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Directive 2004/38/EC thread

Immigration to European countries, don't post UK or Ireland related topics!

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shamimmig
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Re: Directive 2004/38/EC thread

Post by shamimmig » Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:55 am

wiz wrote: I suggest you take a good look at the Resident stamp of your sons..... and see what exactly is written..... because
... I say maybe somebody .... can take a close look!

Good luck, whatever you do.... but you will take risks....

Thank you again Wiz, this is the document in question:
http://imgur.com/lksHbxw

I hope this help others!

wiz
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Re: Directive 2004/38/EC thread

Post by wiz » Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:30 am

Prawo wrote:When I read this I fear the UK does not fully comply with EU rules.

Registration certificates for EU citizens as well as residence cards for their dependent family members HAVE TO BE issued as separate documents (thus should NEVER be a mere stamp or sticker in a passport!).
The main reason for this is that there should be no misunderstanding about their validity being not dependent on the validity of the passport.


Maybe a reason for those persons concerned to file a complaint with the European Commission and file a petition to the European Parliament simultaneously?
In due course this might change UK's malpractice.

Does anyone have an argument against this?
The UK fully complies with the Directive and has transposed the EU Directive 2004/38/EU into the UK LAW.

Can you please point out where in the Directive says .... what I have highlighted in bold?

When a member of your family applies for ENTRANCE VISA (under the EU Directive) you are issued an Entrance Visa (sticker) for 6 months...... When then you apply for RESIDENT CARD you still get a sticker for 5 years.....as per the directive. After 5 years you automatically get Permanent residency and it is not compulsory to apply for separate document, as you say!That is very clear at the Directive.

Of course, for convenience ONLY, the UKBA supply you with several other documents ... charging you a fee, where the previous above stickers were adequate and ... FREE of charge.

Take a look at : Bringing your FSU Lady to UK under the EU Directive 2004/38/EU it's Free

BTW your registration has been approved but looks you have a problem with your email....... :?:

wiz
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Re: Directive 2004/38/EC thread

Post by wiz » Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:46 am

shamimmig wrote:
wiz wrote: I suggest you take a good look at the Resident stamp of your sons..... and see what exactly is written..... because
... I say maybe somebody .... can take a close look!

Good luck, whatever you do.... but you will take risks....

Thank you again Wiz, this is the document in question:
http://imgur.com/lksHbxw

I hope this help others!
Same like my wife's ....... but it was YOU who exercised Treaty rights and not your Mother...... so an overzealous officer... may ask difficult questions.... so Mother has to be careful what she says..... because some of these officers speak French too. :wink:

.... we are going to meet the boys father who is in France to meet him.... I am just accompany the boys because they are young.... If they ask.... then his Mobile tel is ...... and the same on the way back.... father is in England... working

Sava, Bien Mersi a buon voyage! ..... :lol:

RedKite2010
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Has anyone on here ever exercised their Treaty Right in Spai

Post by RedKite2010 » Fri Apr 04, 2014 7:03 pm

Hi guys.
Wife and I are travelling to Canary Islands on 19th April 2014 (in 2 weeks)

I am baffled as to what to do when we get to the boarder in Lanzarote.
Do I need to show a Spanish Version of the Directive to the boarder control when we land?
Do we tell them that as a EU Citizen I am exercising my Economic Treaty Right and bringing my wife with me, and she entering as the wife of an EU National? Or does she just enter as a visitor?

Where can I find a Spanish translation of the directive as I think we will need it.

PS... I am UK National, married to Non EU Woman. Currently in the UK. She is here as a visitor at the moment.
We got married 2 weeks ago in her home country. Our marriage certificate has an Apostille Of The Hauge.
She is a non visa national for UK & Spain so does not require a visa.

Prawo
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Re: Directive 2004/38/EC thread

Post by Prawo » Fri Apr 04, 2014 7:43 pm

Unfortunately your wife will have to apply for a visa at the Spanish Embassy/Consulate in London.

However: the visa is free and she shouldn't show more than the marriage certificate (and you passport). It will help if the marriage is registered in the UK one way or another, though this is not obligatory.

Without a visa it will even be doubtful she can board the plane on departure.

Should she succeed in boarding without the visa (check by airline staff, not UK border guard), showing the directive could be helpful to enter Spain and receive a free 15 day visa upon arrival. Though a not to intelligent immigration control upon arrival could cause you spend some unpleasant hours of waiting or even try to have her take the plane back. Which you of course can resist on basis of the directive.
Would you like to start your holidays like this?

RedKite2010
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Re: Directive 2004/38/EC thread

Post by RedKite2010 » Fri Apr 04, 2014 8:32 pm

Shocked by your reply Prawo.

My wife is a non visa national, why would she need a visa?

Prawo
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Re: Directive 2004/38/EC thread

Post by Prawo » Fri Apr 04, 2014 8:43 pm

Sorry, did not read your last line.

But why all the fuss?
She can travel on her own without a visa.
Her marriage with you does not add anything substantial (with regard to her visa free travel possibilities).

RedKite2010
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Re: Directive 2004/38/EC thread

Post by RedKite2010 » Fri Apr 04, 2014 9:06 pm

well we are going to Spain to live... more accurately I am going there for work, and she is accompanying me.

When she gets to the boarder does she say she is here as a visitor? Or that she is travelling with her husband who is here for work and exercising treaty right by bring his spouse with him.? Or that she is here for work?

I would like her to be able to work as well as sitting around idol for 3-4 months is not her style!

I just dont know what to do when we get to the Spanish border... i have got most of the other stuff figured out.

Prawo
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Re: Directive 2004/38/EC thread

Post by Prawo » Sat Apr 05, 2014 3:17 am

First of all you have a free period of stay of three months. So has your wife.
So at the border there is nothing to tell or arrange.

Your right to stay for more than 3 months (and thus her right) is based on you working there.

When you have already your contract you can just register in your new home and apply for the proper documents. For you the "registration certificate" (certificado de registro) and for your wife the "residence card of a family member of an EU citizen" (familiar ciudadano de la Union). Once ther simply find out the porper office.
Here is som info in Spanish for you http://www.parainmigrantes.info/certifi ... de-la-u-e/
and for your wife (with application form) http://extranjeros.empleo.gob.es/es/Inf ... s/hoja103/

Your wife can also work if she likes to do so.

To find out the proper office, try to read this
Lugar de presentación:
Oficina de Extranjería de la provincia donde pretenda residir o en la Comisaría de Policía correspondiente.
Para obtener información de la dirección, teléfonos y horarios de atención al público de la Oficina de Extranjería se podrá consultar la página: http://www.seap.minhap.gob.es/servicios ... _ddgg.html
and you wil find the relevant addresses for the Canary Islands.

keepsim
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Re: Directive 2004/38/EC thread

Post by keepsim » Sat May 03, 2014 6:21 am

Related to above topic you mentioned uk national passport and marriage certificate will be enough to apply for eu national spouse visa.

1. Is there any need to provide confirmed travel tickets as well ? As asked by spanish embassy.

2. Also how many days it takes to get this visa.

Thanks

chaoclive
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Re: Directive 2004/38/EC thread

Post by chaoclive » Sat May 03, 2014 8:39 am

The Embassy of the Netherlands in Beijing asked us to show our tickets, which we did. The visa was issued and the passport returned to my partner within 3 days.

The Spanish Embassy in Beijing didn't ask to see tickets. The visa was issued in 20 minutes (after a 25 minute discussion with the Visa Section Head).

We were very lucky.

Prawo
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Re: Directive 2004/38/EC thread

Post by Prawo » Sat May 03, 2014 9:12 am

chaoclive wrote:The Embassy of the Netherlands in Beijing asked us to show our tickets, which we did. The visa was issued and the passport returned to my partner within 3 days.
You didn't have to discuss anything with them?
The Spanish Embassy in Beijing didn't ask to see tickets. The visa was issued in 20 minutes (after a 25 minute discussion with the Visa Section Head).

We were very lucky.
Lucky?
Since when you call it luck when you get what you are entitled to?
Satisfied with the 20 minutes? Know they have to issue such a visa a.s.a.p and facilitate it.

I presume you were issued the Spanish Schengen visa for a different trip.

Next time try to apply for a 90 day multiple entry visa with validity of 2-5 years.

chaoclive
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Re: Directive 2004/38/EC thread

Post by chaoclive » Sat May 03, 2014 11:07 am

Prawo wrote:
chaoclive wrote:The Embassy of the Netherlands in Beijing asked us to show our tickets, which we did. The visa was issued and the passport returned to my partner within 3 days.
You didn't have to discuss anything with them?
The Spanish Embassy in Beijing didn't ask to see tickets. The visa was issued in 20 minutes (after a 25 minute discussion with the Visa Section Head).

We were very lucky.
Lucky?
Since when you call it luck when you get what you are entitled to?
Satisfied with the 20 minutes? Know they have to issue such a visa a.s.a.p and facilitate it.

I presume you were issued the Spanish Schengen visa for a different trip.

Next time try to apply for a 90 day multiple entry visa with validity of 2-5 years.
It was lucky that it took 20 minutes/a few days. I am very well informed about my rights and would not call it lucky to get something to which my partner is entitled to. However, they do not have to issue it on the spot. I would like to see how the UK deal with someone who asked them to issue it on the spot.

I didn't discuss ANYTHING with the Dutch. They were super. I told them “I'm Irish and I'm going to the Netherlands for a holiday. He's my civil partner." They asked if I brought the stuff and took his address for postage. Total of about 15 minutes (including queueing time).

The discussion with the Spanish was about a legalization of our civil partnership certificate, which I firmly said would not be happening.

Wfreij
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Re: Directive 2004/38/EC thread

Post by Wfreij » Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:22 pm

Hello,

I have read extensively on the topic but i would like to make sure i am covered under the Directive 2004/38/ec

I am a Lebanese, residing in Lebanon. I wish to travel to the Schengen area for 25 days with Italy as the country of entry, i will go for touristic purposes from the 8th of August till the 1st of september with a group of friends.

There is a data collecting agency which collects all the applications for the italian embassy visas called TLS Contact. For the sake of clarity, I am a 24 year old male, unemployed but recently accepted at the American University of Beirut. My father recently got the bulgarian citizenship, therefore I applied to the citizenship too at the Bulgarian Embassy in Beirut. Also, I am still dependent on my father for expences.

I applied to the Schengen visa at TLSContact on july 8th 2014, and the application was received by the italian embassy on July 9th 2014. Included in the application was all the necessary paperwork such as birth certificate, family statement, airline tickets, hotel bookings, insurance, my fathers bulgarian passport copy, a letter from the ministry of justice in bulgaria to the embassy in beirut stating that my citizenship application has been received.

The problem is that to this moment, i have not received an answer, or had any contact with the embassy; and TLSContact do not know any details about my application. Also, my girlfriend who has applied on the same date as I did, got her visa accepted on monday the 21st of august.

The problem is, i am traveling on the 8th of August, and i still need to book train tickets and make necessary plans, which i can only do after my visa is accepted.

As per EU Directive 2004/38/EC, part 2.2.1: “Member States shall grant [family members covered by the Directive] every facility to obtain the necessary visas. Such visas must be issued free of charge as soon as possible and on the basis of an accelerated procedure.” (page 86)

This has not been implemented so far. But my primary concern is i get my visa accepted. So my inquiry is, am I covered by this directive? Thank you

Wajih Freij

Donutz
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Re: Directive 2004/38/EC thread

Post by Donutz » Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:18 am

Wfreij wrote:Hello,

I have read extensively on the topic but i would like to make sure i am covered under the Directive 2004/38/ec

I am a Lebanese, residing in Lebanon. I wish to travel to the Schengen area for 25 days with Italy as the country of entry, i will go for touristic purposes from the 8th of August till the 1st of september with a group of friends.

There is a data collecting agency which collects all the applications for the italian embassy visas called TLS Contact. For the sake of clarity, I am a 24 year old male, unemployed but recently accepted at the American University of Beirut. My father recently got the bulgarian citizenship, therefore I applied to the citizenship too at the Bulgarian Embassy in Beirut. Also, I am still dependent on my father for expences.
Hey Freij,

AFAIK you are not covered even thuogh yuo are direct family of an E citizen (your father), since you are no longer a minor:
directive 2004/38 wrote:Children (or grandchildren!) under 21 or those who are older than 21 but still dependent (e.g. students supported by their parents). The child can be of the EU citizen or of the non-EU citizen. This would include a child from a previous relationship or from before the EU-citizen obtained their citizenship.
Unless you cuold be classified as a dependant and travel together with your dad.

Note that external parties such as TLS are entirely optional for all applicants as per article 17.5 of the Schengen visa rules (regulation 810/2009/EC) and yuo are entitled to deal directly with the embassy if yuo desire plus the embassies should communicate this clearly and make it a genuine choice.

Wfreij
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Re: Directive 2004/38/EC thread

Post by Wfreij » Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:52 am

Hey Donutz,

Thanks for your reply,
Unless you cuold be classified as a dependant and travel together with your dad.


Well i am dependent on my dad, he pays my university tuition and my monthly allowance and he is also paying for this trip. However, since he is in Bulgaria, i could only obtain my mother's(divorced from father) bank statement for the application. How would I be able to show that my dad supports me without showing a clear money trail?:S

Also, this is an excerpt from the Italian embassies website
To apply for a visa, you shall contact “TLScontact” from Monday to Friday between 8.30 a.m. and 4.30 p.m. (Tel: 00961 1 669 888) or log on to the website http://www.tlscontact.com/lb2it, in order to set an appointment through the company itself (with an additional fee amounting to 56.000 L.P.) or, upon request, directly at the counter of the Embassy, but in such case, delays will be longer.
Well they did give a choice, but it sure isn't a genuine one.

Would you have any idea why the delay so taking so long? Its been 22 calendar days, 14 working days.

Thank you for your help,

Donutz
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Re: Directive 2004/38/EC thread

Post by Donutz » Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:10 am

Hey Wfreij, I'm not sure how one goes about proving that you are a dependent of your EU familymember (dad).
Perhaps there is something in the Schengen visa handbook, which has an entire chapter in EU/EEA applications made under directive 2003/38. You can find the handbook here:

http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/wh ... dex_en.htm

As for direct applications, an other handbook (which explains the rules layed out by the visa code 810/2009)says:
4.4. Direct access
Maintaining the possibility for visa applicants to lodge their applications directly at the consulate instead of via an external service provider implies that there should be a genuine choice between these two possibilities.

Even if direct access does not have to be organised under identical or similar conditions to those for access to the service provider, the conditions should not make direct access impossible in practice. Even if it is acceptable to have a different waiting time for obtaining an appointment in the case of direct access, the waiting time should not be so long that it would render direct access impossible in practice.

The different options available for lodging a visa application should be presented plainly to the public, including clear information both on the choice and the cost of the additional services of the external service provider (see Part I, point 4.1).
This handbook can also be found on the before mentioned page. There you can also find contact info if you wish to sent feedback to the EU Commission (Home Affairs department) about embassies who seem to give people a hard time.

Also, your applications should have been dealt with ASAP, and at the longest 15 calendar days!! You may wish to contact the embassy and politely ask what the *** is going on (incompetence, not wishing to help you, mistakes by them, ... ?).

Wfreij
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Re: Directive 2004/38/EC thread

Post by Wfreij » Thu Jul 31, 2014 11:36 am

Hello Dontuz,
Also, your applications should have been dealt with ASAP, and at the longest 15 calendar days!! You may wish to contact the embassy and politely ask what the *** is going on (incompetence, not wishing to help you, mistakes by them, ... ?).
Well I have this instinctual fear towards asking asking them whats going on. But i guess I have to, because this is becoming unbearable! My hotel reservations expire by saturday if i dont pay, and nothing is certain so far.

Well the way i think of it is, why not reject the visa if they are not convinced. So, something else must be going on with it.

johnbeton
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Re: Directive 2004/38/EC thread

Post by johnbeton » Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:33 pm

Hello everyone

I'm new here and I just want to make sure my wife and I are going to be fine for our trip to Europe in two months.

I'm Belgian and my Brazilian wife and I are living in Brazil at the moment. We are travelling from Brazil to Belgium via Madrid.

My questions: Are we covered by the directive 2004/38? And if so, we can still be asked to produce our wedding certificate if I'm not mistaken. Since this would happen in Madrid do we need to translate it to Spanish, and does that have to be a legal translation?

Thank you very much!

samancia
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Re: Directive 2004/38/EC thread

Post by samancia » Sat Sep 05, 2015 9:07 pm

johnbeton wrote:Hello everyone

I'm new here and I just want to make sure my wife and I are going to be fine for our trip to Europe in two months.

I'm Belgian and my Brazilian wife and I are living in Brazil at the moment. We are travelling from Brazil to Belgium via Madrid.

My questions: Are we covered by the directive 2004/38? And if so, we can still be asked to produce our wedding certificate if I'm not mistaken. Since this would happen in Madrid do we need to translate it to Spanish, and does that have to be a legal translation?

Thank you very much!

Does your wife have a F card?
I am not expert on this topic, however having read some of the posts here, in my opinion it is important to have F card for your wife before she visits another EU country

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