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Dutch - EEA Family permit member Refused

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giruzz
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Dutch - EEA Family permit member Refused

Post by giruzz » Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:19 pm

My GF just left the Dutch Embassy in London a few minutes ago.

Her dutch visa has been refused because her residency card is not endorsed on a passport but it is issued on a A4 paper.

They gave her a letter and told to ask the home office to obtain a new label on the passport.

We went to the Dutch because we are not married and they recognised the un-married partnership while French and Italians don't (we are going to do a few days in Amsterdam, Paris and Milan) (which means free visa if we apply with the Dutch).

Is this something legal they can do? We call the Home Office and they said that a request to endorse the Family permit member requires a new application and a 6months wait...

g.

Directive/2004/38/EC
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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:16 pm

Contact Solvit right away for their assistance. http://eumovement.wordpress.com/help-eu-solvit/

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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:55 pm

You might want to send Prawo an message. He is a Dutch lawyer who seems to specialize in EU law immigration.

giruzz
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Post by giruzz » Thu May 01, 2008 11:17 am

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:You might want to send Prawo an message. He is a Dutch lawyer who seems to specialize in EU law immigration.
Thank you!

I'll give it a try.

In the meantime, I spoke with the Ministry of Foreign affairs and after talking with 6 people I've been told to send an email. I've sent the email and I received an acknowledgment without a signature or a name on it.

The request is 'in process' and will take some time to complete...

After that...I've contacted solvit (yesterday) and I'm now waiting for an reply

I'll keep you posted

g.

giruzz
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Post by giruzz » Thu May 29, 2008 3:33 pm

I haven't heard anything back from Solvit.

However, after my complaint I received this email back from the dutch:

Dear Mr XXX

In reference to your e-mail and telephone call I inform you as follows.

Persons who are normally required to hold a visa in order to be able to enter the Netherlands are exempt form this visa requirement when they are a family member of a citizen of the European Union who is exercising his/her right to free movement. In order to qualify for this exemption, the family member of the EU-citizen must hold a residence permit issued by a member state of the European Union (in accordance to EC directive 2004/38, the right to free movement of EU-citizens and their family members).

The above information is based on the following articles and passages of the Vreemdelingenbesluit and Vreemdelingencirculaire:

Vreemdelingenbesluit Article 8.9

Aan een vreemdeling als bedoeld in artikel 8.7, tweede, derde of vierde lid, die niet de nationaliteit bezit van een staat als bedoeld in het eerste lid van dat artikel, en die beschikt over een geldige verblijfskaart, afgegeven door de bevoegde autoriteiten van een staat als bedoeld in artikel 8.7, eerste lid, waaruit het verblijfsrecht als familielid blijkt, wordt de toegang niet geweigerd wegens het ontbreken van een geldig visum. In het paspoort wordt geen aantekening gesteld omtrent inreis in Nederland of uitreis uit Nederland.



Vreemdelingencirculaire A2/4.3.1



Zoals is neergelegd in artikel 8.9 Vb, zijn personen die normaal gesproken visumplichtig zijn vrijgesteld van de visumplicht wanneer zij een familielid zijn als bedoeld in artikel 8.7, tweede, derde en vierde lid, Vb van een onderdaan van de EU, de EER of Zwitserland die zijn recht inzake vrij verkeer uitoefent. Hierbij geldt als voorwaarde dat zij in het bezit moeten zijn van een geldige verblijfskaart afgegeven door één van de EU-/EER-landen of Zwitserland. (Hier wordt gedoeld op het document vermeld in artikel 10 van Richtlijn 2004/38 van 29 april 2004 betreffende het recht van vrij verkeer en verblijf op het grondgebied van de lidstaten voor de burgers van de Unie en hun familieleden.)


I hope to have informed you sufficiently.


Anyone can help?

giruzz

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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Thu May 29, 2008 3:51 pm

Can you be specific about what help you want?

giruzz
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Post by giruzz » Thu May 29, 2008 3:53 pm

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Can you be specific about what help you want?
Having an EEA-Family Member permit card issued in the UK...

is my gf allowed to travel visa-free to the netherlands? (As for Germany or Italy)

g.

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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Fri May 30, 2008 5:11 am

Persons who are normally required to hold a visa in order to be able to enter the Netherlands are exempt form this visa requirement when they are a family member of a citizen of the European Union who is exercising his/her right to free movement. In order to qualify for this exemption, the family member of the EU-citizen must hold a residence permit issued by a member state of the European Union (in accordance to EC directive 2004/38, the right to free movement of EU-citizens and their family members).
Do you satisfy the requirements of this paragraph? Does your gf satisfy the requirements of this paragraph?

Is there some reason you think it might not apply to you?

giruzz
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Post by giruzz » Fri May 30, 2008 10:18 am

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:
Persons who are normally required to hold a visa in order to be able to enter the Netherlands are exempt form this visa requirement when they are a family member of a citizen of the European Union who is exercising his/her right to free movement. In order to qualify for this exemption, the family member of the EU-citizen must hold a residence permit issued by a member state of the European Union (in accordance to EC directive 2004/38, the right to free movement of EU-citizens and their family members).
Do you satisfy the requirements of this paragraph? Does your gf satisfy the requirements of this paragraph?

Is there some reason you think it might not apply to you?
Not sure. Do I need a residency card from the Netherlands or the one from the UK will do?

Thank you

giorgio

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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Fri May 30, 2008 11:00 am

giruzz wrote:
Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:
Persons who are normally required to hold a visa in order to be able to enter the Netherlands are exempt form this visa requirement when they are a family member of a citizen of the European Union who is exercising his/her right to free movement. In order to qualify for this exemption, the family member of the EU-citizen must hold a residence permit issued by a member state of the European Union (in accordance to EC directive 2004/38, the right to free movement of EU-citizens and their family members).
Do you satisfy the requirements of this paragraph? Does your gf satisfy the requirements of this paragraph?

Is there some reason you think it might not apply to you?
Not sure. Do I need a residency card from the Netherlands or the one from the UK will do?
Please reread carefully what they said to you.

giruzz
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Post by giruzz » Fri May 30, 2008 11:09 am

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:
giruzz wrote:
Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:
Persons who are normally required to hold a visa in order to be able to enter the Netherlands are exempt form this visa requirement when they are a family member of a citizen of the European Union who is exercising his/her right to free movement. In order to qualify for this exemption, the family member of the EU-citizen must hold a residence permit issued by a member state of the European Union (in accordance to EC directive 2004/38, the right to free movement of EU-citizens and their family members).
Do you satisfy the requirements of this paragraph? Does your gf satisfy the requirements of this paragraph?

Is there some reason you think it might not apply to you?
Not sure. Do I need a residency card from the Netherlands or the one from the UK will do?
Please reread carefully what they said to you.
This is interesting. The embassy said something like 'get lost'. Their ministry said 'all good'...

I'm just worried on what the Easyjet lady will say when we will try to check-in...

g.

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Post by 86ti » Fri May 30, 2008 11:31 am

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:
giruzz wrote:
Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:
Persons who are normally required to hold a visa in order to be able to enter the Netherlands are exempt form this visa requirement when they are a family member of a citizen of the European Union who is exercising his/her right to free movement. In order to qualify for this exemption, the family member of the EU-citizen must hold a residence permit issued by a member state of the European Union (in accordance to EC directive 2004/38, the right to free movement of EU-citizens and their family members).
Do you satisfy the requirements of this paragraph? Does your gf satisfy the requirements of this paragraph?

Is there some reason you think it might not apply to you?
Not sure. Do I need a residency card from the Netherlands or the one from the UK will do?
Please reread carefully what they said to you.
Sorry Directive/2004/38/EC, but what are you trying to point out here? giruzz said that his girl friend does have a UK residence card though not inside the passport which the Dutch embassy obviously didn't like (and I must admit that I understand them). Do you mean that this form of residence card is not a residence permit?

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Re: Dutch - EEA Family permit member Refused

Post by 86ti » Fri May 30, 2008 11:40 am

giruzz wrote: Her dutch visa has been refused because her residency card is not endorsed on a passport but it is issued on a A4 paper.
Just wondering: did she receive her passport and the residence card together but she got the residence card on a separate paper?

giruzz
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Re: Dutch - EEA Family permit member Refused

Post by giruzz » Fri May 30, 2008 11:40 am

86ti wrote:
giruzz wrote: Her dutch visa has been refused because her residency card is not endorsed on a passport but it is issued on a A4 paper.
Just wondering: did she receive her passport and the residence card together but she got the residence card on a separate paper?
Yes.

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Re: Dutch - EEA Family permit member Refused

Post by 86ti » Fri May 30, 2008 11:53 am

giruzz wrote:
86ti wrote:
giruzz wrote: Her dutch visa has been refused because her residency card is not endorsed on a passport but it is issued on a A4 paper.
Just wondering: did she receive her passport and the residence card together but she got the residence card on a separate paper?
Yes.
Now. I am really shocked! Why wouldn't HO just stick it inside the passport if they had it available at that time.....?

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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Fri May 30, 2008 12:33 pm

The answer is very simple. She has a Residence Card issued by a member state of the EU. If you read the note that the Netherlands Embassy sent, she does not need a visa. Simple.

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Post by 86ti » Fri May 30, 2008 1:14 pm

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:The answer is very simple. She has a Residence Card issued by a member state of the EU. If you read the note that the Netherlands Embassy sent, she does not need a visa. Simple.
Sure but this is obviously the opinion of the dutch ministry of foreign affairs.
Next, he needs to convience the people at check-in to let him through and then there are still the immigration officers (usual ministry of internal affairs) who may not have the instructions to let him pass or simple don't like this strange sticker on the A4 paper either.

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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Fri May 30, 2008 1:20 pm

The border police are going to be well informed. If they have any problems, they can just call the British to confirm it is a valid Residence Card.

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Post by giruzz » Fri May 30, 2008 1:25 pm

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:The border police are going to be well informed. If they have any problems, they can just call the British to confirm it is a valid Residence Card.
Well...The Dutch in London keep saying that is not valid and she needs a Schengen Visa....so I wouldn't be that sure that things will be smooth...

(Then there is the problem that they are not issuing Schengen visas unless the Residency Card is issued on the passport).

giruz

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Post by 86ti » Fri May 30, 2008 1:41 pm

giruzz wrote:
Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:The border police are going to be well informed. If they have any problems, they can just call the British to confirm it is a valid Residence Card.
Well...The Dutch in London keep saying that is not valid and she needs a Schengen Visa....so I wouldn't be that sure that things will be smooth...

(Then there is the problem that they are not issuing Schengen visas unless the Residency Card is issued on the passport).

giruz
I think the embassy can anyway only give you advice and is in no position to force you to obtain a visa. As I said before the real challenge is check-in and border control. I hope that Directive/2004/38/EC is right and border police is better informed.

I, by the way, have a similar problem with the Austrian embassy. But in this case they don't seem to accept UK residence cards at all.

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