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French visa for spouse (ILR) of British citizen - documents

Immigration to European countries, don't post UK or Ireland related topics!

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djb123
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Post by djb123 » Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:20 am

Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:What is the citizenship of your wife?
A very key question, as depending on her citizenship she may be able to use just 5(2) even if she hasn't got a Residence Card.

Ben
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Post by Ben » Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:24 am

napers, I'm thinking of going on the internets and trying to argue with people that black is blue. Could you give me a few pointers?
I am no longer posting publicly on this website - PM me if needed.

86ti
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Post by 86ti » Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:28 am

Ben wrote:napers, I'm thinking of going on the internets and trying to argue with people that black is blue. Could you give me a few pointers?
I can :D, and you even do not have to go to the depths of the internet. It's right here. Remember?

Ben
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Post by Ben » Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:32 am

86ti wrote:
Ben wrote:napers, I'm thinking of going on the internets and trying to argue with people that black is blue. Could you give me a few pointers?
I can :D, and you even do not have to go to the depths of the internet. It's right here. Remember?
Oh god.... Yes, I remember republique.
I am no longer posting publicly on this website - PM me if needed.

jimbobski
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Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 1:44 am
Location: mottingham

Post by jimbobski » Sun Apr 03, 2011 2:49 am

Ok Ive been researching this for over a week....There's missinformation out there and visa agents giving wrong information. I have sent copies to the French, Dutch and Spanish embassies.

The spouse of an EU or EEA citzen has the right to free movement to ANY EU/EEA state....and to exercise that right....FACT.

To qualify (if travelling with you) and you have your valid travel document (passport). She or He is entitled to to entry EVEN IF NOT IN POSSESSION OF A SCHENGEN VISA....FACT.

Entitled to "minimum Check" rule as per Handbook for Border Guards Handbook issued by Commision of European Communities.

That rule insist on polite and a minimum check to ascertain Identity and conjical right ONLY....that means original marriage cert and translated copy..English or French (not compulsary but ideally apostille by ANY member signatory to the Hague convention (my wife is Russian hers was done in Russia and they are a signatory to the Hague convention)...

They CAN NOT insist you apostille it again in the UK for example provided its with a translation.

They can not insist on questioning about reason for travel or bank details letters of employment or school letters etc if they do... the instructions are to contact or notify the EU solvit commission (http://ec.europa.eu/solvit/)

There is then more waffle on the circuit about a permit should contain actual wording that they are "a family member of an EU/EAA national" its a wrong interpretation....its wording that shows for example she is a spouse or daughter or son or indeed yes that they are simply a family member. Visa agents are WRONG that it must bear exactly those words....

All that aside it matters NOT....
If travelling with spouse OR family member or joining them....they DO NOT require to hold the required visa and can NOT repeat CAN NOT legally be turned back... unless a threat or burden to that state!!!

This right has been clarified and upheld in 2002 by the highest European court the ECJ in case C-459/99 (MRAX vs Kingdom of Belgium) and has been incorportated explicitly into Directive 2004/38/EC

The right to not send back at the border a third country national who is to a national of a member state WITHOUT being in possession of a valid identity card or passport or, if necessary, a visa where he / she is able to prove his identity and conjugal ties and there is no evidence they represent a threat etc... (EC) No 2317/95 of 25th September 1995

Im carrying copies of these laws/rulings and even the border guards guidance booklet. Simply because some airline check in staff may not know the law and equally Border Guards......dont be smug be polite but firm!

Finally if like me, you travel with a daughter who is hers from previous and not your natural child and is not adopted they, if financially dependant on you have the same rights as your spouse...as do other relatives under certain circumstances such as grandparents etc.

So all the laws are there... and on your side, its just the embassy and agents make a lot of money from being selective on what quotes they use and THEIR interpretation of them!

best of luck and happy travelling. :D

Directive/2004/38/EC
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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Sun Apr 03, 2011 3:25 am

jimbobski

You may want to also see my post at https://eumovement.wordpress.com/2010/0 ... to-travel/

skele
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Location: France

Post by skele » Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:15 am

Well good luck! I am a UK citizen living in France with third country husband who has a residence card for France. He was not allowed to board the plane to England on Christmas eve of 2010 because he didn't have a visa.
Residence card makes him exempt from visa and we had marriage certificate etc just in case.

As for being firm and knowing your rights - I was and I did. All the 'gumption' in the world will get you nowhere.

Argued with staff on the ground who put me on phone with head of Charles De Gaulle airport security who kept telling me that he knows his job, I quoted the Directive to everybody and they all told me my husband could not get on the plane without a visa.

They called someone in UK who said no but that he would call Birmingham airport to see if they would make an exception and they said no, not without a visa.
Needless to say Christmas was cancelled.

So in this case it was the French and the British who denied my husband's rights. So what do I do about it when no one is interested? The UKBA/Home Office won't even respond to me and we don't have money for a lawyer.

No one at the EU gives a toss whether the laws are implemented or not.

:x

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