Non-eu spouse in germany- now what?

[night_star]

Hello users,
I am a EU country national (UK) and my partner is non-eu (Nepal). I was recently successful in applying for my non-eu spouse's visa in our home country which got granted. We travel to Germany shortly middle of this month (May). The plan is once me and my partner is in Germany we will then somehow extend my non-eu partner's stay and register for the residence card. My long term plan is that we can hopefully do a SS route eventually and return to the UK with my non-eu spouse. However, I am unsure of the exact steps that I should take whilst I am in Germany. The important thing is that my spouse is only given a 1month (30 days) Schengen C visit visa, so we have to act quicky.
I have tried to gather information from reading similar situation stories from people who have travelled to Ireland etc, but could not find any information on what to do when visa issued is only for 30 days (as usually most if not all Schengen short stay visas are issued for 90days). Anyway, hoping that this duration is still ok for entry clearance, once we are in Germany, my guess is that I should do the following
1. Look for accomodation for me and my spouse, and register her presence in Germany by doing an Anmeldung. Does this need to happen within the 30days before the visa expires?
2. Once registered, we apply for her German residence card. Where can I find more information on where to do this. We will be staying in Berlin. Does anyone know what Burgeramt in Berlin and specifially what dept (online links etc would be hekpful) that handle this? How long is the waiting time? Again, does this need to happen before the 30days of the visa expires?
3. House: we are currently looking for accomodation in Berlin but one worry is always this: as we want the contract to also inc. my spouse's name, will landlord's look at her Nepali nationality and refuse to do a joint contract including her in the house contract?
What can we do to convince the landlord to allow her to be included?

Please if someone who knows more or has gone through similar experiences shed more light? At the moment, we are both searching through the web for as much information - unfortunately, the specific details are often not included. We would really appreciate if someone could shed some light. Many thanks.

[gokulatti]

Hi, I am unaware of the exact requisite for SS in UK, maybe someone with more experience for UK might help you out. For SS technically you need minimum 3 months of exercising treaty right in an other member state, you can expect something similar for UK.

For germany, for residence permit for your spouse in berlin https://service.berlin.de/dienstleistung/324282/en/

The 30 day visa your wife received is the entry visa to move to germany so as to apply for her residence permit as mentioned above, you and your family member have 3 months of unconditional stay in germany, which means you don't have to put the above application immediately, you can sort out other everything first and then when all are in order you can apply whenever you want within the first 3 months.

Landlords are obliged to add your spouse name in the rental contract on your request usually they do it on their own, also make sure the space is just enough for a couple. They cannot discriminate based on your spouses nationality. However, If your spouse isn't working they might have to make sure you earn enough for the both of you and maybe you might need to pay additional deposit.

The maximum time allowed for an article 10 residence card is 6 months. If it is a straight forward application, you can expect it to be done in 2 to 3 months. good luck

[mgb]

1. The address registration (Anmeldung) should be done in the 2 weeks after you move in at the Bürgerbüro.
2. The foreigner office (Ausländerbehörde) is responsible for the residence card and they have 6 month time to issue it. The application should be done in the first 3 month of the stay.
3. The landlord has to sign the address registration application for both. The rent contract doesn't matter.

[night_star]

1. The address registration (Anmeldung) should be done in the 2 weeks after you move in at the Bürgerbüro.
2. The foreigner office (Ausländerbehörde) is responsible for the residence card and they have 6 month time to issue it. The application should be done in the first 3 month of the stay.
3. The landlord has to sign the address registration application for both. The rent contract doesn't matter.

Hello mgb,
thank a lot for your quick response. Apologies it has taken me a while to get back to you, we have been very busy trying to organise everything like selling our house, cars etc over here, and getting ready for the move!

Ok, the first two points are now clear to me. So the landlord has to sign 1. (Anmeldung) in order then for my spouse to have a residential address in Germany, right? How can we convince landlord to sign the registration application becuase we are worried that my spouse has entry visa only on her Nepali passport which is valid only for a month. Will any landlord not ask the obvious, which is that how is she going to stay legally after that period?
I am just slightly worried how we can get the landlord to be on our side, and sign the required papers.

Also just to clarify it is first Anmeldung > then Residence card application right, and not the other way way around?

Thanks again for the help!

[night_star]

Hi, I am unaware of the exact requisite for SS in UK, maybe someone with more experience for UK might help you out. For SS technically you need minimum 3 months of exercising treaty right in an other member state, you can expect something similar for UK.

For germany, for residence permit for your spouse in berlin https://service.berlin.de/dienstleistung/324282/en/

The 30 day visa your wife received is the entry visa to move to germany so as to apply for her residence permit as mentioned above, you and your family member have 3 months of unconditional stay in germany, which means you don't have to put the above application immediately, you can sort out other everything first and then when all are in order you can apply whenever you want within the first 3 months.

Landlords are obliged to add your spouse name in the rental contract on your request usually they do it on their own, also make sure the space is just enough for a couple. They cannot discriminate based on your spouses nationality. However, If your spouse isn't working they might have to make sure you earn enough for the both of you and maybe you might need to pay additional deposit.

The maximum time allowed for an article 10 residence card is 6 months. If it is a straight forward application, you can expect it to be done in 2 to 3 months. good luck

Hello gokulati,
Thanks so much for your response. Your points are very clear, I just hope the landlord sees it that way too, and doesn't ask us too many questions. My spouse is not working and not sure she will find suitable employment when in Germany as she doesn't speak German at all.
Ok just to clarify one thing, after the 30 day visa has expired, does my spouse become illegal? If we dont extend the visa, but she simply stays with me for until 3 months from the date of entry is that making her stay illegal? Thanks and your help is much appreciated!

[mgb]

@night_star
The landlord should know his duties.
He has to issue a so called "Bestätigung für die Meldebehörde".
Example from the city Hannover:
https://form.hannover-stadt.de/pdf/meld ... tigung.pdf
You have to do the address registration first and than the application for the residence permit (Aufenthaltskarte).
Some registration offices offer the possibility to do both in one step and forward the residence permit application than to the foreigner office.
Your wife has the unconditional right to stay with you up to 3 month. Proof is the entry stamp in the passport, marriage certificate and you as eu citizen.

[gokulatti]

Ok just to clarify one thing, after the 30 day visa has expired, does my spouse become illegal? If we dont extend the visa, but she simply stays with me for until 3 months from the date of entry is that making her stay illegal? Thanks and your help is much appreciated!

No, she doesn't become illegal, she has the right to stay unconditionally for the first 3 months because YOU as an EU citizen have right to stay for 3 months and she has her rights derived from you. You should also understand, once family ties has been established, any grounds for refusal can only be on public policy, security and health. illegal stay isn't one of them. There has been cases where a TCN has been staying illegally in an host member state before meeting a EU national and subsequently had family ties and have been successful in their application later on. illegal stay on its own isn't grounds for refusal in the context of directive 2004/38. So my advise is don't worry too much

[Wanderer]

Couple of random thoughts as they occur to me from our time in Germany (not SS related)

1. To deal with officialdom decent German is required, IMHO experience of all the Northern EU states Germany and Germans are the least likely to understand English.

2. You interchange 'partner' with 'spouse' - note that Germany does not recognise unmarried partners for family visa purposes, locally or EU.....

3. Renting a place is a bugger in Germany, when I was there I think we paid something like 3 months in advance plus 1 and 3/4 times rent to the letting agent (tenant pays the rental fees in Germany) - was over €8,000 and that was while ago! Also renting is considered a long term thing, when you move in there is virtually nothing in the place, no Spam, no fittings, no light sockets sometimes, just bare wires. You can rent with these, obviously costs more but be aware and familiarise yourself with the local renting jargon.

Apologies if you know all this and also when I was there it was 2007 so things may have changed bit!

[Casa]

Couple of random thoughts as they occur to me from our time in Germany (not SS related)

1. To deal with officialdom decent German is required, IMHO experience of all the Northern EU states Germany and Germans are the least likely to understand English.

2. You interchange 'partner' with 'spouse' - note that Germany does not recognise unmarried partners for family visa purposes, locally or EU.....

3. Renting a place is a bugger in Germany, when I was there I think we paid something like 3 months in advance plus 1 and 3/4 times rent to the letting agent (tenant pays the rental fees in Germany) - was over €8,000 and that was while ago! Also renting is considered a long term thing, when you move in there is virtually nothing in the place, no Spam, no fittings, no light sockets sometimes, just bare wires. You can rent with these, obviously costs more but be aware and familiarise yourself with the local renting jargon.

Apologies if you know all this and also when I was there it was 2007 so things may have changed bit!

To avoid any confusion, the Board's word sensor auto changes k i t c h e n to read 'Spam'. Wanderer wasn't referring to a lack of the 'delicacy' tinned chopped pork & ham!

[night_star]

Hi all,
Thanks a lot for your response. It has been very useful.

Just heard a horror story by word of mouth from someone who said that they travelled with their dependent parent who was unemployed to Germany and had to buy out private health insurance which was not cheap! I just wonder if any board users here can relate or maybe tell otherwise....For my case with my spouse can we expect to be in this situation of having to buy private insurance as wife does not work/ will not work in Germany. Any suggestions of who might be a good (cheap but covers the useful needs) private health insurance company?

Thanks.

[Wanderer]

Hi all,
Thanks a lot for your response. It has been very useful.

Just heard a horror story by word of mouth from someone who said that they travelled with their dependent parent who was unemployed to Germany and had to buy out private health insurance which was not cheap! I just wonder if any board users here can relate or maybe tell otherwise....For my case with my spouse can we expect to be in this situation of having to buy private insurance as wife does not work/ will not work in Germany. Any suggestions of who might be a good (cheap but covers the useful needs) private health insurance company?

Thanks.

I can believe that would true, the NHS is the shining light of the UK - having worked in many EU states I can confirm there is nothing remotely close anywhere else, apart from maybe the Nordics.

I'm working in Ireland now, and I have to pay USC etc for the hospitals etc, PRSI as well, AND it's 60 Euro to visit the GP, 100 Euro for an A&E visit plus full cost of prescriptions (last one was 32 Euro, AND health insurance of 180 Euro a month. Was similar when I worked in Switzerland, I'd guess Germany is similar.

[mgb]

Hi all,
....For my case with my spouse can we expect to be in this situation of having to buy private insurance as wife does not work/ will not work in Germany. Any suggestions of who might be a good (cheap but covers the useful needs) private health insurance company?

Thanks.

If you work no. Your wife will be covered from your health insurance as worker.

[waqasars]

My Residence card just approved on 11 May 2017. The decision was made on the spot. So application processed in one working day. I will receive the card in 3 to 4 weeks. I got my document number and issue, expiry date on approval receipt.

Here is my complete story.

1: Booked accommodation on https://www.thehomelike.com/. you just have to pay the first month rent
online using credit card.

2: Arrived in Dusseldorf on 15 February 2017 and Got confirmation from apartment owner on my name and wife name.

3: On 17 February 2017 went for residence registration with Local Town hall. Only passport and owner confirmation require for this purpose. The registration process took only 10 mints and anmeldung paper was in our hand You can go by appointment or without appointment.

4: 20th February 2017 went to Ausländerbehörde Düsseldorf to apply the residence card. Again went there without appointment. They refused to talk without translator. The were very rude and did not speak a single word of English.

5: Again went on 21 February with translator They said you people come without appointment and i dont have enough time to process your application today. I will make a new appointment. He made a new appointment and provided a list of documents for residence card.

6: We went again on 15 March 2017. Our bad luck translator was late by 10 mints. He did not process the application bcoz of the translator was late. But he provided some information like we need working contract of Eu citizen and the Salary should be 1000 Euro Net.

7. The new appointment was on 11 May 2017. This time he deal us without translator. He was very nice this time and processed the application with complete documents. He did not ask a single question about documents and related application. He approved the residence card on the spot and told me it will be valid for 5 years and you will receive it in 3 to 4 weeks. Only paid around 29 Euro fee for the card.

Following is the complete list complete documents.

1. Passport
2. Passport Picture
3. Marriage certificate translated in German and orignal
4. Birth certificate of applicant translated in German and original
5. Anmeldung for both
6.Work contract on my wife name (We provided 1300 Euro Net salary)
7. Health Insurance (Confirmation Letter) of my wife ( You need a regular German Health insurance as they will not accept other Eu country insurance) in our case it was AOK.

I advise you book your accommodation through homelike its a bit expensive but good to complete the process. They will not ask for work contract. Here in Germany landlord rent the accommodation with work contract.

It is very hard to find a job without German skills. My wife got the contract only 2 days before our appointment.

I dont know about Berlin. But in my opinion Dusseldorf is good to process the application.

Regards,
Waqas

[mgb]

The official didn't follow the law. The necessary documents are exactly defined in german law.
The english translation is available frome here:

https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/engl ... html#p0078

[waqasars]

It does not matter. They have mentioned all documents on their website.

You have to prove your source of income and health insurance.

All other documents like Passport, residence registration, Family registration these are the mandatory requirements.

[mgb]

You have to prove your source of income and health insurance.

If the eu citizen is not selfsufficient this is a offence against the law.

[mgb]

At the internet site of the Ausländerbehörde in Düsseldorf they are writing "Unter Umständen" which means in certain circumstances. Exercising treaty rights as worker is not such a circumstance for proving source of income and health insurance.

[waqasars]

Yes. If you are exercising treaty rights as worker then you have to provide proof of income and insurance. If you are exercising treaty rights as self sufficient you have to show them savings.

My case has been just approved. I have face these circumstances in reality.

If you are exercising treaty rights as Worker they will never accept the case without work contract and health insurance.

I have shared my story and it will be a example for New applicants.

[mgb]

Do you say the german lawgiver are telling porkies in german law?
A offence against the law make it not right.

[gokulatti]

Usually, when you are exercising rights as workers the company makes sure you have at least the basic insurance for which the premium is taken from your remuneration or the company pays it for you fully or partially. This also changes according to a specific member state, for example in Norway, every resident has basic insurance by the state so their is no need to take an health insurance. In contrast, In Netherlands the state does not provide health insurance on its own and every resident is supposed to have at least the basic insurance by law. Therefore, If a member state doesn't provide state insurance and your company also doesn't provide one or you opt out, then you should have an insurance privately but not mandatory according to EU law but could be based on that member states domestic law.

Now, the coverage of the EU citizens' family member is completely subject to the policy, usually you can add your family member to the policy for free or by just paying a little more premium.

Now is insurance mandatory for exercising as a worker I don't think so because the authorities know it will be either taken care of the employer or the state itself provides it. However, If you are exercising as a self sufficient person than a health insurance is mandatory. Yes, proof for being a worker can be work contract/ pay slip/ in my case just an email print out from the employer that xxx is working for yyy from --- to --- and the project duration zzz.

Please correct me if I am wrong

[ashfaq392]

My Residence card just approved on 11 May 2017. The decision was made on the spot. So application processed in one working day. I will receive the card in 3 to 4 weeks. I got my document number and issue, expiry date on approval receipt.

Here is my complete story.

1: Booked accommodation on https://www.thehomelike.com/. you just have to pay the first month rent
online using credit card.

2: Arrived in Dusseldorf on 15 February 2017 and Got confirmation from apartment owner on my name and wife name.

3: On 17 February 2017 went for residence registration with Local Town hall. Only passport and owner confirmation require for this purpose. The registration process took only 10 mints and anmeldung paper was in our hand You can go by appointment or without appointment.

4: 20th February 2017 went to Ausländerbehörde Düsseldorf to apply the residence card. Again went there without appointment. They refused to talk without translator. The were very rude and did not speak a single word of English.

5: Again went on 21 February with translator They said you people come without appointment and i dont have enough time to process your application today. I will make a new appointment. He made a new appointment and provided a list of documents for residence card.

6: We went again on 15 March 2017. Our bad luck translator was late by 10 mints. He did not process the application bcoz of the translator was late. But he provided some information like we need working contract of Eu citizen and the Salary should be 1000 Euro Net.

7. The new appointment was on 11 May 2017. This time he deal us without translator. He was very nice this time and processed the application with complete documents. He did not ask a single question about documents and related application. He approved the residence card on the spot and told me it will be valid for 5 years and you will receive it in 3 to 4 weeks. Only paid around 29 Euro fee for the card.

Following is the complete list complete documents.

1. Passport
2. Passport Picture
3. Marriage certificate translated in German and orignal
4. Birth certificate of applicant translated in German and original
5. Anmeldung for both
6.Work contract on my wife name (We provided 1300 Euro Net salary)
7. Health Insurance (Confirmation Letter) of my wife ( You need a regular German Health insurance as they will not accept other Eu country insurance) in our case it was AOK.

I advise you book your accommodation through homelike its a bit expensive but good to complete the process. They will not ask for work contract. Here in Germany landlord rent the accommodation with work contract.

It is very hard to find a job without German skills. My wife got the contract only 2 days before our appointment.

I dont know about Berlin. But in my opinion Dusseldorf is good to process the application.

Regards,
Waqas

Salam waqas bro, I'm from Ireland and would like to cantact you plz regarding process in Germany. You can reach me EMAIL REMOVED BY MODERATOR. Plz non English text removed, thanks

MODERATOR EDIT: Please do not post personal contact information on a public forum.

[waqasars]

Are you applying for yourself or spouse?

[Addy0520]

Waqas can you tell me what was your legal status at that time i mean before applying for residence card and did you married in germany or some other country? Like i got married in bulgaria but now my wife is working in germany but i dont have any legal status yet so can i apply for residence card in germany