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Travelling to EU/Schengen on Travel document after Brexit

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n8net
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Schengen visa after Brexit

Post by n8net » Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:18 pm

I understand from the news/Gov websites, if you are a British citizen, you can still visiit Schengen countries without applying for Visa for 90 days.

But, how about those with the UK issued Travel document who used to be able to visit Schenger without visa - do they need to apply for schengen visa now ?

also what is the process these days and where can I find which country I need to apply for if visiitng multiple countires ( need to travel for a urgent business reason)

secret.simon
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Re: Schengen visa after Brexit

Post by secret.simon » Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:22 am

I suspect that you would need a Schengen visa to travel to the EU now.

Who requires or does not require a Schengen visa is determined by the person's citizenship, not the country of issue of the Travel Document.

While the UK was a part of the EU, UK issued travel documents were likely recognised by other EEA member-states as the UK was a fellow member-state.

Now that it is not, your travel document would be assessed the same as one issued by the US, for instance.
n8net wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 7:18 pm
where can I find which country I need to apply for if visiitng multiple countires
Where and how to apply (for a Schengen visa) wrote:You must lodge the application for a Schengen visa at the Consulate of the country that you intend to visit, or – if you intend to visit more than one Schengen State, the Consulate of the country where you will spend the longest period.

If you intend to visit several Schengen States and the stays will be of equal length, you must apply at the Consulate of the country whose external borders you will cross first when entering the Schengen area.

...

The application must, in principle, be submitted to the Consulate at least 15 days before the intended journey and cannot be lodged earlier than six months before the start of the intended journey. You may have to book an appointment before lodging the application.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

n8net
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Re: Schengen visa after Brexit

Post by n8net » Sun Apr 25, 2021 11:05 am

thanks Simon, for the answers.. much appreciated.

Also, just to confirm, Schengen visa is not just for tourism right, it also covers any activity such as visiting family and providing business services if less than 90 day duration right ?

Also, I read online, even if you require Schengen visa, if you are married to a EU / EFTA national, you then become exempted...?

secret.simon
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Re: Schengen visa after Brexit

Post by secret.simon » Sun Apr 25, 2021 3:48 pm

n8net wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 11:05 am
Also, I read online, even if you require Schengen visa, if you are married to a EU / EFTA national, you then become exempted...?
If you are married to an EEA citizen of the EEA member-state that you are not entering the Schengen zone in AND are either accompanying or joining the EEA citizen, they you can be granted a visa at the border.

However, keep in mind that the airlines will not allow you to board without a visa stamped into your travel document and therefore you may not make it to the Schengen zone border.

The only way this exemption would work for you would be if you take the Eurostar, where you can interact with the French PAF (Police Aux Frontieres) within St Pancras Station and they can make a decision on whether to issue you a visa on the spot. You will need either your EEA citizen spouse with you or proof that you will be joining her in the Schengen Zone country you are traveling to.
n8net wrote:
Sun Apr 25, 2021 11:05 am
Also, just to confirm, Schengen visa is not just for tourism right, it also covers any activity such as visiting family and providing business services if less than 90 day duration right ?
I am not sure of this and will leave it to others to advise further on this point.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

n8net
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Re: Schengen visa after Brexit

Post by n8net » Mon Apr 26, 2021 11:57 pm

secret.simon wrote:
Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:22 am
I suspect that you would need a Schengen visa to travel to the EU now.

Who requires or does not require a Schengen visa is determined by the person's citizenship, not the country of issue of the Travel Document.

While the UK was a part of the EU, UK issued travel documents were likely recognised by other EEA member-states as the UK was a fellow member-state.

Now that it is not, your travel document would be assessed the same as one issued by the US, for instance.
Looking here though, looks like UK issues Travel docs are treated same as British passports.

http://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/sites/ ... by_uk.xlsx

also for Swiss embassy explicitly say they are accepted..
https://static.tlscontact.com/media/gb/ ... 1546934990

Hope I am right.

n8net
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Re: Schengen visa after Brexit

Post by n8net » Fri May 14, 2021 3:12 pm

what is interesting is when asked directly for Hollands embassy they say UK issued Travel documents (Blue Passport) need to apply for Schengen visa while the swiss embassy and the EU website says otherwise
(http://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/sites/ ... by_uk.xlsx)

I am not sure who to believe...how can I get more definitive answers pls?

n8net
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Travelling to EU/Schengen on Travel document after Brexit

Post by n8net » Wed May 19, 2021 3:16 pm

I am getting contradictory info regarding travelling to EU countries on UK gov issued Travel documents (under 1952 UN Convention, also known as Blue Passport) after Brexit.

does anybody know for sure what are the rules and regulations regarding this immigration right now after Brexit pls?

Also even pre-Brexit, even among Schengen countries some used to accept this and others did not - but as Schengen countries shouldn't the immigration rules be the same..

secret.simon
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Re: Travelling to EU/Schengen on Travel document after Brexit

Post by secret.simon » Wed May 19, 2021 8:58 pm

According to the Wikipedia article on the Visa policy of the Schengen zone, member-states of the Schengen zone are allowed to derogate from the standard visa policy as regards refugees and stateless people.

So many of the Schengen member-states have different policies regarding refugees and stateless people being able to travel to Schengen member-states.

In the list below, the UK is an Annex II country.
According to a table compiled by the European Commission, some Schengen countries grant visa-free entry to refugees or stateless people who reside in Ireland or in an Annex II country/territory:

Austria, Cyprus, Estonia, Greece, Latvia: none
Belgium: refugees in Ireland, United States
Bulgaria, Germany, Iceland: Ireland, all Annex II
Croatia: Andorra, Canada, Ireland, Japan, Monaco, San Marino, Taiwan, United Kingdom, United States, Vatican City
Czech Republic, Malta, Poland: refugees in Ireland
Denmark, Portugal, Romania, Sweden: Ireland
Finland, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Norway, Switzerland: Ireland, United Kingdom
France: Andorra, Ireland, Monaco
Hungary: all Annex II; refugees in Ireland
Italy: Ireland, all Annex II except Taiwan
Luxembourg, Netherlands: United Kingdom; refugees in Ireland, United States
Slovakia: Hong Kong, Macau; refugees in Andorra, Argentina, Australia, Brazil, Brunei, Canada, Chile, Costa Rica, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Israel, Malaysia, Mexico, Monaco, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Palau, Panama, Paraguay, Singapore, United States, Uruguay, Vatican City, Venezuela
Slovenia: Andorra, Argentina, Australia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Brazil, Brunei, Canada, Chile, Colombia, Guatemala, Hong Kong, Ireland, Israel, Japan, Macau, Mexico, Moldova, Monaco, Montenegro, New Zealand, North Macedonia, Peru, San Marino, Serbia, Singapore, South Korea, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom, United States, Uruguay, Vatican City, Venezuela
Spain: Ireland, Taiwan; stateless people in United Arab Emirates
So, from that list, I would say that you can travel visa-exempt to certain specific Schengen member-states (Bulgaria, Germany, Iceland, Finland, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Norway, Switzerland, Hungary, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Slovenia and Croatia). I am not sure what happens if you enter another Schengen member-state not on the list above from there (such as if you enter Belgium from the Netherlands or if you travel from Germany to France, for instance).

Be aware that there are random border checks on buses at least at most borders within the Schengen Zone. I encountered border checks when traveling from Austria to Germany and Belgium to Germany, for instance (and this was years before Covid).

And of course, if you are staying in a hotel or hostel, they are (in most EU member-states) required to take down your passport details and visa/resident status. So while there may be no "border" checks, it does not mean that there are no checks whatsoever.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

n8net
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Re: Travelling to EU/Schengen on Travel document after Brexit

Post by n8net » Thu May 20, 2021 8:27 pm

thanks a lot Simon, very useful..

but on the spreadsheet in (sheet 2. 2.Exemptions), in row 131 has all the countries that accept Refugee Travel document for visa-free entry right?

and it has France as accepting, but your list has not..am I not reading the sheet correctly or mistaken

could you pls advice as this will clear up my confusion I had for some time now.

thanks

secret.simon
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Re: Travelling to EU/Schengen on Travel document after Brexit

Post by secret.simon » Fri May 21, 2021 10:14 am

n8net wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 8:27 pm
but on the spreadsheet in (sheet 2. 2.Exemptions), in row 131 has all the countries that accept Refugee Travel document for visa-free entry right?

and it has France as accepting, but your list has not..am I not reading the sheet correctly or mistaken
That "Yes" is followed by a (1), which stands for "Subject to reciprocity and overall EU-UK relations".

Given that not a month ago the Royal Navy faced off against French fisherfolk off the coast of Jersey, I am not sure how that caveat would be interpreted.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

n8net
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Re: Travelling to EU/Schengen on Travel document after Brexit

Post by n8net » Sat May 22, 2021 12:04 am

are these border decisions change so quickly at the whim of any political tension?

I would have thought reciprocal is if UK accepts French issued Travel document, France would do the same and this would be enshrined in law...is that not the case?

Also, In the case of Netherlands, the Sheet says YES, but I hv contacted the Netherlands embassy who citing the below link says UK issued 1951 Blue passport *NEED* visa...

https://www.iatatravelcentre.com/NL-Net ... ements.htm


Is this all down to how border control officers and their understanding and not definitively declared so that nothing can be left to chance?

Hopeful25
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Re: Travelling to EU/Schengen on Travel document after Brexit

Post by Hopeful25 » Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:22 am

secret.simon wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 8:58 pm
According to the Wikipedia article on the Visa policy of the Schengen zone, member-states of the Schengen zone are allowed to derogate from the standard visa policy as regards refugees and stateless people.

So many of the Schengen member-states have different policies regarding refugees and stateless people being able to travel to Schengen member-states.

In the list below, the UK is an Annex II country.
According to a table compiled by the European Commission, some Schengen countries grant visa-free entry to refugees or stateless people who reside in Ireland or in an Annex II country/territory:

Austria, Cyprus, Estonia, Greece, Latvia: none
Belgium: refugees in Ireland, United States
Bulgaria, Germany, Iceland: Ireland, all Annex II
Croatia: Andorra, Canada, Ireland, Japan, Monaco, San Marino, Taiwan, United Kingdom, United States, Vatican City
Czech Republic, Malta, Poland: refugees in Ireland
Denmark, Portugal, Romania, Sweden: Ireland
Finland, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Norway, Switzerland: Ireland, United Kingdom
France: Andorra, Ireland, Monaco
Hungary: all Annex II; refugees in Ireland
Italy: Ireland, all Annex II except Taiwan
Luxembourg, Netherlands: United Kingdom; refugees in Ireland, United States
Slovakia: Hong Kong, Macau; refugees in Andorra, Argentina, Australia, Brazil, Brunei, Canada, Chile, Costa Rica, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Israel, Malaysia, Mexico, Monaco, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Palau, Panama, Paraguay, Singapore, United States, Uruguay, Vatican City, Venezuela
Slovenia: Andorra, Argentina, Australia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Brazil, Brunei, Canada, Chile, Colombia, Guatemala, Hong Kong, Ireland, Israel, Japan, Macau, Mexico, Moldova, Monaco, Montenegro, New Zealand, North Macedonia, Peru, San Marino, Serbia, Singapore, South Korea, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom, United States, Uruguay, Vatican City, Venezuela
Spain: Ireland, Taiwan; stateless people in United Arab Emirates
So, from that list, I would say that you can travel visa-exempt to certain specific Schengen member-states (Bulgaria, Germany, Iceland, Finland, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Norway, Switzerland, Hungary, Italy, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Slovenia and Croatia). I am not sure what happens if you enter another Schengen member-state not on the list above from there (such as if you enter Belgium from the Netherlands or if you travel from Germany to France, for instance).

Be aware that there are random border checks on buses at least at most borders within the Schengen Zone. I encountered border checks when traveling from Austria to Germany and Belgium to Germany, for instance (and this was years before Covid).

And of course, if you are staying in a hotel or hostel, they are (in most EU member-states) required to take down your passport details and visa/resident status. So while there may be no "border" checks, it does not mean that there are no checks whatsoever.
You can also travel visa free to Malta

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Re: Travelling to EU/Schengen on Travel document after Brexit

Post by mustafax44 » Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:52 am

Hi Everyone,

just wanted to let you guys know that for UK travel documents, all countries Schengen zone now require a visa. few countries in EU still accept visa free travel such as romania, bulgaria, cyprus and croatia. its always good to check this offcial website first before traveling to make sure no visa is required. this is the same airlines would be using to determine if a visa is needed. you wont need to call any embassy or consulate

https://www.iatatravelcentre.com/passpo ... ements.htm

n8net
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Re: Travelling to EU/Schengen on Travel document after Brexit

Post by n8net » Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:09 am

No, I do not think it is accurate, for Italy for example, it will say UN 51 UK Travel doc holders who are residents in the UK, need Visa to visit Italy..but my friend had visited without issue only last month....

I think the only way is to check with the embassy...

n8net
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Re: Travelling to EU/Schengen on Travel document after Brexit

Post by n8net » Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:24 am

talking of Embassies does anybody know what the situation with Gibraltar, is UK Travel Doc holders go to Gib I presume give it is an overseas territory and then they can go to Spain from there?

or do we need to contact the Spanish embassy for this?

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Re: Travelling to EU/Schengen on Travel document after Brexit

Post by secret.simon » Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:42 am

As I understand it, you will need to go through border and visa checks when traveling from Gibraltar to Spain. So, if you don't have a visa (if required), you will still not be able to enter the EU.

There are talks going on about Gibraltar joining the Schengen Zone, but, to the best of my knowledge, nothing has been finalised yet.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

n8net
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Re: Travelling to EU/Schengen on Travel document after Brexit

Post by n8net » Tue Jul 27, 2021 10:37 pm

thanks Simon.

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