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EEA family member require airline ticket for Spanish visa

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pinkpanter
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EEA family member require airline ticket for Spanish visa

Post by pinkpanter » Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:44 pm

Hi Guys,

I just need advice from someone who have faced same experience as what I am facing now.

I have PR (EEA) and me and my wife (EEA national) are traveling to spain within two weeks time. I applied for visa and didn't pay any fee because of an EEA family member. Yesterday, I received a message requesting further documents that they also require my airline ticket details. I already have explained to them that there is no legal requirement for this documents if you are an EEA family member but, they still insist that Spanish consulate want to see my airline ticket. We didn't book any ticket yet as we want to confirm my visa arrangement first before making our traveling arrangement.

My spouse now write a letter and explain the above on it that why we cannot show our ticket and also reference to the EEA family member right as per Directive/2004/34/EU etc. I am going tomorrow to give this letter to them at vfs office.

I would be grateful if anyone with same experience could share their experience and how they dealt with this situation? Many thanks!

Please see also my thread below for more details:

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... sc&start=0
Last edited by pinkpanter on Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:00 pm, edited 5 times in total.

mick5
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Post by mick5 » Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:29 pm

Please let us know what happened in spanish embassy because iam planing to apply spain visa without conform ticket.

Jambo
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Post by Jambo » Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:38 pm

Don't have personal experience but you can argue with them that a ticket is not listed on their website as required for EEA family member applications.

See CONDITIONS OF APPLICATION.

pinkpanter
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Post by pinkpanter » Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:44 pm

Jambo wrote:Don't have personal experience but you can argue with them that a ticket is not listed on their website as required for EEA family member applications.

See CONDITIONS OF APPLICATION.
I have argued almost everything including this. They just refer me to spanish vfs website at the bottom of the page that spanish consulate may request any documents if they may require. I will keep you all in loop!

Directive/2004/38/EC
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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:43 pm

Where possible, try to get what they say in writing. It makes it a lot easier to complain to other agencies later!

pinkpanter
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Post by pinkpanter » Sat Oct 06, 2012 6:09 pm

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Where possible, try to get what they say in writing. It makes it a lot easier to complain to other agencies later!
Thats exactly what my wife stated at the end of the letter that if you still want to reject my husband's application on this ground, then I need in writing with clear ground why you have refused the application so that we could take necessary actions to protect our EEA rights under Directive 2004/3//EC.

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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:25 pm

pinkpanter wrote:
Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Where possible, try to get what they say in writing. It makes it a lot easier to complain to other agencies later!
Thats exactly what my wife stated at the end of the letter that if you still want to reject my husband's application on this ground, then I need in writing with clear ground why you have refused the application so that we could take necessary actions to protect our EEA rights under Directive 2004/3//EC.
You have a good wife!

pinkpanter
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Post by pinkpanter » Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:44 am

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:
pinkpanter wrote:
Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Where possible, try to get what they say in writing. It makes it a lot easier to complain to other agencies later!
Thats exactly what my wife stated at the end of the letter that if you still want to reject my husband's application on this ground, then I need in writing with clear ground why you have refused the application so that we could take necessary actions to protect our EEA rights under Directive 2004/3//EC.
You have a good wife!
Yes she is!!... :)

I received a msg that my application has resubmitted for further processing..
Last edited by pinkpanter on Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

pinkpanter
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Post by pinkpanter » Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:45 am

I don't believe that they would accept this letter as explanation. If they refused and reject my application then I will complain to European Commission. Can I sue to Spanish Consulate if they refuse to give me visa??

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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Mon Oct 08, 2012 11:48 am

pinkpanter wrote:Can I sue to Spanish Consulate if they refuse to give me visa??
Yes and no. Definitely yes through the Spanish court system. But that probably takes a lawyer there. It might be possible to launch a small claims court action against them, but I am not sure of the implications and possible downsides of doing so.

pinkpanter
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Post by pinkpanter » Tue Oct 09, 2012 9:56 am

I just received a phone call from Spanish consulate. After introductions etc The lady start with a very unexpected question that why am I not applying through my spouse embassay as it would be more quick. I replied that I am only going to Spain, not to my spouse's country. She asked me the second question that when you applied last time to your wife's country, what document did you show etc. She told me that because I have UK PR status that was a reason we were asking for tickets; however we are not asking now and will issue you visa quickly as possible as you are travelling soon.

During the call the lady was little confused but, anyway it seems that the letter from my spouse worked and I will receive my visa soon :)

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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:37 pm

pinkpanter wrote:I just received a phone call from Spanish consulate. After introductions etc The lady start with a very unexpected question that why am I not applying through my spouse embassay as it would be more quick. I replied that I am only going to Spain, not to my spouse's country. She asked me the second question that when you applied last time to your wife's country, what document did you show etc. She told me that because I have UK PR status that was a reason we were asking for tickets; however we are not asking now and will issue you visa quickly as possible as you are travelling soon.

During the call the lady was little confused but, anyway it seems that the letter from my spouse worked and I will receive my visa soon :)
Sounds like she is wasting her time by improvising rather than just issuing the visa. Amazing!

I would recommend not going to Spain in the future. They clearly do not need your tourist Euros!

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Post by pinkpanter » Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:00 pm

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:
pinkpanter wrote: I would recommend not going to Spain in the future. They clearly do not need your tourist Euros!
I will definately go again but that time hope without visa. I will be completing 12 months in December after PR so will apply for BN.

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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:20 pm

pinkpanter wrote:I will definately go again but that time hope without visa. I will be completing 12 months in December after PR so will apply for BN.
Will you drive or take the train? Remember to always carry your marriage certificate

pinkpanter
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Post by pinkpanter » Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:43 am

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:
pinkpanter wrote:Will you drive or take the train? Remember to always carry your marriage certificate
The lady said they will issue me visa ( I hope) soon so do not need to carry my marriage certificate. We will book Flight. Do I realy need to carry marriage certificate despite the visa on my passport??
Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:
pinkpanter wrote:I will definately go again but that time hope without visa. I will be completing 12 months in December after PR so will apply for BN.
I dont think after British Naturalisation, you will need visa for Spain. Do I??

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Post by pinkpanter » Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:08 am

Its realy annoying now. Spanish consulate lady (same) just now called me again and said their cosulate authority require my tickets, which is contradict what they have told me yesterday that they will issue me a visa. When I reminded her about our converation of yesterday, she doesnot know anything about it, even she was very rude and does't let me explain my view point and hang off the phone after saying that 'OK so you are saying that you are not providing us tickets, I just need to know this. Thank you and hang off"

I am going to cancel our holidays. Thank you very much Directive/2004/38/EC for your help!!!

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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:42 pm

Tell them that if they do not issue the visa immediately, you will get Solvit involved.

As an aside, Why are you actually applying for the visa? You have a UK issued Residence Card, right?

pinkpanter
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Post by pinkpanter » Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:56 pm

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Tell them that if they do not issue the visa immediately, you will get Solvit involved.

As an aside, Why are you actually applying for the visa? You have a UK issued Residence Card, right?
I have UK issued PR now, and in my PR it doesn't say family member of eea. Also i want to get visa to avoid unnecessary questions at airport.

I have sent my complain today as a start below:
http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/tr ... dex_en.htm

for complain: http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/help/index_en.htm

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Post by pinkpanter » Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:50 am

Yesterday a gentleman from Spanish Consulate called me (again) and advice me that my application is still pending due to airline ticket not provided yet. It looks like a joke now. This is now 3rd consecitive call I received since I submitted letter. I told him that you are calling me everyday and demanding me airline ticket and my answere is always same that I cannot provide you my ticket. I don't understand why you are calling me again and again and demanding the same document. Just take a decision and give me in writting for refusal to avoid more delay. He apologised.

It seems that they don't have any track rocord of calls or previous conversation recording system with the applicant.

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Post by mcovet » Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:33 pm

the problem is that you have the PR sticker which does not say "family member" etc. but I presume your RC is still in the passport? Then you only show this at the border and travel without the visa with the marriage certificate.

And on a practical note, there isn't much anyone can do against a foreign consulate. By the time you get your voice heard (which I can't imagine) you will have been a British citizen for several years :D

Complaints to Solvit etc are shaky, mixed reports on people being successful. The problem with them REFUSING you a visa is that if you then travel with your wife and the border police see the refusal, you can imagine their reaction and further questions.

So, it's up to you, why don't you simply book flexible tickets, fully refundable and then cancel them after you get your visa. They are more expensive but you get your money back. And then you complain to Solvit about the practices of the Spanish.

P.S. did you submit your bank statements as proof of residence? I presume you did, and if so, it is the same as with the airline tickets, unnecessary in any sense! Just read their description in the link Jambo provided, it also mentions proof of travel to Spain so, even though illegal, they are at least consistent.

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Post by pinkpanter » Fri Oct 12, 2012 12:59 pm

mcovet wrote:the problem is that you have the PR sticker which does not say "family member" etc. but I presume your RC is still in the passport? Then you only show this at the border and travel without the visa with the marriage certificate.

And on a practical note, there isn't much anyone can do against a foreign consulate. By the time you get your voice heard (which I can't imagine) you will have been a British citizen for several years :D

Complaints to Solvit etc are shaky, mixed reports on people being successful. The problem with them REFUSING you a visa is that if you then travel with your wife and the border police see the refusal, you can imagine their reaction and further questions.

So, it's up to you, why don't you simply book flexible tickets, fully refundable and then cancel them after you get your visa. They are more expensive but you get your money back. And then you complain to Solvit about the practices of the Spanish.

P.S. did you submit your bank statements as proof of residence? I presume you did, and if so, it is the same as with the airline tickets, unnecessary in any sense! Just read their description in the link Jambo provided, it also mentions proof of travel to Spain so, even though illegal, they are at least consistent.
Thanks mcovet for your valuable comments!

We already have decided not to go this year and cancelled our travel plan to Spain after these all painful experience. My British nationality is due in December this year anyway so better travel after getting British Naturalization... and save money for it as it will also cost fortune to get BN.

Do you think they would put REJECTION on my passport? I don't think they could do this to EEA family member.

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Post by mcovet » Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:09 pm

From what I know, when one applies, upon receiving the application, they place a stamp on the page where the Schengen visa should go (if I remember correctly). If it is rejected, they normally don't just give it back saying it's incomplete, they simply reject it.

I will be honestly surprised if they rejected it, and it's likely that you will get your visa even without the tickets.

Remember that the process of naturalisation takes on average 3-4 months, then you have to attend a citizenship ceremony (another 2-3 weeks' wait) and finally apply for a passport- around 1 to 1.5 months. so you are looking at your next holiday some time summer next year...are you sure you wanna allow these muppets to ruin your winter holidays?

The application for naturalisation- £851, ceremony free (unless you go private- around £100-£150) and first adult passport- £84.50 including Check & Send service at the post office.

That's around £910 altogether. Anyway, you don't really need a visa to travel together.

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Post by pinkpanter » Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:16 pm

mcovet wrote:From what I know, when one applies, upon receiving the application, they place a stamp on the page where the Schengen visa should go (if I remember correctly). If it is rejected, they normally don't just give it back saying it's incomplete, they simply reject it.

I will be honestly surprised if they rejected it, and it's likely that you will get your visa even without the tickets.

Remember that the process of naturalisation takes on average 3-4 months, then you have to attend a citizenship ceremony (another 2-3 weeks' wait) and finally apply for a passport- around 1 to 1.5 months. so you are looking at your next holiday some time summer next year...are you sure you wanna allow these muppets to ruin your winter holidays?

The application for naturalisation- £851, ceremony free (unless you go private- around £100-£150) and first adult passport- £84.50 including Check & Send service at the post office.

That's around £910 altogether. Anyway, you don't really need a visa to travel together.
I don't have a choice. I really don't want to provide document which is not legally require. They also told me that even if I give them my tickets, then again it would take at least 4 weeks to re-process my application which is again against my rights and I may not be able to receive my passport on time before my flight. They are not treating me as a EEA family member or they don't know the law.

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Post by mcovet » Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:38 pm

cool, then why don't you withdraw your application and request your passport back to avoid any unnecessary stamps.

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Post by pinkpanter » Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:55 pm

mcovet wrote:cool, then why don't you withdraw your application and request your passport back to avoid any unnecessary stamps.
If they reject my visa then it will go in my favour anyway. Legally they cannot refuse visa to me except for reasons of "public policy, public security or public health. My marriage certificate alone should be suffice to proof my EEA family member status. I need in writting proof that they reject my visa on what ground, so that I could take necessary actions. If they put REJECT on my passport then, my case would be more strong. In addtion I also paid £17 service charges. I will not give up until i take some actions against them.

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