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Schengen visas sudden death in case of no deal Brexit

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Zerubbabel
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Schengen visas sudden death in case of no deal Brexit

Post by Zerubbabel » Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:16 pm

I am reading this text again and again on the German consulate in London webpage:

https://uk.diplo.de/uk-en/02

IMPORTANT NOTICE
In case of an exit of the United Kingdom from the European Union without a withdrawal agreement (“no-deal Brexit”) the rights of British citizens and their family members to freedom of movement within the Union will no longer apply. This also includes the family members of German nationals residing in the UK under freedom of movement rules.

This means that in case of a “no-deal Brexit” any Schengen visa issued to a family member of a British or German citizen (on the basis of EU freedom of movement rules) will cease to be legally valid the moment the UK’s membership in the European Union ends. In such case the visa will therefore no longer be recognized as valid for entry into Germany with immediate effect and irrespective of the validity dates stated on the visa.


Why in the world a Schengen visa delivered to the family of a German national will cease to be valid in case of no deal Brexit??? I don't see why it can be affected by the status of the UK in the UE.

Note also, that visa will be invalid from the date of the hard Brexit regardless of any date written on them!

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ALKB
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Re: Schengen visas sudden death in case of no deal Brexit

Post by ALKB » Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:00 pm

Zerubbabel wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:16 pm


Why in the world a Schengen visa delivered to the family of a German national will cease to be valid in case of no deal Brexit??? I don't see why it can be affected by the status of the UK in the UE.

They mean family members of a German citizen residing in the UK. The Schengen visa would have been issued under EU rules due to the German national exercising treaty rights. If the UK leaves the EU with no deal, German nationals residing in the UK will cease to exercise EU treaty rights.

Their non-EEA family members would have to apply for a regular Schengen visa (showing financial information, etc.) or a family reunification visa, if the German national plans to return to Germany permanently - no more Surinder Singh route via UK. The family member would have to meet the requirements for German domestic immigration law - show proof of German language skills, etc. such visas can take many months to be processed.
I am not a regulated immigration advisor. I am offering an opinion and not advice.

Zerubbabel
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Re: Schengen visas sudden death in case of no deal Brexit

Post by Zerubbabel » Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:13 pm

Thank you for your input.

I think we can infer the same for Schengen visas delivered in the UK by other EEA countries. In case of no deal Brexit, all these visas will be immediately invalid.

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ALKB
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Re: Schengen visas sudden death in case of no deal Brexit

Post by ALKB » Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:11 am

Zerubbabel wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:13 pm
Thank you for your input.

I think we can infer the same for Schengen visas delivered in the UK by other EEA countries. In case of no deal Brexit, all these visas will be immediately invalid.
One would think so, since all Schengen countries should apply the same principles. Otherwise, if this would be a country-by-country decision, the family member of a German national could simply enter through The Netherlands or Belgium or wherever and gain entry to Germany that way. I wonder whether the EU has issued a statement about this?

Also, what will happen to family members on Surinder Singh via the UK who have not yet gained permanent residence? Will their residence cards be immediately invalidated, too?
I am not a regulated immigration advisor. I am offering an opinion and not advice.

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Re: Schengen visas sudden death in case of no deal Brexit

Post by Zerubbabel » Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:38 am

Yes, that's worrying indeed. Surinder Singh route without permanent residence would be in difficult situation.

I am thinking also of all the people who go to visit EU countries end October on valid visas but they can find themselves illegally present in the EU on November 1st.

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Re: Schengen visas sudden death in case of no deal Brexit

Post by ALKB » Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:45 pm

Zerubbabel wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:38 am
Yes, that's worrying indeed. Surinder Singh route without permanent residence would be in difficult situation.

I am thinking also of all the people who go to visit EU countries end October on valid visas but they can find themselves illegally present in the EU on November 1st.
Interestingly, the website explicitly states that such visas would not be valid for entry into Germany, it does not say that the visas would no longer be valid for entry into the Schengen zone.

Maybe they do stay valid for entry into any other Schengen country? After all, a German national visiting France for instance, would then again be exercising treaty rights and would have the right to have their non-EEA family members travel with them. Very confusing as there would not be any way to check that they don't enter into Germany through France (or any other Schengen country).
I am not a regulated immigration advisor. I am offering an opinion and not advice.

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Re: Schengen visas sudden death in case of no deal Brexit

Post by ibwe » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:44 am

I am also confused by this as it pertains to ONLY Schengen visas (under free movement).

Theoretically any Schengen visa (under free movement) issued to non EU/EEA family members of UK citizens are the ones that will be affected as UK will no longer be a member of EU.

As for non EU/EEA family members of German citizens in UK, I see no reason in invalidating their Schengen visas (under free movement). If you want to permanently move to Germany then you do not need a Schengen visa at all.

I think they will have to explain clearly later as it is a bit confusing now.

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Re: Schengen visas sudden death in case of no deal Brexit

Post by Zerubbabel » Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:11 am

ibwe wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:44 am
I am also confused by this as it pertains to ONLY Schengen visas (under free movement).

Theoretically any Schengen visa (under free movement) issued to non EU/EEA family members of UK citizens are the ones that will be affected as UK will no longer be a member of EU.

As for non EU/EEA family members of German citizens in UK, I see no reason in invalidating their Schengen visas (under free movement). If you want to permanently move to Germany then you do not need a Schengen visa at all.

I think they will have to explain clearly later as it is a bit confusing now.
Man, it's a total mess. I don't want to be travelling the week after the Brexit. I see the queues and the arguments at airlines desks and immigration control.

Just today, no Brexit, as an EEA you try to travel to an EU country with your non-EEA spouse, it's a nightmare. EU regulations allows you to travel visa since 2006 and to this day, many many professionals are not aware of it and get in your way.

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