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Us citizen Engaged to an EU citizen

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shelah
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Us citizen Engaged to an EU citizen

Post by shelah » Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:08 pm

I'm American, and am engaged to a french man. He has an EU citizenship. We are both living in the UK on visas, but mine is running out. I want to come back to england and live with him until he finishes his study here. (I need to work) After this, we want to move to the states, while I go back to school for a year, then move to France indefinitly. IS THIS EVEN POSSIBLE? When we are married, can I just get an EU citizenship and come back to the UK? How does he get to the states? Can he get dual citizenship? Can he work?
I am so confused and frustrated...PLEASE HELP! :?

John
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Post by John » Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:34 pm

Can I ask, how long have the two of you lived together .... if indeed you have ever lived together?

And exactly how long left on your visa? And when that visa was granted, how long was it for?

Your fiancé .... how long has he lived in the UK? By the way you say "We are both living in the UK on visas" but a French national does not need a visa. Please explain.

Finally at this stage, when do the two of you plan to marry?
John

amhilde
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Post by amhilde » Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:04 pm

If there is one thing Ive learned about international relationships ( and Ive been in a few) is that anything in regards to work permits and citizenship takes TIME and a concerted effort by both parties involved to long-term planning in order to be successful.

If you are coming back to the US for a year for school (why is that? a graduate program of some sort?) and if you cannot secure another work permit or special visa situation for the UK ( and I know how hard that can be and how frustrating it can be to live there and not work) then why dont you move back to the US and work here before you go to school and work on sorting out your paperwork situation for both sides. As far as Im aware, there are no fiancee work provisions for either the UK or US ( I just checked for the US the other day- if anyone find something otherwise, do let me know) like there are for Sweden (the only country Ive come accross for that). Can you not do the same course in the UK? Then you could at least work part time during term.

From the US side-

He cannot become a citizen just by marriage. Naturalization for the US is extensive and based on five years residence, as with the UK. Some of the basic rules (external to the good moral character and testing of US laws requirements as well):

An applicant is eligible to file if, immediately preceding the filing of the application, he or she:

* has been lawfully admitted for permanent residence (see preceding section);
* has resided continuously as a lawful permanent resident in the U.S. for at least 5 years prior to filing with no single absence from the United States of more than one year;
* has been physically present in the United States for at least 30 months out of the previous five years (absences of more than six months but less than one year shall disrupt the applicant's continuity of residence unless the applicant can establish that he or she did not abandon his or her residence during such period)
* has resided within a state or district for at least three months

You should read this website for more information on the process for him to live and work here prior to naturalization:

http://uscis.gov/graphics/howdoi/spouselive.htm

Before naturalization there is the green card I believe, or some sort of registration that allows a spouse of a citizen to live and work in the US. The following information is from the same US website in regards to him living and working in the US while THAT piece of paperwork is pending:

Please specially note this paragraph:

Can My Spouse Come to the U.S. to Live While the Visa Petition Is Pending?
If you are a U.S. Citizen, once you file Form I-130, your spouse is eligible to apply for a nonimmigrant K-3 Visa. This will entitle him or her to come to the U.S. to live and work while the visa petition is pending. The Form to file for this benefit is Form I-129F. It is not necessary for your spouse to obtain a K-3 visa in order to come to the U.S. to live and work. Your spouse may wait abroad for immigrant visa processing. However, seeking a K-3 visa can be a method for him or her to come to the U.S. more quickly.

From the French side of things (the Americans in France website):

French Citizenship

The process to acquire French citizenship normally takes over a year. The Labor Minister has to personally approve each application.

The process starts at the Tribunal d'Instance in the office that handles Nationalités. The woman that I talked to at the Tribunal d'Instance in Strasbourg was very nice. I just explained to her that I wanted to become French and what my situation was (married to a French woman), and she told me what documents I need to provide. Here is the list:

1. Official copy our marriage certificate - This was no problem as we were married in France.
2. Casier Judiciare - This is a document that states I do not have a criminal record. As this is something French construct that really does not exist in the US, I supplied a Attestation Tenant lieu d'extrait de Casier Judiciaire, a sworn statement I made before the US Consul General of Strasbourg, stating I did not have a criminal record. If for some reason this does not work, then you will need to make a personal request for your FBI criminal history, click here for more information.
3. Official copy my wife's birth certificate - Again no problem as my wife was born in France.
4. Official copies my mothers, father and my birth certificates - This was a bit of a problem, as we had to have them translated, signed and stamped by a Traductor Jurée (official translator). I have heard stories of people paying up to 50 euro a page for the translating of official documents. That is way too expensive as I paid 20 euro each for the translation of my documents. Shop around before having any documents translated!
5. My Carte de Sejour and my wife's French identity card - These just needed to be presented when we submitted my application.
6. Proof of residents/living together - We supplied copies of our gas and electricity bills along with a quittance de loyer (rent stubs), and our tax declaration.
7. Official copy of our son's birth certificate - This was not that hard to get as my wife had smarts enough to register our son's birth with the French consulate in Boston when he was born. If she had not done that, we would have needed to get his American birth certificate translated into French.

Two months after dropping off my application, I was summoned to the Tribunal d'Instance. I had to bring my wife along; we had to sign my request before a judge to make it official.

A few months after that, we were summoned to our local police station. This interview was to make sure that we were really living together, and that I could speak French. The interview itself was very short; the police officer just asked a few questions about where we lived and what we did. With regards to being able to speak French, I needed to be able to hold a simple conversation. Nothing fancy, just able to prove I understood what was being said.

Nine or so months after the interview, I received notice that my French citizenship had been approved, and that I had to go to the Tribunal d'Instance to pickup the official paperwork. This consisted of a letter signed by the Labor Minister stating that I had acquired French nationality.

For more info see, http://www.diplomatie.fr/etrangers/vivr ... index.html or http://www.travel.state.gov/loss.html.


Then there is the EEA family permit for the UK (from a solicitors website)-


EEA FAMILY PERMITS

Any citizen of an EU country taking up residence in the UK in accordance with EU treaty rights is entitled to bring their family with them to the UK. Family includes spouse and children under 21, and any other family members who are part of the same household and remain dependent upon the EU citizen.

How do I qualify?

All non-EU members of the family accompanying the EU citizen to the UK need to apply for an EEA Family Permit from the British High Commission.

How do I apply and do I need entry-clearance?

The application by the non-EU family members has to be made to the British High Commission for an EEA Family Permit. This permit is valid for one year.

Within the first year and preferably within 6 months of arrival in the UK, the EU National should apply to the Home Office for a Resident's Permit, and all non-EU family members should apply at the same time for five-year resident stamps to be placed on their passport.

Breytenbachs specialises in EU immigration law and would be able to assist you.

Some rules and restrictions

* All non-EU family members are entitled to work in the UK without restriction.
* Non-EU family members rights to remain in the UK are however, dependent on the EU family member continuing to exercise Treaty Rights in the UK e.g. In employment, in business, or economically self sufficient.

Does this visa lead to indefinite leave to remain?

Yes, applications for ILR may be made by all family members, including the EU citizen, after 4 years residence in the UK, provided that the necessary permissions have been obtained in the meantime.



What you need to do now is sit down, do some research on your own for each country and the UK, do some research in regards to your school requirement, make some phone calls to embassies and the like, and make some choices and decisions and plan a timeline. The more educated you are now, the less surprises down the road when it comes time to move. Also, you should be aware of potential taxation requirements, especially in regards to the France side of things- the Americans in France website should be able to help guide you on that.

Good luck- anything involving work/citizenship paperwork for any country has its highs and lows!

John
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Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 2:54 pm
Location: Birmingham, England
United Kingdom

Post by John » Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:31 pm

amhilde, a very useful post. It seems such a shame to correct one little part of it, namely :-
The application by the non-EU family members has to be made to the British High Commission for an EEA Family Permit. This permit is valid for one year.
Firstly the "one year" you mention is now "six months". That change of policy happened a few months ago. Secondly, you mention "British High Commission" but British Missions outside the UK are only known as High Commissions in Commonwealth countries. In other countries there will be a British Embassy, and there may be Consulate(s).

But thanks again amhilde ... very useful post ... particularly as regards the process of getting French Citizenship.

Shelah, it would be helpful if you could post answers to the questions I asked in my previous post in this topic.
John

amhilde
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Post by amhilde » Sat Jan 07, 2006 8:26 pm

Thand for correcting that John- shame the solicitors ( i think they were in South Africa) havent updated their website! But- these things change frequently, I guess thats why we are all here.

actually, a question for my own benefit- in regards to an EEA Family Permit, how long must one be married?

JAJ
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Australia

Post by JAJ » Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:09 pm

amhilde wrote: He cannot become a citizen just by marriage. Naturalization for the US is extensive and based on five years residence, as with the UK.
The 5 year period is reduced to three years if you are married to a US citizen. In the US only time on a green card counts and one must also be married to the US citizen spouse for three years.

The UK also reduces the naturalisation time to 3 years if married to a British citizen. More flexible than the US, any legal residence will count provided permanent residence is held on the date of application. And there is no minimum period to be married to the British spouse.

JAJ
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Australia

Post by JAJ » Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:12 pm

amhilde wrote: actually, a question for my own benefit- in regards to an EEA Family Permit, how long must one be married?
No minimum time as far as I know. Nor for a regular spouse visa. You can check further at http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk

But - if you're a French citizen (as you suggest you are) you don't need an EEA family permit. Your French passport is enough to live in the UK, although you can get an EEA residence permit if you wish.

In order to be able to apply for British citizenship, or for your UK born children to be British, you need to obtain indefinite leave to remain - normally after 4 years (possibly to be increased to 5 years soon). Getting an EEA permit at the start makes this easier, although it can be done after arrival in the UK.

amhilde
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Post by amhilde » Sun Jan 08, 2006 6:17 am

JAJ-

1) Im not French, Im an American- it was the original poster who was an American marrying a Frenchman

2) Given my current situation with a Swede, entrance to the UK (for me) on an EEA family permit may be something to consider for the future given the potential difficulties of each moving to the others homeland for various reasons (economic and language) whereas the UK would be a good middle ground for both of us to settle. Thanks for your input- its always good to have an idea of possibilities!

JAJ
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Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2005 9:29 pm
Australia

Post by JAJ » Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:19 pm

amhilde wrote: 2) Given my current situation with a Swede, entrance to the UK (for me) on an EEA family permit may be something to consider for the future given the potential difficulties of each moving to the others homeland for various reasons (economic and language) whereas the UK would be a good middle ground for both of us to settle. Thanks for your input- its always good to have an idea of possibilities!
One further thing to be aware of is that since 1 July 2001, Sweden has allowed dual citizenship without restrictions (although there are still retention requirements for overseas born Swedes).

So your partner could naturalise as a British or US citizen and keep Swedish citizenship, similarly you could become a Swedish citizen after meeting naturalisation requirements without losing US citizenship.

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