to obtain a residence permit for the Netherlands.

sponsor doesn't have the residence permit or have already started the procedure to obtain it.

without waiting for a decision from Netherlands applicant applied for German and visa was refused for shopping behavior applicant trying to enter into member states by using other ways

Furthermore, after careful investigation, it appears that the foreign national tries to abuse the right to free movement. it has been found that it exhibits artificial behavior whose sole purpose is to secure the right of free movement and residence guaranteed by Community law and that, although it formally complies with the conditions laid down in Community rules, subject to the considerations envisaged above, it is contrary to the purpose of the regulations. after all, it turned out that the foreign national has previously submitted a visa application to the Polish authorities, namely on 13 April. this request has been rejected by Poland. the foreign national then submits the present application to the Dutch representation on 28 March 2018, against which he lodged an objection on 26 April. Now that a previous visa application has been refused by poles, there is serious doubt as to whether the foreign national or the Netherlands is the main purpose of the trip and the stay. This is all the more obvious now that the foreign national has not stated on his own that a previous visa application to the country, of which his wife owns the nationality, has been rejected.

not proved circumstances of stay not proved polish wife will live in Netherlands not sure they will travel together and not proved polish wife will reside in Netherlands no document submitted regarding accommodation or residential address such as a hotel. lease for home.

above serious detracts credibility and reliability of the information provided by alien and the sponsor and thus correctness of contexts


then after it we applllied for germany for tourist visa again we got refusal

now i am settled in netherland and working here

MAGDA-PL
Junior Member
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:43 pm
Mood:
Poland

Re: can anyone please explain it

Post by MAGDA-PL » Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:40 am

NomadicAviator wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 10:28 am
NomadicAviator wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:26 pm
MAGDA-PL wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 6:53 pm
Furthermore, after careful investigation, it appears that the foreign national tries to abuse the right to free movement. it has been found that it exhibits artificial behavior whose sole purpose is to secure the right of free movement and residence guaranteed by Community law and that, although it formally complies with the conditions laid down in Community rules, subject to the considerations envisaged above, it is contrary to the purpose of the regulations. after all, it turned out that the foreign national has previously submitted a visa application to the Polish authorities, namely on 13 April. this request has been rejected by Poland. the foreign national then submits the present application to the Dutch representation on 28 March 2018, against which he lodged an objection on 26 April. Now that a previous visa application has been refused by poles, there is serious doubt as to whether the foreign national or the Netherlands is the main purpose of the trip and the stay. This is all the more obvious now that the foreign national has not stated on his own that a previous visa application to the country, of which his wife owns the nationality, has been rejected.

does this mean they consider our marriage bad quality or what?
am I still able to apply for my husband as I am settled down in the Netherlands now?

before we applied for the visa when I was in Pakistan with him to Netherland and we mention we wanted to go there for work
This simply means although there is a right to free movement... before one tries to exercise that right, the person must demonstrate that he can get a normal Visa on his own. If not, then they suspect the person is trying to abuse the right to free movement.

Visa for family members applied under Free Movement can be refused for 3 reasons:
1. If the applicant failed to demonstrate that he is covered by the Directive.
2. If the national authorities demonstrate that the visa applicant is a genuine, present and sufficiently serious threat to public policy, public security or public health.
3. If the national authorities demonstrate that there was abuse or fraud.

It seems they have refused your husband's application under point no 3.

i am just bit confused about this 3rd point our mariiage is real we have been married sicne 2016 and i travelled paksitan 3 times till now do you think after being settled here this objection will be valid ???

abuse and fraud are both different things , they said they suspected fraud they believe we want visa so we can get into poland thank god they didnt said anything fraud like marriage of convencice

NomadicAviator
Newly Registered
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:34 am
India

Re: can anyone please explain it

Post by NomadicAviator » Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:14 pm

MAGDA-PL wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:40 am
NomadicAviator wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 10:28 am
NomadicAviator wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:26 pm
MAGDA-PL wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 6:53 pm
Furthermore, after careful investigation, it appears that the foreign national tries to abuse the right to free movement. it has been found that it exhibits artificial behavior whose sole purpose is to secure the right of free movement and residence guaranteed by Community law and that, although it formally complies with the conditions laid down in Community rules, subject to the considerations envisaged above, it is contrary to the purpose of the regulations. after all, it turned out that the foreign national has previously submitted a visa application to the Polish authorities, namely on 13 April. this request has been rejected by Poland. the foreign national then submits the present application to the Dutch representation on 28 March 2018, against which he lodged an objection on 26 April. Now that a previous visa application has been refused by poles, there is serious doubt as to whether the foreign national or the Netherlands is the main purpose of the trip and the stay. This is all the more obvious now that the foreign national has not stated on his own that a previous visa application to the country, of which his wife owns the nationality, has been rejected.

does this mean they consider our marriage bad quality or what?
am I still able to apply for my husband as I am settled down in the Netherlands now?

before we applied for the visa when I was in Pakistan with him to Netherland and we mention we wanted to go there for work
This simply means although there is a right to free movement... before one tries to exercise that right, the person must demonstrate that he can get a normal Visa on his own. If not, then they suspect the person is trying to abuse the right to free movement.

Visa for family members applied under Free Movement can be refused for 3 reasons:
1. If the applicant failed to demonstrate that he is covered by the Directive.
2. If the national authorities demonstrate that the visa applicant is a genuine, present and sufficiently serious threat to public policy, public security or public health.
3. If the national authorities demonstrate that there was abuse or fraud.

It seems they have refused your husband's application under point no 3.

i am just bit confused about this 3rd point our mariiage is real we have been married sicne 2016 and i travelled paksitan 3 times till now do you think after being settled here this objection will be valid ???

abuse and fraud are both different things , they said they suspected fraud they believe we want visa so we can get into poland thank god they didnt said anything fraud like marriage of convencice
From the rejection letter you posted, I don't think they are doubting your marraige. They didn't mention "Marriage of convenience" anywhere. However, they think you guys are trying to use a backdoor entry to Poland which is seen as an abuse to the free movement law.

The mistake you guys made is, you applied to Netherlands under the directive showing "Job Seeking" as the purpose.... while embassies like to see "verifiable" information, you have provided them none. The situation went further against you because a TCN is involved who has been denied Polish visa multiple times and you applied for Germany as well while waiting reply from the IND. Please keep in mind that they can see everything in the VIS what's going on.

Now that you are settled in the Netherlands and working, your circumstances have changed and your husband can file a new application with the dutch embassy.

gokulatti
Member of Standing
Posts: 254
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:34 am
Location: Netherlands/Norway
Norway

Re: can anyone please explain it

Post by gokulatti » Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:31 pm

Hello Magda, Sorry for not replying before for your PM, I had been busy in general and also have had some health issues which is all good now. Alright, I have read your post in great interest on the parts that I have missed lately. I believe you are in this difficult situation mostly because of your actions i.e applying under polish domestic law --> Applying under community law in NL --> Appealing the refusal in Nl --> Applying under community law in Germany while appeal is under way in NL.. what were you thinking?!! your sequence of actions in most cases MIGHT give grounds in the eyes of the immigration officer that you are trying to abuse community law to circumvent polish domestic law. Although based on many rulings in the past, if a community law gives positive immigration status to a TCN over the EU citizens' home country, it is OKAY i.e. surinder singh. But what you have done is clearly give them consolidated proof leaning towards abuse WHILE not taken any concrete steps to fully exercise your FOM i.e. work, self employed, self sufficient+insurance. I say 'fully' because FOM via job seeking given your case history might not quite cut it.

You should have stood your ground in NL, if the appeal had been denied by IND, you could have went to the district court in NL and so on.

Anyway, I do see positives in your case, they do not see your case as a MoC but rather trying to abuse the community law. I assume when you say 'settled in NL' that you have a job or means of subsistence for you AND husband without being a burden to the MS along with insurance. This I believe is one of most important cornerstone in your case where you have demonstrated YOU as a EU citizen is actively using your FoM under Art 21 of TFEU.

I suggest you do the following,
1. Get a place and Register yourself in your city hall, get your BSN. (skip if done already)
2. take the bsn registration document along with substantial proof of you exercising your FoM i.e pay slips, contract etc. to IND (requires an appointment) register yourself and get the registration sticker in your passport ( this step is mandatory if you are going to sponsor a TCN under Directive 2004 later)
3. following step 2, your spouse can make a new application as described here https://ind.nl/en/eu-eea/Pages/Family-m ... ality.aspx please follow the steps at the bottom of the page

It is okay that they see your history, we can all see it is not straight forward and so will they. They might not make it easy but atleast you have a solid case in the courts while exercising FoM. As long as your relationship is genuine and you are in fact making use of community law, your spouse shall have a right of residence, barring of course health safety security thing. Does not matter how many times his application was refused or which country refused them. Worse case scenario, you go to appeal and then go to district court. Expect delay and make use of advocates when the situation calls for. I feel like you need a professional help in the future. I wish you all the best.

ali_
Newly Registered
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:27 pm
Poland

Re: can anyone please explain it

Post by ali_ » Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:36 am

Hi magda,
Hoping for the best positive result for you n your husband. I have quite the same going on. Please update about your case, all the best wishes.

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