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Italian citizenship through decent enquiry

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200krisx
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Italian citizenship through decent enquiry

Post by 200krisx » Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:38 pm

Hi all,

I've been doing a bit of searching around the web and on various boards but haven't really come to anything that relates to my situation. I won't mention the brexit event too much but its really put a spanner in the works for what I had hoped for after I had finished my Doctorate degree... and also if the media reports are correct with Stanley Johnson applying for French citizenship based on being an apparent descendant of a french national, then it had me wondering if my future plans could be revived.

Basically, my parents split when I was around 14 years old (I'm 35yr old now)... since then I've been isolated from my fathers side of the family and have felt like I would be shunned by my family if I were to ever contact the other side of the family. With good reason I might add, he isn't a very nice person and was officially charged with offenses that I do not wish to discuss at this time as I feel they somehow reflect on me, but it involved my sister whom had a different biological father...


So cutting to the chase after all that waffle.... my grandmother on my fathers side immigrated to Italy and was married to an Italian national. I think they were married in the 70's or 80's. It was always my intention that once I had finished my current doctorate degree, that I would be able to move to Germany, France, Italy or Spain after completion of this degree and try to reconnect with these long lost relatives if they are still alive and kicking, whilst also setting up my life on the continent. But now I have been stripped of these rights although Europe has always felt more like home than the one I am forced to currently reside in.

So the basic question that I have is... would I have even the remotest of chances in successfully applying for an Italian citizenship based on my Grandmothers status? The other issue that I have is I have no idea if she has unfortunately passed away. I've been trying to find official records of both the marriage and if there was a death certificate if the worst has occured but the Italian records do not seem to be as open access as the british records.. she was born in 1936 after all but it would seem that if there was the possibility of her still being alive, I could be quickly running out of time to reconnect and finding out about some of my real ancestry.

I don't wish to cause any political debate here but I'd also like to renounce my citizenship to this country as soon as possible if I could get Italian citizenship. I no longer even recognise this country anymore and feel its political stance is against my moral beliefs and doesn't really reflect sensibly on what the people want. I hope this doesn't offend anybody, it's truly not my intention and I believe everybody has the right to be proud of their country if they so wish, but I also believe that you should also have the right to feel a connection to the land you live upon.

Sorry for the long post and the story of my pathetic life events :lol: maybe it's all just a fairytale in my head.

Many thanks,

Kris. :)

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ALKB
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Re: Italian citizenship through decent enquiry

Post by ALKB » Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:38 am

200krisx wrote:
Sat Jan 23, 2021 5:38 pm

my grandmother on my fathers side immigrated to Italy and was married to an Italian national. I think they were married in the 70's or 80's.
What do you mean?

Is the 'Italian national' your grandfather?

If so, where was your father born?
I am not a regulated immigration advisor. I am offering an opinion and not advice.

200krisx
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Re: Italian citizenship through decent enquiry

Post by 200krisx » Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:43 am

No, my grandmother remarried in Italy in the 70's or 80's to an Italian citizen I believe. She gave birth to my father in the UK in 1960 according to the records that I can find.

200krisx
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Re: Italian citizenship through decent enquiry

Post by 200krisx » Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:00 am

The other reason I ask is because I came across this document here: https://shepwedd.com/sites/default/file ... -Guide.pdf

Which states (pg 32):

"A direct descendant (child, grandchild, great-grandchild etc.) of an Italian
citizen is Italian by operation of law and entitled to be registered as a citizen in
an Italian public register regardless of the nationality of the other parent or the
country where they were born."

So it has me wondering if it applies to my situation or if anybody has experience of a similar situation? Or if I'm just barking up the wrong tree completely.

Many thanks,

Kris 🙂

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ALKB
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Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:32 am
Location: Berlin
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Re: Italian citizenship through decent enquiry

Post by ALKB » Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:03 pm

200krisx wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:00 am
The other reason I ask is because I came across this document here: https://shepwedd.com/sites/default/file ... -Guide.pdf

Which states (pg 32):

"A direct descendant (child, grandchild, great-grandchild etc.) of an Italian
citizen is Italian by operation of law and entitled to be registered as a citizen in
an Italian public register regardless of the nationality of the other parent or the
country where they were born."

So it has me wondering if it applies to my situation or if anybody has experience of a similar situation? Or if I'm just barking up the wrong tree completely.

Many thanks,

Kris 🙂
Italian citizenship law is mostly based on jus sanguinis, like most European countries. The problem here is that you are not a direct descendant of an Italian national.

Your grandmother may or may not have become an Italian national automatically when she married an Italian national (depending on when exactly she got married) or she may or may not have naturalised at a later point in time.

In any case, if she became an Italian citizen at all, this would have happened after your father's birth. So, you are a direct descendant of - I assume - a British woman.

I don't see how you'd have a claim on Italian citizenship, but this kind of law is very complex and you'd need a specialist to look at what exactly was the law at the time your grandmother naturalised and at the time of your birth.

I know lots of Americans claim Italian citizenship after several generations of immigration to America but it's a slow and complicated process and involves lots of paperwork showing that the original immigrant did not renounce Italian citizenship before his children were born, that he didn't serve in the army of a foreign country, etc. Basically, they need to show an unbroken bloodline of Italian descent and the prior generation still holding claim to Italian citizenship at the time of birth of the next generation and so on is very important.

Have you spoken to the Italian Embassy, yet?
I am not a regulated immigration advisor. I am offering an opinion and not advice.

200krisx
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Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2021 4:47 pm

Re: Italian citizenship through decent enquiry

Post by 200krisx » Sun Jan 24, 2021 12:32 pm

Yes, my mother is British.

I have sent an email to xxxx to see if this was an area they could advise upon and also a few Italian migration experts/lawyers... but I've only started enquiring since the early hours of saturday so yet to get any reply and as I'm a full time student, I don't have an income at the moment, so trying to get as much information as possible.

The email address I have for the embassy is consolato.edimburgo@esteri.it but if they're anything like the English, I'm assuming it would be better to call other than expect a response from an email?

On a plus side, I've managed to find my grandmothers Italian husband on social media, but being quite elderly now, he doesn't seem to use it much and trying to get answers could also be a long process and I'm trying to be sensitive around the issue of determining if my grandmother is still alive.. he does remember me which is a good sign I guess but not seeing someone in over 2 decades means conversation isn't exactly flowing 🤣

I have also read that if she was married prior to april 1983, she would have gained automatic citizenship through marriage, is this correct?

Thanks for your help.

Kris 🙂

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